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Dell: Microsoft warnings haven't hurt Linux uptake | |
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| Time: 14:02 EST/19:02 GMT | News Source: News.com | Posted By: Andre Da Costa | ||
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Claims made by Microsoft that Linux violates its software patent have not affected sales of Linux-based hardware, according to Michael Dell. Speaking to CNET News.com sister site ZDNet UK at a conference Thursday, Dell's chief executive said his company has seen Linux uptake for servers increase faster than Windows server products, despite Microsoft's claims. "On the server side Linux continues to grow nicely, a bit faster than Windows," said Dell in an interview during the Gartner Symposium/ITxpo in Orlando. "We're seeing a move to Linux in critical applications, and Linux migration has not slowed down." | ||
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| #1 By 32132 (142.32.208.232) at 10/12/2007 2:18:06 PM |
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"Are they (Linux PCs) going to sell a lot? Absolutely not."
Big surprise. |
| #2 By 65179 (221.128.147.214) at 10/13/2007 12:04:18 AM |
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"On the server side Linux continues to grow nicely, a bit faster than Windows"
According to most organization reports like IDC etc I've seen for the last few years, both were growing but Windows Server was growing faster. Wait till 2008 and esp 2008 SBS is released. May be Dell is selling more Linux servers, but overall considering HP, Dell, Sun, IBM, Windows Server was growing faster. Sun also announced recently to sell Windows boxes. Not that I believe in Ballmer's patent crap. |
| #3 By 23275 (71.12.191.230) at 10/13/2007 1:41:54 AM |
| Shoot, we've built a butt-load and not one of them was a Dell, or runs a *nix - each is W2K3 and soon, W2K8. We have taken down about 300 *nix servers for clients - replaced with W2K3. Michael may sell em as *nix, but I bet they are taken to bare metal and loaded with W2K3 - probably used improperly and outside of a valid license. |
| #4 By 28801 (71.58.231.46) at 10/13/2007 7:49:51 AM |
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Given the tools that MS has released recently: VS2005, SQL Server 2005, the Expression Line, Silverlight, WSS and Sharepoint , and the solid performance of its Windows 2003 Server, it’s hard to make argument for another platform. These are tightly integrated products that significantly reduce the software development lifecycle.
The 2008 versions of SQL Server, VS, and Windows Server will build on these already solid products bolstering sales and driving up development community numbers. |
| #5 By 2960 (68.100.112.199) at 10/13/2007 1:33:17 PM |
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Ok, since we're talking servers, there's some people in here a lot smarter than I am on this so I'm going to ask a question...
First I'll describe my network, then get into the questions. I'm converting my network storage 99% to NAS boxes. I have two set up at this time: A QNAP TS-201 with two 320GB Drives (Main workkng NAS). A QNAP TS-209 Pro with two 500GB Drvies (Media Server). I also have a RAID-5 server running on a 2.53GHz Intel P4 with running Win2K3 Server Enterprise: 3Ware 9500S-8 Accellerated RAID controller. SIX 300GB Drives. 5 Drives configured in RAID-5 for 1TB of storage. The 6th 300GB drive set up as a Hot on-online ready spare for immediate fall-over. I like this setup because I can have TWO drives fail and not lose the server. I lose 600GB of space in this config, but it's as safe as I can be without having a backup for the server. Where the hell would I back up 1TB of data LOL Ok, just to keep the picture complete, here's the whole network: Wired Gigabit ----------------- A Desktop running an Intel E6700 with two 500GB drives & Vista (My main work machine) A Desktop running an AMD 64 4800x2 with two 320GB Drives (My dedicated Sim-Racing machine). A ThinkPad T60 The above mentioned Raid-5 Server The above mentioned TS-201 The above mentioned TS-209 Pro Wired 100Mbit ------------------ Dell 3100CN Workgroup Color Laser Samsung 2151N Workgroup Mono Laser Wireless ----------- XBox 360 ThinkPad T42 ThinkPad T21 ThinkPad T20 Desktop with an AMD 64 3500 (My guitar workstaion with