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Dell, HP neck and neck in second quarter U.S. PC shipment race; Apple slips, Acer surges

Time: 13:03 EST/18:03 GMT | News Source: ZDNet | Posted By: Robert Stein

Dell�s second quarter U.S. market share tumbled 19 percent from a year ago to 26.3 percent, but that was good enough to regain No. 1 in the U.S. over HP, according to IDC. Meanwhile, Acer and Toshiba�s market share improved in the second quarter as Apple�s slipped to 7.6 percent, down 12.4 percent from a year ago. Overall, PC shipments fell 3.1 percent in the second quarter, but that�s better than the 6.3 percent decline IDC expected. Gartner�s tally has PC units falling 5 percent, an improvement from the 9.8 percent expected decline. The difference? IDC excludes x86 servers and Gartner counts them. Gartner also had Apple gaining market share, but it�s unlikely that x86 servers are boosting the company�s share.

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#1 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 7/16/2009 2:14:25 PM

Apple down 12.4% yo/yo as compared to the larger industry being down 3.1% yo/yo

Analysts at Gartner expected Apple to gain market share, but they did not.

Analysts also predicted that the PC market in general would be down further than it was - by quite a lot, too.

The question is: "Did the down economy in general impact Apple more (due to price) than the balance of the PC industy?" or "Was Microsoft's marketing more of a factor?" or "Is Apple's market potential in light of all factors, becoming saturated?"

I do not think as a percentage of all computer sales, the increased sales of PC's, relative to Apple's poorer and unexpected performance, that netbook sales had much to do with it.

Regardless, PC sales are better than estimated and Apple will report great earnings - their margins are still there and they've been able to sustain iPhone/iPod Touch momentum despite the larger economy. That said, as Windows 7 ships and more powerful netbooks emerge parallel to more competitive consumer smart phones on top of pent up demand for new PC's, and it isn't going to be pretty for Apple in the fourth qtr, or through spring of next year.

#2 By 155468 (208.192.183.6) at 7/16/2009 2:25:30 PM

There are numbers and then there are numbers. Just ask a woman how many men that she has slept with.

also what "Pent up demand for new PC's" are you talking about?

#3 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at 7/16/2009 2:41:11 PM

#2 In the UK: "Amazon said that sales of Windows 7 in the first eight hours it was available outstripped those of Windows Vista's entire 17 week pre-order period."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8151342.stm

That kind of pent up demand. People want Windows 7 on their PC's.

#4 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 7/16/2009 3:03:54 PM

#2, I can only report what I see and count in my own company. We manufacture and sell as turn-key solutions, workstations, laptops, and servers.

Our orders have more than quadrupled and universally, people are ordering PC's with the assurance that they will be compatible with Windows 7.

Many have stated that they had Macs and that they had been down that path and wanted a PC. Small and medium sized businesses held onto PC's purchased in 2004 and through 2005. They skipped Vista in 2008 because of their concerns (FUD campaign against Vista, I reason).

They must now reset their hardware as they are five years in on most builds.

We're building as fast as we can and we cannot handle all the orders for new small networks and we are scheduled through Q1 2010. That is the demand I am talking about. Businesses call and sadly, say things like: "I've called all four numbers in our area and their telephones are disconnected. Thank God you're able to answer; can you help us?" Where we have to refer them to Dell, or HP, they have said: "We don't just need, or want computers... we need them set up and installed and so and so (customer name) said we needed to call you."

#5 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 7/16/2009 3:44:05 PM

#3: That kind of pent up demand. People want Windows 7 on their PC's.

And not for a moment did you consider that the sales numbers are more the effect of MS slashing the price. I was in no hurry for 7 even though a lot of Vista pisses me off, but I pre-ordered because it was half-price.

#6 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at 7/16/2009 3:51:11 PM

#5 Windows 7 Professional E is the #2 seller on Amazon UK. Its only 18% off.

Yes, price has something to do with it. But would they buy boatloads of Win 7 Pro if it is only 18% off if there was no demand?

#7 By 8556 (173.27.242.53) at 7/17/2009 12:00:34 AM

Our small shop has doubled the number of repairs year to date compared to last year's YTD figures. I suspect that in better economic conditions the customer would have purchased a new PC instead of paying far less to get the old one in peak condition. We mention to every one of them to consider a new Windows 7 machine in late October. Some may have even pre-ordered Windows 7, at our urging, at the low US prices that expired on July 11th.

#8 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 7/17/2009 11:27:50 AM

#7, Bobs, we actually saw higher profits in 08 as a result of the efforts businesses expended to extend the life of existing systems. Simply, there is more profit in the labor component if one's shop is well seasoned and can resolve repair issues quickly and effectively, than there is available in margins on new computers sold independent of services.

I think in each of our cases, lift was observed due to these efforts.

