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Gosling on C#, why X Windows sucks, and asparagus | |
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| Time: 00:00 EST/05:00 GMT | News Source: The Register | Posted By: Todd Richardson | ||
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Java creator James Gosling was wearing a custom-made T-shirt for the opening day of the JavaOne show in San Francisco, a blue number which features Duke the Java mascot surfing across a watchface, trailing behind him what appears to be a bunch of blue asparagus. | ||
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| #1 By 2332 (129.21.145.80) at 3/27/2002 5:51:59 AM |
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Bwhahahahaha!
I wonder how many Java zealots out there just ate that baloney up. Nothin' creative huh? Wow... *cough*... talk about the crack baby calling the crack whore a druggie... wait... that's not the right analogy. Anyway... here is a good article: http://www.angrycoder.com/article.aspx?cid=1&y=2001&m=12&d=19 And here is a more technical article that discusses the reality of some of the baloney vomited forth by the one-trick-pony Gosling. (I *had* respect for Gosling before the Register's interview... man, what and arrogant fool.) http://arstechnica.com/paedia/n/net/net-1.html The funny thing is, even *I* could rebut most of what Gosling said fairly easily... which means that Gosling is either living in ignorant bliss, or he is a liar. (Or, rather, an extreme stretcher of the truth for the purposes of deceiving others.) Gosling, and whoever designed EJB, should be put on an island and left to eat each other. |
| #2 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 3/27/2002 11:29:51 AM |
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Blynk - Nobody is arguing that Java wasn't a step in the right direction. The problem Java faced, however, was Sun's overwhelming control and desire to make it into an anti-Microsoft solution.
If they'd been more open with it, it may have stood a chance. "it disgusts me to come here and see people stupidly ripping on stuff just to seem "in"" I don't think that's why. I've not been a fan of Java since it first came out, for a variety of reasons. Although I have always thought the grammar was cool, just wished it had been better implemented and not so hyped up. |
| #3 By 20 (24.243.32.227) at 3/27/2002 3:25:02 PM |
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Microsoft didn't copy the Java syntax because they thought they could make a better java. They copied it because they wanted the Java syntax, but couldn't call it Java.
It's a direct copy and that's the point. Microsoft loved Java in the beginning. They thought it was a great idea (and it was) but they thought there was some trouble in its implementation. That is, it didn't give developers choice. A Java app HAD to run on any platform period -- no flexibility. Microsoft hated this and thought that if developers knew their program would only run on Windows, why not take advantage of Windows advantages (or Solaris advantages, or Linux, or BSD, etc)? MS got into a big mess because Sun had no vision and MS set out to produce their own Java with much more flexibility. What .NET is is Java with flexibility and vision. MS took Java to the next level, a level Sun could never figure out. Now Sun will sue, sue, sue until they're out of business and blame MS for everything under the sun (get it, sun). When will MS' competitors ever learn? It's so obvious to me. MS innovates, but rarely do they come up with sometime from scratch. Usually it's taking existing technologies and maximizing them and catapaulting them to the next level. MS basically does what its competitors seem unable to do. |
| #4 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 3/27/2002 4:17:01 PM |
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Another interview with Gosling: http://www.fawcette.com/reports/javaone/032602/Sun_Briefing/
He's claiming .Net is Microsoft's attempt to catch up with J2EE. Which is interesting because J2EE was Sun's attempt to catch up with Microsoft COM/DNA. |
| #5 By 2332 (129.21.145.80) at 3/27/2002 5:33:18 PM |
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OK.... *cracks knuckles*...
#3 - If you were a more "regular" reader of these boards you would have seen me defend Gosling on multiple occasions. I attacked him on this occasion because of my disgust for his arrogance and propagation of misinformation. "...what is wrong w/ Java or EJB (Enterprise Java Beans)." Well, for starters, it sucks any hope of scalability from a project. Please, find me a SINGLE project that uses EJB and is even mildly scalable. EJB creates projects that scale about as well as VBCOM+ASP, but are marketed for solutions that demand much more. I've written MANY applications that followed J2EE and that used EJB, and while some of my pure J2EE apps ran quite nicely, the EJB solutions consistently failed performance wise. It's a case of a design paradigm taking precedence over reality. In an effort to achieve some kind of holy-grail of OOP and modular design, EJB makes it nearly impossible to create useful applications. I didn't elaborate on my comments originally because I was both in a rush, and have comment on EJB and J2EE extensively before. "...If it wasn't for Java, we wouldn't have C#." Why? C# is a language based off C++ just as much as it's based off Java. In fact, I would say it's *more* based off C++ than Java. Consider that C#'s features (with the exception of indexers and attributes) all existed in C++. Many of them (indexers, attributes, operator overloading, unsafe code, etc) didn't exist in Java. "...but Java really did drive the MS developers to develop a robust managed platform for RAD development." Read "Breaking Windows" by David Bank to discover the real motivations behind the creation of the .NET Framework. You are incorrect. "Second, do you even know a damn thing about EJB. Again its was one of the first in its class. ... Again, this was simply a step in the right direction." EJB is not a server side scripting language. It's a way of encapsulating the data tier into objects, and treating data as objects instead of relational rowsets. It attempts to solve the problem of using a relational database to solve hierarchical problems. So, yes, I DO know a lot about EJB. How many solutions have you built with it? "u make stupid-ass comments like "Gosling, and whoever designed EJB, should be put on an island and left to eat each other"..." Perhaps somebody needs to check their humor-detector more often. It was a joke. #6 - "And just how many programming languages have you authored that are currently used by more than one million developers?" Ah, argument from authority... yes, a wonderful logical fallacy. Couldn't it also be possible that the very *reason* that Gosling is either staying ignorant or lying about .NET is because he has such a great ego-stake in his accomplishment? Just as some scientists become overly attached to their theories, some programmers become overly attached to their creations. |
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