Digitech GNX4 Console/workstation) Network Hardware ------------------------ Motorola 5120 Cable Modem (15Mbit Pipe, actually averages 22-28Mbit) DLink DGL-4300 Gigabit Router DLink DGS-2208 Gigabit Switch DLink VOIP Router All wiring is CAT-6 All devices are protected by a collection of 4 UPS's (Except the Lasers, obviously) The following devices that do NOT support Jumbo Frames are connected to the Router: Dell Color Laser Samsung Color Laser VOIP Router Desktop 2 (Sim-Racing Machine) The following devices that DO support Jumbo Frames are connected to the Switch: TS-201 TS-209 Pro ThinkPad T60 Desktop 1 (Main Desktop) The TS-209 Pro is my Media Server, with Music on drive 1, and Video on drive 2. It streams uPnP for the Xbox and iTunes for iTunes via the built-in TwonkyVision Server. The TS-201 is where I keep my software installers, offline documentation, images, etc... The RAID-5 is use strictly as a backup server, both automated (Vista) and manual (drag-copy and Acronis True-Image 11). |
| #6 By 2960 (68.100.112.199) at 10/13/2007 1:33:28 PM |
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Now to the questions (finally LOL).
1. I would like to know if it's possible to set up the RAID-5 so it is only powered up when needed. In other words, I'd like LAN access to it to turn it on, then have it turn off after a period of LAN inactivity, such as when backups are complete). As you can probably understand, with 6 drives, actually 7 with the 120GB OS drive, this thing is a monster that sucks electricity and could heat a small home. I actually keep it in different room than my office for these reasons. 2. I have all Jumbo-Frame supporting devices on the Switch (which supports Jumbo Frames), and all non-Jumbo-Frame equipment on the Router (which does not support Jumbo Frames. Is this the most reliable setup for networking performance? I've turned on JFS for all the devices on the switch, and it worked fine. I used 4K as it's a number that all the devices support. Jumbo frames confuses the hell out of me. Every devices documentation says you should set JFS to the same value for every device on the network. Ok, fine. Only problem is, NO TWO devices seem to support the exact same numberrs! I've read that as long as you set the value to a setting that ALL of the devices have a setting close too (i.e. 4088, 4074, which are two of my choices), then the TCP/IP protocol will handle the rest. Is this correct? Actually, though I'd still like the answer, today I came up with a reason I cannot run Jumbo Frames at all :( The DGL-4300, not supporting Jumbo Frames, would mean that while all the JFS devices can communicate ok (they are all connected to the switch that supports JFS), the link between the router and the switch is a problem with the router not supporting JFS. My main issue here would be the TS-209 Pro streaming the video and music as it has to go to the Router and out the WiFi. The newer replacements for the DGL-4300 support JFS, but I'm not buying a new router until their DIR-855 is released. After that, it will no longer be an issue. So, I guess that leaves #1 as the primary question :) Also, I still don't feel I'm getting reasonable network performance out of Vista. I've got good stuff, I've made the recommended changes, but I still feel it's not what it should be. The TS-201 taps out at around 6MB/Sec. It's an older, slower unit. The TS-209 Pro taps out at around 12MB/Sec. It's a new unit with a MUCH faster processor. Speed to the RAID-5 depends on whether I fill the RAID cards cache or not, but is generally around 15MB/Sec. Maybe I'm just asking too much... Thanks! TL Oh, and yes. This is my home/office network :) This post was edited by TechLarry on Saturday, October 13, 2007 at 13:39. |
| #7 By 32132 (64.180.198.233) at 10/13/2007 2:52:51 PM |
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#6.1 http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/29941/53/
"Below are eight steps to follow to enable Wake On LAN/WAN technology on your network. Before you start, it will be helpful to have a solid understanding of your LAN and its elements. Taking the time to map and document the details of your network will come in handy. Even a small LAN of a half-dozen nodes has numerous key details, including subnet information, DHCP settings, MAC addresses, installed OS’s, router configurations, etc." |
