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ISO and IEC approve Office Open XML document format standard | |
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| Time: 12:16 EST/17:16 GMT | News Source: Ecma International | Posted By: Jonathan Tigner | ||
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The International Standards Organization (ISO) and International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) have approved ISO/IEC DIS 29500, Office Open XML File Formats as an International Standard. Approval requires at least 2/3 (i.e. 66.66 %) of the votes cast by national bodies participating in ISO/IEC JTC 1 to be positive; and no more than 1/4 (i.e. 25 %) of the total number of national body votes cast negative. Both of these criteria were achieved, with 75 % of votes cast by national bodies participating in ISO/IEC JTC 1 being positive and only 14 % of all national votes cast being negative. Open XML is a platform-independent open standard for word-processing documents, presentations and spreadsheets. The standard has been widely adopted by hundreds of organizations throughout the industry, and serves to ensure the long-term preservation of documents by maintaining compatibility and fostering continuing advances in the field of documents and information technology. Independent software vendors, including Apple, Corel, Microsoft and Novell have already shipped implementations of the Open XML standard within popular applications such as iWork, iPhone, WordPerfect, Open Office and Microsoft Office 2007.
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| #1 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 4/1/2008 12:44:56 PM |
| There is room for both formats. |
| #2 By 52115 (66.181.69.210) at 4/1/2008 1:00:15 PM |
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Microsoft zealots around the world are singing praise..
Open-source persons are cursing the ISO.. Off-topic: I just wonder how much money all this has cost Microsoft? And then also, is Microsoft going to have an "Office-Only" version in which the format will only be fully supported is you're using MS Office suites? This post was edited by Winux on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 at 13:02. |
| #3 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 4/1/2008 1:05:40 PM |
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#1: No, there isn't in this case. MS blatantly cheated, and ISO sits and does nothing. I hope the EU is watching all this play out. Microsoft's OSP is vague and does not cover any open source implementations (as per usual with MS, but for an ISO file standard?!?!?!). This post was edited by Latch on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 at 13:08. |
| #4 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 4/1/2008 1:20:50 PM |
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#2: I just wonder how much money all this has cost Microsoft?
It costs MS a lot less money than the money they stood to lose if they lost out on contracts that stipulated an ISO-approved file format. is Microsoft going to have an "Office-Only" version in which the format will only be fully supported is you're using MS Office suites? Wait & see. Office 2007 doesn't implement OOXML the way it's specified by ECMA. And due to the undocumented representations in OOXML, and the patents its encumbered with, it's likely that nobody will have an implementation as good as Microsoft's (including no open source implementattions at all because of the language in the OSP)... whoops, looks like another case of embrace, extend & extinguish, except this time MS is doing it to its own format. MS will be able to claim its file format is an ISO standard, as per gov't requirements, but nothing is preventing MS from extending OOXML any way it feels like, regardless of what ISO does. Extending OOXML will give MS an automatic advantage as it keeps its competitors scrambling to keep up. Does any of this sound like a 'standard' to you? Perhaps, 'standard' operating procedure for Microsoft. |
| #5 By 92283 (64.180.201.131) at 4/1/2008 1:34:17 PM |
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Latch ... you are not only a loser, but you are a poor loser.
The IT World is the big winner. Avoiding the crappy ODF is fantastic. |
| #6 By 23275 (68.186.182.236) at 4/1/2008 1:45:49 PM |
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What part of Microsoft's position being centered on the technical merits of the standard is not understood here?
While so many played politics (look at the countries so set against it), Microsoft stuck to the technical considerations only. That is, or should be, the posture the ISO maintains. By allowing their work to speak for them, Microsoft succeeded and in a world where standards are more important than they once were, the company and its products are evolving in a manner that is more consistent with open standards in general - as the standards themselves mature. The rules were "sort of" spelled out and Microsoft played by them and candidly, the ISO had no real choice but to follow its own example and stick to the technical merits attending the process. Many others clearly didn't and if I may offer as an opinion, it does seem that those behind ODF wanted Microsoft to obviate much of the value in its own products by adopting ODF as the standard while underwriting free office suite versions with decades of work and billions of dollars. It is clear to me that a socialist mentality drives such thinking - and I fully expect the EU to act accordingly - working to extract every dime from every private citizen and company it can - as it continues to purchase support for a professional class of elitist politicians more interested in preserving their own power and influence than they are the wellbeing of individuals. Such behavior isn't competitive and it isn't good for the majority of people living under the jack-boot of despots determined to enslave all of us. If anyone politicized the process, it wasn't at Microsoft's initiative - it was a select group of ideologues bent on destroying what should, and in the end, remained a purely technical process. |
| #7 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 4/1/2008 2:06:56 PM |
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#6: What part of Microsoft's position being centered on the technical merits of the standard is not understood here?
