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Microsoft makes a college try | |
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| Time: 12:35 EST/17:35 GMT | News Source: CNET | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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Spooked by the growing popularity of Linux and Java software, Microsoft is opening up its source code to up-and-coming programmers on college campuses. Microsoft said Wednesday that it will share with students more than a million lines of source code--the underlying software blueprint--for its .Net Internet initiative, including the code for its Shared Source CLI implementation, which takes aim at rival programming language Java. The code will be available on the Windows and FreeBSD operating systems. | ||
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| #1 By 20 (24.243.32.227) at 3/27/2002 12:48:28 PM |
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Ah yes, ever more of the yellow "journalism" at CNET.
I love how, in the FIRST SENTENCE, they reveal their bias. MS isn't spooked about anything except maybe the States witch-hunt trial. They certainly aren't spooked about Java since it's having a hard time getting off the ground. What MS is doing is doing it right from the start. They have released a framework that is what Java should've been. They're targeting academia since that's how Java got started to begin with. They're making all the right moves. This isn't reactionary, but that's what CNet wants you to believe. |
| #2 By 20 (24.243.32.227) at 3/27/2002 1:40:54 PM |
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People had a choice between C/C++, VB6, or Java. Java was almost certainly the way to go. Despite its poor performance, the cost of developing it was so low compared with the alternatives, there was no choice but to use Java.
You put up with all of Java's shortcomings because it was better than the alternatives. Now there's a clear choice, .NET. It's got all the good stuff you like about Java, but none of the shortcomings. Now there's no reason to choose anything else. .NET runs on Windows and FreeBSD (soon to include Linux and probably others), so cross platform isn't much of an issue. .NET beats the pants off of Java for performance, and .NET is much easier to work with than C/C++ and VB6. Unless you're programming games and need every last cycle of performance, .NET makes sense for everything. Although, it'll probably turn out that .NET works really well for games, but I'm not much of an expert in game development. |
| #3 By 5444 (208.180.130.201) at 3/27/2002 2:17:42 PM |
|
5,
Why go back to com write Unmanaged code for the areas that need performance, and the rest in managed code. DX9 will have .net wrappers for it. (although it will still be com based.) dx10 is rumored to be fully unmanaged code to be called from within the framework. They have showed examples where DX is running withing a form and maintaining 40 to 50 fps. So that shouldn't be an issue. The only reason for COM now is that there is tons of it implemented over the past 7 years. as the framework evolves com will just become sections of unmanaged code. If you program it that way. You don't have to worry about GUID's etc. and it is a simple copy into a folder isntall. The main issue with this format, is that you cannot run it from the internet. as Unmanaged code is considered unsafe code and won't run from the internet in the framework. so it would have to be a local install. or a trusted developer if you choose to ignore the safety features in .net. El |
| #4 By 5444 (208.180.130.201) at 3/27/2002 3:24:35 PM |
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.net isn't just about internet support.
It offers many other improvement. Namely a very much improved API. The JIT compiles down to native machine. which should help very much in performance. Rumors have that Blackcomb is to prove that, as the CLR/CLI etc is what windows will run on top of in that version. (we will see if that happens, but that is the rumors of blackcomb and the complete OS rewrite) Yukon will see the sql server move to a .net framework also. So all languages in .net will be able to write stored procedures for it. Again we will see where the performance is there. If you are writting only for the windows platform, I can see writeing only in C++ with ATL, and COM+, or (.net to com wrappers). But inherently I'd use the feature to write assymbly directly in c++ code to get that performance gain. But there is a reason MS wants to move to the .net framework. and that is to replace the current API's COM, etc to make it easier for windows maintenance. and to eliminate DLL issues. (which you can do if you load all the DLLs you need in the local directory anyway) But even then, I would use the framework for the GUI componets, and only use unmanaged code where it is nec for performance. But that is what is great about the framework. you have that option. where Java you are not given that option. Since programs of that size are Team based. You could have the team work on the GUI componets and others working on the actual guts of the program and share componets between the groups. The gui group could use the RAD componets in C# to get the base down and then call the unmanaged componets for where the speed is need. Cutting down on Developement time and costs. btw, that is what they are doing in the next version of Autocad from what I understand in reports, not to mention that you can fully integrate the GIS platforms they use now into a .net apllication. and that is TONS of data that needs to move. El This post was edited by eldoen on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 15:28. |
| #5 By 2459 (66.25.124.8) at 3/27/2002 5:58:27 PM |
| #8 VS.NET is built on the Framework |
| #6 By 5444 (208.180.130.201) at 3/27/2002 6:29:26 PM |
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Does .net fix every thing. Of course not.