| #8 By 23275 (71.12.191.230) at 10/13/2007 6:08:46 PM |
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#6, Hi, TL,
Back in the day, it was necessary to segment networks physically in order to take advantage of Jumbo Frames. Today things have changed somewhat, but there are still considerations. One could partition a logical network where ystems could exchange Jumbo Frames and mark them with IEEE 802.1Q virtual LAN tags. The extended frames will be transparent to the rest of the network - allowing mixed capable/incapable devices to work without problems. The key part is using equipment that fully and properly implements IEEE 802.1Q which can support different Ethernet frame sizes for different logical network interfaces. For example, a NAS could communicate with another server or client using Jumbo Frames while communicating with other clients sitting on another VLAN or IP subnet using standard Ethernet frames - all via the same physical connection. Even cheapo routers of certain types can do this, but not all. SO.... make sure your gear supports 802.1Q to start with. So you see, the mix of gear you have can create quite a mess and slow the segments that can support Jumbo Frames. You have to be very careful about what you use and where - right down to the individual network interfaces on each host. And yes, drivers matter.... I am sure you recall when it seemed that each month some Intel NW .int driver was being updated on Windows Updates?!? Well... there was a reason and it was to be able to work with the increasing variety of device interfaces they would face. Don't be at all afraid to experiement - take down entire segments and test legs as you discover where and what is causing your own internal slowdowns. Remember, a lot of applications are the real reaon behind slow downs... so use a wide variety of them when testing each leg, segment and logical partition. Also, nail up and down different segments - for example, try a different VLAN/Switch and addressing for your communications with the NAS devices. Capture traffic with WireShark and really dig into what is going on. If you really want to attack #1, get and use MS Storage Server - you'll absolutely fall in love with it - it's baby brother, WHS sounds like it would be ideal for what you are doing at home, and you can run it parallel to a domain if you have one. If you do that, write back and I'll show you how to sleep it and idle your array most of the time. *** I bet you have one mean electrical bill :) |
| #9 By 32313 (72.27.5.90) at 10/13/2007 6:21:18 PM |
| I remember an IDC report from 2004 that said Linux would be a 35 billion dollar industry by 2008, well, 2008 isn't far off. |
| #10 By 23275 (71.12.191.230) at 10/14/2007 1:29:48 AM |
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#6, A bit more on this for you, TL,
I just did some tests on my own home NW and averaged 36.61 MB/Sec, or roughly equal to 4x Nics in each system, but where only one .int each is used. The systems involved in the test are nothing fancy at all - 1 x aging Pent D and a four year old laptop [ an NX9600 with a P4 w/HT and a few mods... 7200 RPM HDD, etc...]. Each has 2 GB of RAM and each is running Windows Vista Ultimate. The laptop was a clean install and the media system was upgraded with an intentional dirty ug from XP MCE 2005 [in place upgrade Ultimate]. Bursting is the key here - and bursting not just once, but many times during a pass, is how one can achieve similar results. Frame Boosting, is what I like to call it. Not to be confused with what 3Com does in wireless - instead leveraging cycles and bursting again and again as each new cycle begins. I copied three video files [WMV format] totaling 819 MB and copied them together in 22.37 seconds from the media system to the laptop over a wired/switched LAN. Each does support GB switching and cabling is CAT 5e. Now onto more about Jumbo Frames. To keep the numbers really ball park and basic, 1,518-byte frame sizes were designed to support a bottom end and frankly, limitations in Ethernet itself. Jumbo Frames, or extended Ethernet frames range in size from the standard 1,518 bytes up to 9,000 bytes. Where the top end is a bit under the 12,000 bytes making up the extreme theoretical limit - add servicing and headers and 9K is about all one normally can push. Vista to Vista and W2K3 SP1, or SP2 