Funny, the past two years when I've tried to debate you on this very topic, you claimed ignorance. Suddenly you're an expert now? While so many played politics (look at the countries so set against it), Microsoft stuck to the technical considerations only. You have got to be freaking kidding me. Perhaps you missed all the stories over the past year of MS partners showing up en masse all over the world to vote in favour of OOXML? Did you miss all the stories about irregularities around the world, all seemingly in Microsoft's favour? I think you're suffering from classic Freudian projection. By allowing their work to speak for them, Microsoft succeeded and in a world where standards are more important than they once were, the company and its products are evolving in a manner that is more consistent with open standards in general - as the standards themselves mature. Nonsense. MS allowed it's money & influence speak for it, as well as untold numbers of partners and others willing to tow their line. The form letters sent out by MS to its partners is just one of many things MS has done. Gates has called Mexico and a few other countries to lobby on OOXML's behalf, ferchissakes, and yet you are trying to foist the whopper that MS didn't play any politics??? The rules were "sort of" spelled out and Microsoft played by them and candidly, the ISO had no real choice but to follow its own example and stick to the technical merits attending the process. The ISO rules are very well spelled out. What was unusual was how the rules were frequently bent or broken to the sole benefit of Microsoft. MS blatantly gamed the system and the evidence is all over the place, at least it is for those who aren't wearing Redmond-coloured glasses. Many others clearly didn't and if I may offer as an opinion, it does seem that those behind ODF wanted Microsoft to obviate much of the value in its own products by adopting ODF as the standard while underwriting free office suite versions with decades of work and billions of dollars. "Many others" gamed the system while MS played fair? Really? Can you name once such entity out of the "many", with an example of exactly how they did what you accuse them of doing? It is clear to me that a socialist mentality... blah blah blah anti-EU rant here... Yes, because the EU is all about screwing over poor Microsoft. Damn the EU!! Why can't they just ignore their own laws like in the US and leave MS alone? I've got to hand it to you, you spin as well as any of the MS people. This post was edited by Latch on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 at 14:13. |
| #8 By 2231 (72.5.151.4) at 4/1/2008 2:31:25 PM |
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Norway's yes-to-OOXML may tip the vote in favor of accepting it as an ISO-standard, but the committee chairman faxed a formal protest to the ISO.
80% of the committee voted against changing Norway's vote from No with comments to Yes. If I didn't know better I would think the voting was managed by Robert Mugabe's cadre. |
| #9 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 4/1/2008 2:40:54 PM |
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And IBM was virtuous through all of this?
Come on Latch, lobbying is part of the voting process. When the ISO shot down MS in the first vote, you were extolling them, now they’re a bunch of corrupt officials who were paid off by MS. Where is the proof of these payoffs? |
| #10 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 4/1/2008 2:52:57 PM |
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From the Brian Jones link above:
"Last year we sponsored a translator project that gave people the ability to read and write ODF files from Microsoft Office. Last month we announced that we would update the Office product so that the ODF translators could natively plug into Office and give people the same options they get from the other file formats. People will be able to set ODF as the default format in Office if that's what they want by simply installing the translators and then changing their settings." So what's the problem???? |
| #11 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 4/1/2008 3:23:13 PM |
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#9: I have no facts regarding IBM's bad behaviour as you allege during this process. Do you have any? Lobbying is certainly not part of the process, and even Ketchum knows that. And, for the record, I never called ISO anything you claim I did. ISO is a victim in all this as well, as it did not forge its rules to account for a destructive presence such as Microsoft. If you stuff committees with your own people, there are no officials to bribe.
