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Goodbye, 'Vienna,' Hello 'Windows 7' | |
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| Time: 15:25 EST/20:25 GMT | News Source: ZDNet | Posted By: Andre Da Costa | ||
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First off, it's time to stop with the "Vienna" stuff. Those in the know need to start using "Windows 7" to refer to the next full-fledged version of Windows client. (Why 7? I guess because it follows NT 6.0?) Not so coincidentally, numbers are back in vogue — like they are on the Office side of the house, which, as Microsoft watchers have known for a while, is working on "Office 14" (not "13" — bad luck), the next version of Office. | ||
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| #1 By 32158 (130.13.159.43) at 2/2/2007 11:25:07 PM |
| I was thinking this same thing today. Naming your product after the year it's released dates it just like a car. Also, it limits greedy companies like Symantec to only one release a year. If they numbered their products, we could have 3 different NIS versions in one year. Yay! |
| #2 By 61 (72.64.142.151) at 2/2/2007 11:55:18 PM |
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Office has always gone by it's actual version number during testing.
Also, Vienna is most likely NOT NT 7.0, probably more like 6.1 or 6.5, or something. |
| #3 By 2201 (86.27.87.88) at 2/3/2007 2:55:09 AM |
| #1 I'd be seriously worried if there were 3 major versions of software in a year! I agree with the year thing dating software quicker, but then I suppose they don't want to confuse people with version numbers (which is the latest version?) and all that. |
| #4 By 2459 (69.22.113.215) at 2/3/2007 7:57:56 AM |
| Not that it couldn't have changed, but "Vienna" is supposed to be the next major release of Windows. "Fiji" is supposed to be a point release (Vista R2, IIRC) that comes before Vienna. |
| #5 By 61 (72.64.142.151) at 2/3/2007 8:28:29 AM |
| Year numbering, I'd say is the best. |
| #6 By 32313 (72.27.2.168) at 2/3/2007 2:56:30 PM |
| Hey n4cer, Fiji is the codename for Service Pack 1 for Windows Vista. |
| #7 By 17996 (66.235.19.95) at 2/3/2007 3:22:02 PM |
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MS has never said what Fiji is supposed to be. For quite a while I heard that it was akin to a Media Center 200x release -- same base OS, but a few updated apps. Only recently have I heard rumors that it's SP1.
Regarding version numbers. Personally, I think the final name of a product should include its version number--no year. Vista --> Windows 6.0. Server 2008 --> Windows Server 6.0. However I don't like hearing that the Vienna code name is being dropped. Sure, Windows 7 is a fine final name. But I think it's too soon to force that version in stone. It takes MS years between major versions (NT4=1996, NT5=2000, NT6=2006). Can we really expect Windows 7 to be released before 2010? Having a version-less code name is good because it lets you be flexible. However it can also be bad. Originally Blackcomb was NT 6.0 and Longhorn was a 5.x release. If they would've just called it Windows 5.5 it hopefully would've prevented some of the feature creep that led to the reset and the long delay. |
| #8 By 2960 (24.254.95.224) at 2/3/2007 3:57:26 PM |
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I dropped $400 on Vista Ultimate today. I don't want to see any new windows versions for a good 10 years, thank you :)
Man, that was like making a car payment! TL P.S. Where the hell is my DreamScenes! I want my DreamScenes! |
| #9 By 61 (72.64.142.151) at 2/3/2007 7:29:36 PM |
| TL, yeah, I was disappointed when on launch day all I got was a Texas Hold'em game and an enhancement to Bitlocker and EFS... not that I would have used DreamScene for more than a few days, but still, would have been nice to "Aaah" over for a that amount of time. |
| #10 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 2/4/2007 3:11:44 PM |
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#8, TL, Yeah, it's a bruiser of a price, but it's nice to have ready access to all that Vista can do.