can really push this and run up closer to the 12K limit - they can scale together and request packets dig it when the responding system answers: "heck yeah, I can scale that" Back to theory... Also, as the Frame size and I/O move up, CPU utilization goes down. The percent of increase in I/O is nearly identical to the savings in CPU cost! Nice combo in Vista! Now, for most adapters, the settings addressing what I wrote about regarding 802.11Q support are worded under the advanced tab in the device manager object for the interface as, "Priority and VLAN" or similar words. Make certain this is enabled, BUT make equally certain that Flow Control is disabled. Usually the first item. Also - make dang sure that only one adapter is enabled at a time. Disable wireless adapters, for example - when not in use. Finally, under the power management TAB in the device manager for the adapter, do enable power management and do allow it to wake the machine up - these will help the machine come out of sleep and hibernate modes more quickly and as the system idles down, it will respond to network requests more quickly. It does not take much under Vista to really crank up a NW and its I/O - you can get even more out of it with some reg tweaks to the SRV Paged and Non-Paged Resource Pool settings. Don't know if you're interested in that, but they can make a lot of difference server side - especially with a 3Ware [which we use a great deal]. BTW, do the same with a *nix and you'll be lucky to sustain 6 MB/Sec on the same gear/interfaces. One does not begin to appreciate Vista until one uses something else, or suffers any OS, including Vista that does not come from the hands of good engineers. You have to remember, you're dealing with a signal and one has to address the challenge at that level - the clearer and stronger that signal is, the faster the NW can run. We're proud of our networks, and we delight when people are stunned by how fast they are. Apps love em and devs love that - makes their code look even better. |
| #11 By 9589 (71.49.188.113) at 10/14/2007 3:08:55 PM |
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Let's keep in mind, that despite Dell floggin for *nix, medium and large companies just don't buy software from their hardware vendor. So, if Dell is selling more *nix than Windows server software, it is almost exclusively to small businesses.
By the way, if Red Hat is any indicator of the above sales differential, it isn't showing up in their quarterly and yearly reports. For example, two of the last four quarterly reports yielded worse quarters than the year before. Last quarter, Red Hat's net income was around $20 million dollars while its yearly report yielded around $60 million dollars. Against the backdrop of the software industry, these are paltry sums at best. |
| #12 By 2960 (68.100.112.199) at 10/15/2007 12:53:09 AM |
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Ok....
I want a program that puts a big friggin' button on the screen that says: E N H A N C E A L L N E T W O R K D E V I C E S F O R O P T I M A L P E R F O R M A N C E You push it and it's done! I'd buy that for a dollar! TL |
| #13 By 2960 (68.100.112.199) at 10/15/2007 8:09:27 AM |
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Anyone used or know this switch well?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817111201 My 8-port only has 1 port left, and it's time to upgrade it. Thinking of going a little higher end this time. TL EDIT: Just noticed that only the top-line switch in this family does NOT support Jumbo Frames. WTH ? Ok, how about this one. Looks appealing: http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/pwcnt_2716?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd This is a web-managed switch that seems to punch all the right buttons. Not sure what there is to manage (I've never used a managed switch), but for $189 and 16 ports, it looks like a good deal. If I get this, am I in for a configuration nightmare? Anyone have experience with Dell switches? TL This post was edited by TechLarry on Monday, October 15, 2007 at 08:38. |
| #14 By 23275 (71.12.191.230) at 10/15/2007 10:52:04 AM |
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#13, Shoot, if we did that, who'd need us? ... Oh wait.... we're already doing it.... writing for Rally technologies and the extensions to the spec.