#10: What's the problem? What's the relevance is a better question. |
| #12 By 92283 (64.180.201.131) at 4/1/2008 3:25:33 PM |
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#7 "Perhaps you missed all the stories over the past year of MS partners showing up en masse all over the world to vote in favour of OOXML?"
People VOTED!!!!!! Oh my god!!!!! Didn't they know that VOTING is wrong in the openheaded world? #8 "Standard Norge sent the proposal out for public inquiry there were 47 comments, where 38 said yes to the proposal and 9 said no." 38 to 9 in favor is not 80% against. http://notes2self.net/archive/2008/04/01/standard-norge-responds-to-allegations.aspx |
| #13 By 23275 (68.186.182.236) at 4/1/2008 4:00:45 PM |
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Latch, Socialists EEEEEE "Red Fascists" very often use subterfuge to continually hammer home their positions. So yes, sadly, I have seen and read the propaganda you elect to regard as fact. I've also read and studied the technical detail and both studies do not support what you assert.
A lot of time has passed since you began to work yourself into a lather over this issue - certainly enough time to study the matter carefully, which I have since the foam started dripping from your lower lip. I do admit that as the debate heated, your missives contributed to my interest. I chose to try and ignore the politics (not always possible) and focus on the facts. What I came away with was an understanding that it was not Microsoft that was working to subvert the process at all. Quite to the contrary, it was a mix of MS competitors, nation states hostile to the US, and socialist slavers that attempted to politicize the process. Again, focusing on the process and technical matters alone, OOXML has been adopted as an ISO. The process worked and the format is available for use. MS does not own it as they did earlier proprietary binaries. It is open for all to use. People will continue to vote with their dollars and developer energy (or not). Socialism has been defeated and free and open markets and ideas are in this context, safe (for now). Don't like it, don't use it. Use ODF if you like, I am sure if enough people do (based upon its own merits) ODF will succeed. If not, it will continue to be rejected in favor of other software. And by the by, this proves well that both closed and open SW can work well together. It also proves that at least in the minds of learned people, junk politics can be defeated. |
| #14 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at 4/1/2008 6:21:32 PM |
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Can we stop calling it "lobbying" and just state what it really is... corruption?
Whether you're for or against this, buying votes is corruption nothing less so let's not try and look at this through rose colored glasses. Congratulations Microsoft for getting your way through corruption - it seems that people's opinions on your company's practices was way off base! Oh and propaganda isn't a socialist construct Lloyd - you of all people should know that... after all, if you say something often enough people will being to believe it... at least the less educated will. |
| #15 By 23275 (68.186.182.236) at 4/1/2008 6:44:59 PM |
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#14, Hi Chris, hope you are well.
That is exactly my point. Propagandists focused on the wrong things and while they were doing this, Microsoft addressed enough of the comments made to secure enough votes to secure passage. In this case the propagandists also happen to be red fascists and or socialists with an agenda that does not include support for free and open markets - much less individual liberty. If they had their way we'd all be running open office on one version of Linux or another - but the problem with that is that none of these would likely exist, because there would be no Windows, or MS Office for them to copy from.... so what then... "Big Chief" notepads and pocket pencil sharpeners? You're right, I remember very well what socialists did for people and so do you - it wasn't pretty and it didn't smell nice and it for dang certain didn't provide much that was interesting, much less entertaining. |
| #16 By 2231 (72.5.151.4) at 4/1/2008 7:21:55 PM |
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#12 Here is the content of the fax sent by Steve Pepper:
Formal protest regarding the Norwegian vote on ISO/IEC DIS 29500 I am writing to you in my capacity as Chairman (of 13 years standing) of the Norwegian mirror committee to ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 34. I wish to inform you of serious irregularities in connection with the Norwegian vote on ISO/IEC DIS 29500 (Office Open XML) and to lodge a formal protest. You will have been notified that Norway voted to approve OOXML in this ballot. This decision does not reflect the view of the vast majority of the Norwegian committee, 80% of which was against changing Norway’s vote from No with comments to Yes. Because of this irregularity, a call has been made for an investigation by the Norwegian Ministry of Trade and Industry with a view to changing the vote. I hereby request that the Norwegian decision be suspended pending the results of this investigation. Yours sincerely, Steve Pepper Chairman, SN/K185 (ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 34 mirror committee) |
| #17 By 82766 (202.154.80.82) at 4/1/2008 7:38:59 PM |
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@Chris - so you want people to stop calling it "lobbying" and to start calling it "corruption"? Using your own definition of lobbying, the American government is then one of the most corrupt governments in the world.
