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Microsoft witness griped when company dumped Java | |
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| Time: 16:20 EST/21:20 GMT | News Source: Reuters | Posted By: Byron Hinson | ||
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An Autodesk Inc. executive testifying for Microsoft Corp. conceded on Thursday that he had complained to Microsoft last year about a decision to drop rival Java software from its new Windows XP (news - web sites) operating system. Autodesk Chief Technology Officer Scott Borduin's admission undercut his written testimony criticizing antitrust sanctions sought by nine states against Microsoft for risking the "stable, predictable" platform offered by Windows. States' attorney Kevin Hodges cited a pretrial interview in which Borduin said the dropping of Sun Microsystems Inc.'s Java seemed designed to boost Microsoft's rival .NET Internet services software. | ||
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| #1 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 4/18/2002 5:33:53 PM |
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Bah, Sun was happy when they won the Java lawsuit which prevented Microsoft from developing the JVM.
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| #2 By 20 (24.243.51.87) at 4/18/2002 6:05:05 PM |
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What am i not getting. Including Java (any java) with Windows is stupid. Sun has a much better distribution situation and the first-run of an Applet asks a user to download the most recent VM and Sun can update it all the time without involving Microsoft.
This is better for Sun, this is better for MS and most importantly, it's better for Consumers. Java still works on Windows and Sun is in control. That is the BEST possible situation. |
| #3 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 4/18/2002 6:36:59 PM |
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Isn't this really what is important though:
"Our wholehearted support of Microsoft is grossly misplaced. This is a company that will screw anybody at the drop of a hat, golden partner or otherwise." This wasn't just some random employee to employee email discussing hypothetical or warroom-type bull--this was a CEO choosing to use a quote from one of his technical experts in an email addressed to Microsoft. |
| #4 By 5444 (208.180.245.59) at 4/18/2002 11:56:02 PM |
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Daz,
I would agree with that except. Everyone else writes a better JVM than Sun does. Hell MS JVM from before the lawsuit is still a better JVM than the one in 1.4. Although it is outdated from current java standard. El |
| #5 By 2960 (24.168.201.39) at 4/19/2002 11:01:54 AM |
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#2, you are correct and most people get this wrong.
Microsoft is NOT prevented from shipping Java, nor did Sun want Microsoft to stop shipping Java in Windows. What the whole Lawsuit was about was Microsoft's attempt to HiJack Java, and turn it into a Windows-Only technology. If Microsoft would have/would include the standard cross-platform technology that it was intended to be, there would have never been any Lawsuit, and this whole mess would have never happened. I've read so much about this stupid subject that it makes my head swim. The above is the best synopsis of this mess that I am able to assemble. TL |
| #6 By 2960 (24.168.201.39) at 4/19/2002 11:05:29 AM |
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#3,
That's not the point. No one is trying to or tried to force MS to include Java. The whole thing was about Microsoft illegally MODIFYING Java for Windows. It is Microsoft's choice whether they want to ship 'pure' Java with Windows. It is not thier choice to ship an illegally modified version of Java. Since Java is an industry/web standard lanquage/technology, it is in Microsoft's Customers best interest to include Java, the PROPER Java, with Windows. I don't have much personal interest in this either way, but so often I read where people are interpreting this whole Java mess in a completely wrong way. TL |
| #7 By 2960 (24.168.201.39) at 4/19/2002 11:10:15 AM |
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Daz,
I agree 100% ! TL |
| #8 By 2960 (24.168.201.39) at 4/19/2002 11:13:58 AM |
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KillUnix,
Are you saying that no one uses Java on the web or elsewhere? I think I would certainly have to disagree with that :) I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm just saying it is HIGHLY used on the web. Big time. Now, your little speal about Sun wanting to screw Microsoft. Well, the way I've seen it, Sun was merely trying to stop Microsoft from illegally morphing Java into a Windows-Only product by illegally modifying the lanquage to be Windows specific. I don't really have a pro or con list on Java, but I can understand why Sun would want to keep a Cross-Platform language/technology Cross-Platform. TL |
| #9 By 2960 (24.168.201.39) at 4/19/2002 11:15:53 AM |
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Eldoen,
I think I would have to agree too. I don't believe Sun would prevent Microsoft from writing their own JVM, as long as it followed the Cross-Platform rules and didn't bastardize the language in any way. This is exactly what Apple does. They write thier own JVM, but it adhere's to the standard, and thus Sun stays off Apple's back. TL |
| #10 By 2459 (66.25.124.8) at 4/20/2002 10:55:07 AM |
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Why take the legal risk of being sued again when you don't have to? Java is NOT an industry/web standard, it is a Sun proprietary standard. MS did the right thing in dropping Java. Why take the risk of again working with a company whose CEO is constantly out to get you? Sun built the technology, yet they always fall behind some other company. IBM is the current leader in Java, yet Sun never passes up an opportunity to bad-mouth IBM. They did it openly at the JavaONE conference. Sun doesn't even respect their largest supporters, and the people that can help them actually be able to do something with the platform. They screw their supporters, then get pissed when they lag behind other technologies, and they wonder why they are losing to Microsoft. Someone needs to teach Sun how to do business.
Funny how Sun sued Microsoft for a non-compliant JVM when at the same time Netscape's JVM lacked many of the same features. The only thing that made MS' JVM different was that it allowed extensions to be used by enterprise developers that knew that they would be working in an exclusively Windows environment. It traded cross-platform compatability (which isn't needed in this situation) for speed and platform-specific features. Normal Java code written for the web could still run, and the JVM was just as compliant as Netscape's and some other companies' JVMs. Microsoft didn't trick developers, and they didn't pollute the standard. Java didn't succeed on the desktop because of Sun's lack of innovation in speeding up the language and offering developers the features they desired. MS tried to do this and got sued. Even with Sun's tight control of the language, where is "write once, run anywhere" today, especially with enterprise applications? |
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