One day soon, "all" such devices will be smart and applications/SW "aware" and vice versa. For now, the harder one tries, the harder and more complex it all gets. So any such effort, has to begin with a plan/design and then lay it in one leg and segment at a time and test. Once you get a proven set of devices and parameters... order as many as you can... cuz they will change and quickly. Steer well away from the Dell switches - do get the new small business class D-Link and or Cisco/Linksys 16 adn or 24 port GB unmanaged switches. If you do get a managed switch, you don't have to do a thing [for that model], it will act as a dumb switch unless you program it. Programming is rudimentary, at best, in that class - and usually done to support multiple subnets. Unless you're going to do that, skip it. The deal is... you have to put a switch inside your router. Don't use its integrated switch at all. Use a good D-Link 16 port GB switch [they are brown (yuk) in color], but they sure do run. Basically, this means your router's built in switch functions as a distribution switch, only - better networks will have one switch dedicated to this purpose to deliver bandwidth to switches supporting NW segments. If you really want fast switching, you have to spend a mint - like 4, or 5 grand for each switch and then build a cascade for either switch and port redundancy [which is what we do in our centers]. It really stings... cost wise, but it sure is worth it. That means, two costly switches per segment. |
| #15 By 2960 (68.100.112.199) at 10/15/2007 11:52:44 AM |
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OOps....
Based on user reviews and reviews I read at networking sites, I ordered the Dell... It was on sale for $189. What do I need to worry about? TL |
| #16 By 2960 (68.100.112.199) at 10/15/2007 2:13:45 PM |
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Lloyd, you're a pretty smart guy and I trust you more than the average person, so I took your advice :)
I cancelled the Dell 2716 order and placed a new order for the DLink DGS-1216T. The only gripe I've read about this (and the other DLinks) is the fan is a bit noisy. It was more expensive ($220 vs. $189 for the Dell), but has several additional features, such as the ability to save configurations (missing in the Dell) and supports Fiber if it should ever come to that. Oddly, mWave was a good $45 cheaper than anyone else on this router. Even Newegg was $265.00. Thanks :) TL |
| #17 By 2960 (68.100.112.199) at 10/15/2007 3:04:19 PM |
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Ok, I want to expand on this section a bit:
"The deal is... you have to put a switch inside your router. Don't use its integrated switch at all. Use a good D-Link 16 port GB switch [they are brown (yuk) in color], but they sure do run. Basically, this means your router's built in switch functions as a distribution switch, only - better networks will have one switch dedicated to this purpose to deliver bandwidth to switches supporting NW segments. " I take it you mean run a single Cat-6 from a single port on the router, to say port 1 on the external switch, and plug all other devices into the external switch. Right? What I have been doing is connecting all the 100BT only devices (printers, VOIP, etc...) to the router, and all the GB devcies to the switch. I've read that some cheaper switches do not operate at full speed when mixed speed devices are connected, so I was trying to keep them separate. I take it this really isn't the case? TL |
| #18 By 23275 (172.16.10.31) at 10/15/2007 5:01:10 PM |
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#16/17, Thanks, TL - I do not take such trusts lightly - so you can be sure that we use and test the pond-water out of what I recommend here.
Yes, that D-Link is a good model. Yes, do use one dedicated line to your router and no other connections on the LAN side to it - it will work as a dist swicth, only - your switch in support of fabric for internal clients and your server(s) will all connect to the one D-Link. NEVER [no matter what who else says what] occupy the adjacent ports from the port on the uplink to the router - so if it is a 16 port switch on port 2 - leave ports 1 and 3 open around it. The switch recommended is "Port Independent" so a mix will work fine, w/o any conflicts. Let me know how it goes. This post was edited by lketchum on Monday, October 15, 2007 at 17:03. |
| #19 By 2960 (68.100.112.199) at 10/15/2007 5:56:21 PM |
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"NEVER [no matter what who else says what] occupy the adjacent ports from the port on the uplink to the router "
Now that's very interesting. I've never heard that before. What's the reasoning behind that? Oh, and If I put the router into port 1 (which I usually do), does it wrap around? In other words, should I leave ports 2 and 16 open? Thanks :) TL This post was edited by TechLarry on Monday, October 15, 2007 at 17:58. |
| #20 By 23275 (172.16.10.31) at 10/15/2007 6:11:28 PM |
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#19, Yes, it will wrap - 16 is adjacent to 1 just as 2 is.