America has entire business structures based around lobbying, er, corrupting government structures. Why should we REALLY care if lobbying took place? It happens all the time. Just look at the current election process in America right now with Clinton and Obama? They use THREATS and PROMISES to voters every day! In the end, PEOPLE will decide for themselves and vote one way or another. Lobbying... Google does it, Apple does it, IBM does it and yes Microsoft does it. So its nothing new at all... and I'm only talking in reference to the IT industry, let alone other industries! For me, I'm happy that OOXML has become a standard. I would be just as happy if ODF *ALSO* became a standard. To me, it doesn't really matter in the big picture. People have CHOICE. If they WANT to use OOXML then they'll use. If they WANT to use ODF then they'll use that. If they WANT to keep using the "old" Microsoft Office file formats, they'll keep using them. To me, thats the ONLY important message here. Anything else is just bloated self-importance chest beating! |
| #18 By 1896 (207.244.165.105) at 4/1/2008 8:51:21 PM |
| #17: are you so sure that people will decide who the winner is? Among super-delegates and the way the party in power, no matter which one is, manipulate electoral district etc. I do not find Presidential election to be so democratic. One person= one vote this should be the idea; 100 million people go out and vote? The first two candidates with the highest number of vots go to a second election and people vote for one or the other; this is democracy. |
| #19 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at 4/1/2008 8:57:31 PM |
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#17 "the American government is then one of the most corrupt governments in the world."
A good argument could be made there I'm sure. Do you honestly believe that America's government is somehow special and immune to corruption? Is corruption something that can only occur in non-capitalist non-democratic countries? The only reason I ask these questions is because your response seems to be one of shock, like you're surprised that someone would equate lobbying to corruption when they are in fact one and the same. "America has entire business structures based around lobbying" So I guess you answered your own question in regards to corruption then... "Why should we REALLY care if lobbying took place? It happens all the time. " So it's not corruption because it occurs all the time and for the most part it's "water off a duck's back"? Have you perhaps taken a step back and thought about why it's such an accepted practice? That perhaps it has at least something to do with the fact people call it a nicer word like "lobbying"? Heck, why don't we call it "encouraging"! "Lobbying... Google does it, Apple does it, IBM does it and yes Microsoft does it." So your argument now it that it's ok because others do it too? Interesting set of ethical values you seem to hold up. Does the "others do it too" argument apply across the board or is on only for a few select topics? "For me, I'm happy that OOXML has become a standard." That's great! I didn't mention OOXML itself in my original post, I was referring to the way in which the standardisation process was bought off and making a point that calling it lobbying is a poor excuse. Call it what it really is rather than sugar coating it - the fact that there's been a formal protest shows, once again, how unethical Microsoft is as a company and once again displays that people's opinions of Microsoft as an unethical company aren't completely baseless as the pro-MS camp would have you believe. Speaking of OOXML, it doesn't fit my definition of an international standard. Anything that isn't implementable is not a standard let alone an international standard. And that goes for any standard going through ISO, not just ones Microsoft tries to push through with purchased votes. "People have CHOICE." People have a choice regardless of it being ISO or not - unless of course there's a mandate out for any choices to be selected based on ISO status. But you know that, that's why Microsoft pushed so hard to ensure it was approved. And so they should have - it was and is in their best interests (and those of their shareholders) to do so. "If they WANT to keep using the "old" Microsoft Office file formats, they'll keep using them" If you honestly believe that then you really don't understand software in general let alone Microsoft. Microsoft, like any software company, wants you to purchase the latest and greatest versions of their software. Your choice to use the "old" office formats will be more or less dictated by the business partners you have and the software they use. Once there is enough shift to the new office formats amongst your business partners, your "choice" will be selected for you. Anyways, it's time for lunch... have a good one guys! |
| #20 By 92283 (64.180.201.131) at 4/1/2008 10:29:13 PM |
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#16 Actually, the commitee voted "no with comments' which it condsidered a condition yes.
