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Vacuous Vista versioning | |
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| Time: 00:34 EST/05:34 GMT | News Source: Macworld | Posted By: Andre Da Costa | ||
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The scene opens at MegaTech Solutions, a local reseller of Microsoft Windows- and Vista-compatible computers and software, including the Windows and Vista OSes. Join us now as we listen in on a conversation between a customer and a MegaTech salesperson… | ||
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| #1 By 13759 (71.196.228.57) at 5/2/2007 9:01:14 AM |
| As a Mac bigot, I must disagree with this well written and 100% accurate article pointing out the differences between common sense marketing and Microsofts continuing saga of foolish greed. |
| #2 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 5/2/2007 9:28:32 AM |
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Salesman: “Yes, eight—Windows Vista comes in Starter, Home Basic, Home Basic N, Home Premium, Business, Business N, Enterprise, and Ultimate editions.”
Customer: "Ahhhh. You are a moron. Didn't you here me say "Hi. I’m interested in upgrading my home PCs to Windows Vista." Customer: "Clearly I have no need for the Business Editions. I guess you are a moron Mr. Latch. I think I'll shop elsewhere." |
| #3 By 32313 (208.131.186.18) at 5/2/2007 9:57:16 AM |
| If you have a PC running Windows 98, its likely possible that it can't even run Windows Vista. I have to agree though, Microsoft needs to cut down the editions, to three, with Windows Home Basic as the new Starter edition for emerging markets. You can then have just Home Premium and Business editions. The Ultimate edition functionality could then be a product by itself users can optionally purchase. (Plus!) |
| #4 By 8556 (12.207.97.148) at 5/2/2007 10:49:54 AM |
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The article is a pointless waist of data bits. Any Microsoft Partner that knows what they are doing will intertwine questions about the customers existing PC's hardware into the conversation. If not, a potential sale of hardware upgrades has been thrown away for another person or company to pick up.
I had one customer tell me that he didn't want the "eye candy" of Vista in a new PC he ordered. I installed Vista Basic. Basic is close enough to XP, Home or Pro, in function that he has had no problems running it and is happy. |
| #5 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/2/2007 11:14:22 AM |
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#4, I love your posts and down to earth, practical approach to business!
You point out - again - why our industry bloggers and press miss the point - they don't sell to eat - they don't build to eat - they don't support to eat. They jabber, intentionally confuse and leave a mess for people that crawl around under desks on filthy floors to clean up. Notice I didn't opine in regard to "journalists." Journalists get to the bottom of stories - they'd ask guys like bobsireno what his experiences were and what he saw, smelled and ingested while on the job [ya'll know how lousy you feel when you've inhaled and ingested a few pounds of fuzz, dust and God only knows what when you take out old systems to put in new ones]. We need more journalists talking to more people in the field and far fewer blogs. |
| #6 By 8273 (131.107.0.105) at 5/2/2007 12:23:27 PM |
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Anti-MS people: You don't give us a choice. I don't need all the stuff included with XP, you are forcing me to take Windows Media Player, all this stuff is bloat. This will just drive more people to OSX or Linux.
Microsoft: Fine, we will give you a choice, buy the version of Windows that you want that includes different features, has different hardware requirements, and different pricing. Choose what is best for you. Anti-MS people: 8 versions, why so many choices. You make it hard to decide what I want, I can't wrap my head around making such a complicated decision. I am switching to Linux and this will just drive more people to OSX or Linux. Over and over again it is the same thing: MS ships too often, MS ships not often enough. MS doesn't give a choice, MS gives too much choice. MS is trying to destroy OSS by not releasing any source code, MS is trying to destroy OSS by releasing some source code. The Windows UI is complicated and hard to use, let's copy the entire Windows UI right down to using the same bitmaps/Icons. Etc, etc, etc. Come on MS haters, at least try to decide on a consistent message. |
| #7 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/2/2007 3:06:46 PM |
| #6: The thing you fail to grasp is that anti-MS people aren't the ones complaining about choice personally, they're saying too much chit will confuse the average user. Believe it or not, people can actually have opinions on things that don't really affect or concern them. I think I could probably figure out which Vista edition is *best* for me (hint: none of them), but that doesn't prevent me from commenting on how too many product editions may confuse the average user. Note the distinction. Or not, if you're looking to just ramrod some stupid point home for partisan reasons. |
| #8 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/2/2007 9:16:15 PM |
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#7, C'mon Latch, please give people some credit.