It used to be in the days that we all used HUBS that nothing would flow up if the adjacent ports were occupied. Port Independent switching changed this.... but only a little.... yes, one could up-link and yes, it would all work, BUT... not nearly as well as advertised. You want to keep that channel clear - and you do not want packets leaking down, or up and onto the switche's back-plane. Here's how it should look< ISP <==> ISP Modem/Bridge <==> Your Router <=one patch cable to/from your switch=> Your Switch <==> Servers | Clients | Printers Keep your runs short - use the shortest possible patch cables. If you have a network printer, use a shielded patch cable [it will have thin metal strips at the connectors and usually is orange in color]. Disable any interface off-loading when using Visat or W2K3 SP1/SP2 [this is driver related]. Previously, things like this could work well for users, but not under Vista, or W2K3 - they do not need them and they really hurt performance. |
| #21 By 2960 (68.100.112.199) at 10/16/2007 8:02:34 AM |
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When you say interface offloading, do you mean offloading tcp/ip calculations to the NIC processor? I have that turned on in my Vista Desktop. I'm using Intel Pro/1000 MT adapters which are supposed to do this well...
As for the adjacent port thing, this almost tells me that the transceivers in these things are paired up, in other words two ports are being handled by one transceiver. All my cabling is Cat6. I would have to think they are shielded to meet the spec. I don't see how they can't be shielded as you need a damn crowbar to bend the things LOL I show no lost packets in my DGL-4300 statistics page. TL |
| #22 By 23275 (71.12.191.230) at 10/16/2007 9:22:04 AM |
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#21, Yes, TL. In the device manager, expand the object for the interface and right-click it.
Click on properties. Click the advanced TAB. Depending upon the adapter, and its driver, you will see many properties and options. A lot of adapters and drivers featured many features that under XP, or 2000 had some value; however, under Vista, or W2K3 Server under SP1 and SP2, these can actually harm performance a great deal. A GREAT deal. You'll have to be careful and review each carefully, and disable those related to off-loading, etc... Be sure to test before and after and with a few file types. The surest way to test is to double click network and take note of how quickly network systems are discovered. If it takes a bit, then you can be reasonably sure that the adapter and its driver have properties enabled that are an issue under Vista. Vista's stack is doing its thing, and the driver is trying to take over these processes and it slows performance to a crawl. Let Vista do it. Our tests have shown that when the OS is allowed to control traffic, that traffic moves out rather smartly. Again, be sure to test and take note of what you have adjusted. Read up on each of the features and how they relate. It can help you understand what is happening. Also, when I mean shielded, it is the actual connector that is shielded. You'll see a metal band around the connector end. This is an RF shield around the connector. Many devices, like NW printers and scanners discharge a lot of RF. Even one such interface can flood your network and even small amounts of leakage can kill performance. Most such cables are called "Foil Shielded" cable. http://www.dcables.net/browseproducts/Cat-5e-350-Mhz-FTP-Patch-Cable---3-Feet.html |
| #23 By 23275 (71.12.191.230) at 10/16/2007 9:48:10 AM |
| TL, How signal moves through a switch obviously depends upon the switch and how it is intended to be used. You are right about some, they share components and a common back-plane. The trick here is to ensure that nothing is signaling that will cause influence on adjacent channels - co-channel interference of two types - one that can throttle the adjacent port, or induce errors. |
| #24 By 2960 (68.100.112.199) at 10/16/2007 11:46:06 AM |
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I had Large Send Offload turned on:
"Enables the adapter to offload the task of segmenting TCP messages into valid Ethernet frames. Because the adapter hardware is able to complete data segmentation much faster than operating system software, this feature may improve transmission performance. In addition, the adapter uses fewer CPU resources." I turned it off. Taht's really the only change I recall ever doing, and it was a recent change. TL |
| #25 By 2960 (68.100.112.199) at 10/16/2007 11:52:27 AM |
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I haven't tested my internet speed in a while, so I just did.
You know, it's rare but sometimes you really do get what you pay for (and more sometimes :)) Last Result: Download Speed: 30928 kbps (3866 KB/sec transfer rate) Upload Speed: 2202 kbps (275.3 KB/sec transfer rate) Not bad for a 15Mb/2Mb connection :) TL |
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