Interestingly, and most happily, selling hardware with services - not just set up and configuration, but baked with online/distributed and managed services, is becoming increasingly more popular - just as we had hoped and planned for.

Also happily, success in each of these areas allows for the question we look forward to: "What's next; what do we do now that we have all this in place; what can we do with all our data?" Enter enterprise software that is entirely based upon extensible objects and focus on getting usable, practical business intelligence out of it in visual, interactive forms and one enters into very productive development cycles that present a lot of value initially and opportunities to add a lot more over time."

Fuse that ongoing development with ongoing services, and IT/MIS systems managment and you have what appears to be the model we'll see as common going forward. Hardware with services, a common distributed services stack around universal messaging and collaboration and software sold as an ongoing service integrated to the previous two groups. Make all that available for business people at home, on the road, and in any office, and you can see where it's better than competing offers. Similarly, as federated services become increasingly easy to access and manage in the same context and it becomes possible for small partners to do what previously was impossible, or impractical for them, it becomes probable that more and more people will do as we have done. Life is good and one may largely ignore the risks associated with being too dependent upon any one revenue stream and as such, fluctuations in the larger economy. Simply, no matter what the customer wants or needs, one has the means to address it and make enough money to continue to grow - as customers spend less and receive more and better "stuff"

#9 By 17855 (205.167.180.131) at 7/17/2009 11:31:09 AM

I think these numbers are more relevent:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/stock_quote?Symbol=US:HPQ

http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/stock_quote?Symbol=US:DELL

For comparison:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/stock_quote?Symbol=US:AAPL

#10 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 7/17/2009 12:48:13 PM

#9, I think it is a lot more complex than that.

A lot more.

I get VERY tired of people who trot out stock prices and present them in a single context.

Does for example, Apple provide dividends to its shareholders? (NO!) Is the stock, as a part of one's portfolio to be viewed in the same context with the same goals as all others? (NO!).
Is Apple's PE relative to its forward PE an indication of how over-valued the stock is, or a measurement of how confident that investors are that with enough baked in industry cheer-leading, that it will continue to do well?

In other and equally vague words... is it all not as much faith based as anything else in an economy not based upon speci alone (currency tied directly to gold, silver, and or another precious metal) and again... is that not a good thing and as such making much more available to many, many more people?

Is not a Microsoft-like stock, not entirely different from a stock like Apple's and reflective of the balance within diversity upon which stable, yet growing economies depend?

As I said, I'm sick of the way many present things opposite this industry - nah... sad. I'm saddened by it, because too dang few people take the time to understand things.

#11 By 17855 (205.167.180.130) at 7/17/2009 1:47:14 PM

#10, I don't disagree. I personally do not care for the stock market. Unfortunately the financial world has a lot of influence and they have the ability to throw healthy companies to the wolves or prop up companies with poor/broken business models.

I work for an HP shop and HP does more for innovation in the computer industry than Michael Dell ever thought about. But the fact is Dell gets recognition that is far from justified because of their ability to make a profit.

#12 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 7/17/2009 2:02:05 PM

#11: I've worked with both Dell and HP over the past few years and I can say that, in my experience, Dell provides much better business support and flexibility than HP. With Dell, it's "What can we do for you?". With HP, it's "Do it our way at our leisure".

#13 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 7/17/2009 2:16:43 PM

#11, I surely agree with you, Sir.

The markets and policies are more than alarming to me. We're seeing gross consolidation of nearly all wealth among a very few companies, which are as much a part of government as any agency is. While equity holders of every stripe are being wiped out and undervalued properties are being snapped up for pennies on the dollar, you and I are witnessing the most rapid and prolific consolidation of wealth in the history of human kind.

Far too many that were inaccurately critical of the participation of large numbers of people in the various markets, have used clever language and fear to rob very hard working people of all they have earned, saved and invested over many decades.

Simultaneously, a tiny number of business like mine and perhaps your own, are being squeezed in the middle (some 987,000 businesses that employ most Americans and pay the majority of all taxes and fees). That middle - the professional and merchant class is being systematically destroyed and as each is sold and or taken out, that equity moves up to a decreasing number of very large corporations that if not government sponsored, are significantly controlled by the government. What will come out of it, an oligarchy, made up of a ruling class of social engineers, will live incredibly well. The rest of us will subsist and descend into darkness. If I had not already seen this sort of thing happen in this world with my own eyes, I would not believe it possible - much less in so short a time, but I did. Sadly, this time around there may not be any shining city on the hill for the world to turn to, to lead it out of the darkness.

We compete with both Dell and HP. Obviously, we lose most of the time. Sad. We surly make a better product and support them in ways neither company can touch. We do maintain that while we may not win every match, our customers win each and every time.

#14 By 4240821 (213.139.195.162) at 10/27/2023 8:28:58 AM