How many versions of Vista does a consumer see - at retail, or online? Four, from left to right. Basic on the left, Ultimate on the right and a simple, clear decision reflected in the middle - one is a home user, or a business user. Basic | Home Premium | Business | Ultimate. The packaging is clear. The wording is clearer and a table reflects the differences between each version and it this is present on the back of each version. The shelf display, and or end-cap or stack-out features a guide explaining each version, their features as well as what the types of users they are best suited for. I think some are suggesting that Microsoft's SKU's are all about choices for the sake of choices alone, or they are diven by a desire for more revenue absent any other intent. Clearly, businesses do not need or want to manage all the media features in Home Premium, or Ultimate and as clearly, features in the business edition are not relevant to most home PC users. In each case, it comes down to whether enhanced media features are needed or desired. The lineup suggests "appropriate choices" based upon three simple groups: Home, Work, or Both - while basic offers all XP Home did and much more - both functionally and visually. At its worst, Vista's version options are no more complex than XP's are - and naive users opposite XP would be as unlikely to understand the differences between XP Home, Pro, Media Center Edition and Tablet PC Edition, as they would be any material differences among Vista versions. I assess you and others have chosen to intentionally obfuscate what consumers and SMB customers understand about Windows Vista - based upon your own partisan agenda. I support this by offering that users of Microsoft software are unlikely to patrol a *Nix centric site - hosing people down with unhelpful and largely irrelevant commentary. That said, I do look forward to your posts - they reflect passion and on occasion, conviction. |
| #9 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/3/2007 8:23:22 AM |
| #8: And for my mother, for example, that would be about 4 editions too many. People don't mind choice when they have a clue about what they're choosing. She would be upset if she only had 4 colour swatches when picking carpet, but don't ask her about which software edition she needs because she just doesn't know or want to know. And you can't depend on salesdrones as they may steer the clueless towards Ultimate to inflate their sales totals or whatever. |
| #10 By 3746 (216.16.225.210) at 5/3/2007 9:14:08 AM |
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#9
So you are blaming Microsoft for the fact that some people don't have a clue when they go out and buy something. If you walk into a store without a clue and some scuzzy salesperson sells you everything and the kitchen sink that is not MS's fault. It is your fault for not being an informed shopper. Like lketchum said MS is damned if they do and damed if they don't. I can't see how you think that having a choice is bad. If MS had one SKU at 200 bucks you would be biatching about how you have to pay for things you don't need or want. This post was edited by kaikara on Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 09:14. |
| #11 By 13030 (198.22.121.110) at 5/3/2007 9:19:46 AM |
| There are too many editions when you have to consult a features matrix to know which version you should buy. |
| #12 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/3/2007 9:46:56 AM |
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#9, Yes, Latch, but you're forgetting one very important part of the equation - the ecosystem that Microsoft evolved and supports across its base of partners, ISV's, OEM's and MCP's - even its detractors, like yourself.
Most simply, you're forgetting that your Mom would simply call you and ask what she should do. Microsoft has never stated that it does not depend very much on the ecosystem surrounding its products - quite the contrary, it speaks to the necessity and strenghth of that ecosystem all the time - and like it or no... it does include guy like yourself. ***and if you say that your Mom is running Linux, no one will believe it - not even we Awin'ers would believe you could be that mean. |
| #13 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 5/3/2007 10:23:28 AM |
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#11 I'm sure the same people you think can't choose between 3 different home versions of Vista have the most awful time shopping in a grocery store or a home entertainment store.