"Standard Norge had earlier decided to vote “no with comments” even though the national hearing resulted in a clear yes. The conclusion was thus considered to be a conditional yes, which we also stated in press release August 31. 2007" Steve Pepper appears to be a liar who made up his mind a long time ago to vote no. |
| #21 By 92283 (64.180.201.131) at 4/2/2008 1:27:40 AM |
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China, Cuba, Iran, South Africa and Venezuela are among the 10 that voted against OpenXML.
No wonder kabuki and latch are disappointed. |
| #22 By 92283 (64.180.201.131) at 4/2/2008 1:30:10 AM |
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"Microsoft’s request for rapid approval of its standard in early 2007 produced an intense lobbying campaign by I.B.M. and Sun Microsystems, which had helped develop a rival interchangeable document format called Open Document Format."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/technology/02soft.html?ref=worldbusiness Be honest Kabuki. Your heroes lobbied against Microsoft and lost. You aren't against lobbying by your buddies like IBM, Sun. You are against Microsoft. Period. |
| #23 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 4/2/2008 9:57:50 AM |
| #13: That's got to be both the funniest and saddest thing I've read all week. The news has been rife for the past year with stories of MS corruption at the various NBs - to the point where the mainstream press was writing about it - but in the land of Saint Ketchum of Redmond, everyone else was dirty while poor Microsoft stayed true and fair. I don't know what to say to that. How do you debate someone who is so disconnected from reality? The hard part is trying to decide if you even believe yourself or not. Honestly, you reminded me of the Iraqi Info Minister who denied US tanks were in Baghdad, meanwhile the tanks are rolling by the camera in the background. And, please, don't use this to go off again about the red commies, evil Europe etc. in some parkkker-esque distraction technique as it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. |
| #24 By 23275 (68.186.182.236) at 4/2/2008 12:21:05 PM |
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#23, You’ve tried that nonsense before... come up with something new.
Seriously, you're going to try and tell us that the beliefs and attitudes of people, companies and governments are not factors weighing on the decisions that they make? This from a person who's "beliefs" so motivate him as to work to embarrass Microsoft and others at every turn - to achieve some larger goal.... and beliefs and ideology have no role? Most interestingly, Microsoft leveraged this so well... they drew upon the reality attending it, and then turned it - by retreating into technical detail and the ISO's own charter. It was masterful. At least give them credit for that. You don't have to like a thing about any one person or company to respect them for what they can do. In this case MS's technology was better, but so was its strategy and tactical execution - they won. Against many challenges they prevailed. Why can't you just say, "well played" and move on? |
| #25 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 4/2/2008 1:15:19 PM |
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#24: You’ve tried that nonsense before... come up with something new.
Sorry, but I'll keep replying every time I detect your usual pro-MS, anti-reality posts like the ones in this thread. Seriously, you're going to try and tell us that the beliefs and attitudes of people, companies and governments are not factors weighing on the decisions that they make? People's "beliefs" have no place in a technical committee evaluating a proposed ISO standard. Most interestingly, Microsoft leveraged this so well... they drew upon the reality attending it, and then turned it - by retreating into technical detail and the ISO's own charter. Close, but not quite right. They leveraged all right; they leveraged their partners and sympathetic companies to join the various NBS and vote based on fealty to MS and not on technical details, as you keep alleging. Genuine technical document experts all spoke out against OOXML, and only the politics of MS stuffing the NBs saved the day for them. It was masterful. At least give them credit for that. You don't have to like a thing about any one person or company to respect them for what they can do. It was certainly masterful and they have my respect. I also respect the mafia. In this case MS's technology was better, but so was its strategy and tactical execution - they won. Perhaps in all your vast research, you somehow missed that this was not about ODF vs OOXML. This was about a document format ISO certification process, and not about whether MS's technology was better or worse than anything else. Against many challenges they prevailed. Why can't you just say, "well played" and move on? Microsoft cheated, plain & simple. There were many documented instances of their cheating, and now some of the countries standards bodies, and even government minister, are asking how their respective NBs arrived at their conclusions, and whether MS acted improperly. Why can't you admit that? Of course, I already know the answer to that one. After a few years of debating you, you would sooner go to your grave than to ever publicly admit that Microsoft did anything wrong. |
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