But DNA is another name for COM. so what is your point in that matter. I just say use the parts of .net that make sense to use. Use older com and com+ and DNA that don't make sense to move into the frame work. But the GUI componets with RAD are greatly improved over c++ and the MFC/ATL. Not to mention the deployment issues are a great improvement. Now is it worth it to Move a program to be completely in the Framework, that is the choice of the developer, I personally view most of the improvement in RAD significant enough to look at. Not to mention cross platform distributive development within the network. COM at best was defined to be used in a Connected 2 teir network. in a 3 tier enviroment, com gets very harry to work with (DNA) but that is what the Framework was designed from the ground up to handle. as #11 states. VS.net was written entirely in the framework. part of the reason you have to load the framework before you can load VS.net. The other significant issues that the framework helps to alliviate is Memory Management issues. Which can be the bane in a large project in troubleshooting and eliminating. Does the framework completely alliviate that, no. (look at the terriamian(sp) project and you can see that memory leaks can occur, but that is because of what it allows to run within the program and the GC does get accesss ot some of those module to delete them from memory. (my understanding of the issue) But the point is, that even those programs you listed can benefit on different layers of the platform. MS understood that there are times when the framework would be a hinderance and allows for Unmanaged code to exist. hell, if you want they even allow the C programmer the option to program entirely and compile to native code. All I am saying is use the strengths of both. In this day and age to get a product out the door, to make money. Use unmanaged code for the areas of the project that really need it. (graphics manipulation is one area I can think of) And use the framework for the other areas it is optimized for. El |
| #7 By 5444 (208.180.130.201) at 3/27/2002 6:58:28 PM |
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I guess the biggest test would to write a direct x program:)
http://sunlightd.virtualave.net/Windows/DirectX.NET/ tomake direct x 8 into a manage library. from com to .net. one could write a program in visual c++ with regular direct x and a visual c++ managed or better yet, c# or visual basic or even jscript in .net. or any of the other 20 plus languages and test to see if it makes a big difference in frame rates etc. El |
| #8 By 2459 (66.25.124.8) at 3/27/2002 7:28:30 PM |
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#14 If MS wanted to make their own hardware to run Windows like Apple does with MacOS, they could have done this long ago. NT has run on several platforms in the past, and could easily be made to run on whatever MS wants. The platform choice, however, is theirs, not yours, mine, Intel's, or AMD's.
.NET being able to run on multiple platforms is a good thing because it eases portability for those desiring it, and enables users to access similar features/functionality on any device that can host the framework. Even if MS made their own hardware for the purpose implied, it would still have to gain consumer acceptance. There is nothing sinister behind the design, however, MS doesn't owe it to anyone to keep Windows on X86. They make the software and it is their choice as to what platform to target. And how has Windows not been available to AMD and Intel in the past? I am currently running Windows on an AMD T-Bird 800 and have other computers running on Intel chips. This post was edited by n4cer on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 19:31. |
| #9 By 5444 (208.180.130.201) at 3/28/2002 4:10:52 PM |
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#18
I am going by what MS said at the VS.net Release show. I will look into it more. I know the compilers are programmed in c sharp for inatance. much the same as the Mono C# compiler is programmed in c# and is entirely self hosting. They said at the show that Most of the IDE was programmed in the framework. El |
| #10 By 2459 (66.25.124.8) at 3/28/2002 5:16:30 PM |
| I was also going on MS statements, but I am in error regarding the IDE. I apologize for my mistake. There are, however, a number of assemblies included with VS.NET and the .NET Framework that are managed code. One of the easiest checks for these is the version of the assemblies matches the version of the Framework installed. |
| #11 By 2332 (129.21.145.80) at 3/29/2002 12:44:49 AM |
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VS.NET consists of both managed and unmanaged code.
The current release of the .NET Framework doesn't support enough of the API to make Win32 irrelevant, but that *is* the eventual goal. One, maybe two Windows releases from now, Win32 will be legacy. That's the plan. |
| #12 By 2332 (129.21.145.80) at 3/29/2002 12:45:32 AM |
| One other thing to note is that all of ASP.NET is written in managed C# running on the CLR. |
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