Consumer: Help me! I can't choose. 200 kinds of soup. Who cares if there are labels. Arggh. My brain can't function." |
| #14 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/3/2007 11:43:22 AM |
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#10: Are you f*cking stupid or something? For the zillionth time, I'm not blaming anyone for anything. TRY TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE:
"TOO MANY PRODUCTS EDITIONS MAY CONFUSE THE AVERAGE USER" Let me decode it for you since plain English apparently baffles you. What I'm saying is that I have an opinion that too many product editions may confuse the average user. That means the average user may be confused by too many product editions, in my opinion. Is there some other way for me to say it so you can finally understand???? #12: And why would my mom call me for advice on which Vista edition to buy? Might it be because she's confused by the different choices of product edition?? Perhaps??? Game, set, match. |
| #15 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/3/2007 12:02:54 PM |
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#13, I'm in that category.
When I came back to the US after many years, I was a mess when it came to shopping for even basic things - still am. I was used to walking to small stores and choosing among a very few product options in each category - like three. Back in the states, and it's worse now, I was like a stunned mullet <a fish, whacked on the head> in a store. I looked at the endless choices among simple items - soap, toothpaste and other sundries and then enter some odd, stunned state of incapacity. On the very rare occasion that I do go into a grocery store, or drug store, it is for some very specific item - the finding of which can take some time. Most thankfully, my wife does that for me and is a constant companion and assistant - never more than a few feet away. My best friend past last month, and his wife was like that, too - we each had/have magic desks, tables and drawers, upon which [without asking] whatever we need/ed would appear - seemingly from thin air. At his funeral, one of those who spoke for him recounted that he could perform acts of magic - simply by sitting down at a table - objects would appear and disappear like magic. Reflecting upon this, I realize that there has to be something to what some are saying about there being too many choices for some users considering Vista - but have to conclude that by design, users are well served by the ecosystem surrounding Vista and while it will never be as effective or intuitive as the great wives many of us have, the guidance and help, I submit, is more than good enough to help people make a decision about which to buy. For our customers, we decide for them - and they trust us to do what is not only best for them, but what is right - balancing value and features appropriately. #12, Yes, of course it would be - which supports my assertions regarding the need for and efficacy of, the ecosystem Microsoft built around its products - which also explains why Apple has done less well - all is unto Apple alone and there is no ecosystem. Comparing the two is relevant, but the context is no where near the same and the numbers suggest [strongly] that far more people have benefitted by virtue of Microsoft's model - including all of us within the ecosystem they so often refer to. |
| #16 By 32132 (142.32.208.234) at 5/3/2007 12:05:34 PM |
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#14 "And why would my mom call me for advice on which Vista edition to buy?"
Because she was feeling masochistic and wanted to be insulted? |
| #17 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/3/2007 12:17:42 PM |
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#14, #10: Are you f*cking stupid or something? For the zillionth time, I'm not blaming anyone for anything. TRY TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE:
Latch, that is just "Bad Form" - you can't ignore the evidence, or the validity of what Kaikara said. Microsoft's model is effective - however dependent upon its partners it may be. It is dependent, but that is by design - so which may I ask is best? Given how many millions are employed because of Microsoft's work and model, I strongly agree with Kaikara's conclusions - using my own dependencies, albeit in different areas, as evidence of that. Microsoft's model works for exactly the reasons other models do not do as well as they do: 1) Apple's all unto Apple model excludes others [ask TL what happened to him and others?] 2) FOSS/OSS provides an inconsistent and horribly confusing alternative against which there is no one to hold to account - and free and open community help ain't gonna roll to Mom's house and un-frac her system. Oh, and everyone here can see how you broad brush on one hand, and then become uber selective on the other - when it serves your argument - adding personal attacks and insults to that less than effective strategy is just, as I said, "Bad Form" and it deafens people to what might otherwise be good points. |
| #18 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/3/2007 12:55:22 PM |
| #17: I lost it with him when he trotted out the strawman. And you're right. I can't ignore his evidence since I basically agree with him. Caveat Emptor. I don't really understand where you're going with the rest of your post as it didn't make much sense to me in the context of MS offering more choices than the average user may be able to effectively handle. Lastly, I don't mind being lumped in with the rest of the AW broad-brush crew. Because, clearly, the evidence points to the majority of people in this forum doing the same thing when it suits them, yourself included. |
| #19 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/3/2007 1:35:18 PM |
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#18, Okay, let's try it this way - let's say I am a new user and you are going to guide me - and you advocate Linux and I am going to use the system personally [you better say Xandros, and not Ubuntu, or I'm walking - kidding, of course.
Let's do an exercise to help illustrate my point [that Microsoft's ecosystem works better than a single offerning or packaging of any type]. The only thing I do know [in this example] is that a) I want a laptop for personal productivity use and rich multi-media [DVD's, AVI, MPEG, H.264, WMV, FLASH]. Now, help me out and tell me exactly what to buy and what it will and won't do out of the box. Thanks - this could be helpful. If you do help me, you'll be doing exactly what the ecosystem Microsoft built by design does and obviate, or render irrelevant, my lack of product knowledge and inability to pick a brand of deoderant on my own. You're right about all of us using a broad brush from time to time - expect in one fundamental way - we more often choose a color that does not, by apparent intent, seek to hurt, or offend one's eyes. I guess it is just a difference in debate styles. |
| #20 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/3/2007 3:03:04 PM |
| #20: I don't know. I don't claim to be able to adequately answer that. Grab a new Dell with Ubuntu (whenever they hatch) and you'll be good for all of that except for the proprietary MS bits. If I understand you, what you're saying is that too much choice for the average user is OK because they will invariably have an informed relative to help them? |
| #21 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/3/2007 6:25:09 PM |
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#20, Oh wait... I read that Ubuntu CAN'T play DVD's or AVI's and worse, due to licensing, no such distro out of the box can play my DVD's - worse yet, if a distro does have commercial DVD playback software, it violates the GPL and the "Spirit" of FOSS - is that true.
I also read that Windows Vista plays DVD's natively, because Microsoft licensed the required decoder and put it in the new OS. No, Latch, I am saying that the ecosystem around Microsoft software - you know, millions of partners, developers, ISV's, OEM's and MCP's all contribute to the effective and beneficial use of computers - which very often does include relatives. By as my AMBer guide, please explain why Ubuntu won't be able to play my DVD's? |
| #22 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at 5/3/2007 7:59:25 PM |
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#21 "please explain why Ubuntu won't be able to play my DVD's?"
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats |
| #23 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/3/2007 8:28:36 PM |
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#22, Natively, Chris, natively... remember the rules, it has to stand on its own.
Jim Lynch gave Ubuntu a ripping 1 out of 5 stars - calling it, "Crappy Cow" according to some who shared his review, http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2124099,00.asp |
| #24 By 20505 (216.102.144.11) at 5/3/2007 9:33:13 PM |
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Gentlemen,
You are all missing the point! MS makes multiple versions because multiple versions make MS $$$$$. Don't believe it? Check out their last quarter profit$. MS is in business to make MONEY. They do this very well. Software is a secondary concern. Repeat the mantra - prrrrrofit$$$$ - prrrrrofit$$$$ - prrrrrrrofit$$$$. |
| #25 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at 5/3/2007 11:33:29 PM |
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#23 You didn't ask why it doesn't play DVD's "natively" - in fact the only time you mentioned the term was in regards to Vista, but in any case that page has the information on it as to WHY it doesn't handle them "natively".
And I didn't realise we were playing by any set of predetermined rules - maybe you'd like to make those clear - there's plenty of things which one OS can do out of the box that the other can't. e.g. I can develop applications right out of the box with Ubuntu - can't do that in Vista. So what? The important thing is whether or not the capability is available at all. Playing DVD's in Ubuntu is a matter of several mouse clicks and you know what... I think the guys at Dell will click on those options before selling you the pc so that by the time you get home and plug it in... it was play those DVD's "natively". They might even install OpenOffice and the like on there so that newbies have everything all ready to go... I know it's a little out there, but that's the sort of thing a company like Dell might do, rather than just installing the base image and leaving it as is. As for Jim's review - he actually gave it 4/10 (2/5) which whilst not spectacular does say something about your quickness in trying to find any evidence at all to quickly dismiss a potential competitor to Microsoft (regardless of whether or not in reality they are a competitor in any sense of the word). |
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