There are some resources supporting Windows Vista Ultimate Extras - first the blog for Ultimate users, http://windowsultimate.com/ and a page devoted to Ultimate Extras, http://windowsultimate.com/blogs/extras/archive/2007/01/07/windows-dreamscene.aspx On your system at, c:\Windows\Performance\WinSAT\winsat.wmv which will open in a separate window and then media player, is a short test video that some speculate are DreamScene test vids that may have been intended to support it. There were some betas posted for a while, and properly removed - as they violated the beta agreement. A lot of people expected DreamScene to be released at midnight the day of the public release of Vista and just as many were disappointed when they weren't. A lot of finishing parts seem to be late - evolved drivers, for example and conflicts between what companies like AMD/ATI have published as release drivers and what Microsoft has on Windows Updates. These later, unfinished bits, are worrisome to me - WUP for example, continues to press users to update an ATI driver... and then it promptly advises that the version installed is newer - which it is. One then has to ask, why is WUP trying to force an "important" update in the first place? There are other areas like this and while the OS is performing well, there are still some important areas that need to be improved and very quickly. Some are fundamental - like the ATI driver and WUP, and others run the risk of suggesting less value than people expect - DreamScene's lack of availability at launch, being among them. What I am seeing has resulted in more than just a few questions. There is an answer to these questions and I think it is the development process - efficient, yes, but it doesn't support anything exciting anymore... people see all there is very early in the cycle and when things like the new windows update don't work, or the few "extras" we know of don't ship, people lose interest. I know that I risk being called an MS apologist [again], but I really think a lot of dev houses let themselves and users of Vista down. I think many of them could have done a lot more to "get ready" for Vista than they did and I think this taxed Microsoft a great deal. That's what it feels like - I mean, Nvidia still doesn't have a decent driver for 6 and 7 series cards. |
| #11 By 2960 (24.254.95.224) at 2/4/2007 7:08:34 PM |
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Thanks for the links!
Overall the install and build-up went good. I did have a few issues though: 1. After installing (clean install, ultimate full, to a second partition) Vista ran Windows Update and restarted. No issues so far. Checked windows update again (as always, you need to do this until it says no updates available), and there were some chipset updates for the nForce-4 chipset in my ASUS A8V32-SLI Deluxe board. During install, there was a brief balloon popup in the system tray saying something like "MSF$ file corrupted - Run DiskCheck". After the updates were installed, the system rebooted and CheckDisk ran automatically. It found what must have been 1000 files it 'fixed'. It rebooted, and that's the last I ever saw of that Vista install. It would reboot half-way through loading windows. At least it happened early in the process, and not 12 hours later! I reinstalled Vista clean again (formatted the partition again as well), and this time it went through ok. 2. MS dropped DirectSound from Vista (what a stupid, STUPID move!). No drivers for my $400 audio card (Creative X-Fi Elite Pro). Creative has a Beta, but it's very weak. 3. nVidia. Don't even get me started. I place the blame squarely on nVidia. There is NO excuse for them not having finished, whql drivers ready. Personally, I think the GeForce 8800 has been a HUGE distraction for them and everything else has been ignored for too long. 4. I have a couple of corporate applications that are based on 16-bit code. They won't even install. Is the 16-bit layer (Windows on Windows, aka WoW) gone in Vista, finally? 5. I find certain aspects of the interface inconsistent. What relegates a feature to the left-side of a window, or the right side of the window? A good example of this is the "Personalize" window. I looked for bloody ever to find out where to put the Network Icon on the Desktop. I went through all the options on the right pane, including the "Desktop" panel where it used to be. Finally, I found it on the left pane called "Manage Desktop Icons". Sheesh, what the HELL is it doing there? Another is looking at your Network Adapters. Before, you just right-clicked on "My Network Places" and selected properties. Now it's hidden (in plain site) on the left pane of the network panel. 6. IE7 is not impressing me. It tends to lock up a LOT when it can't reach a site. You can't cancel it, you can't stop it. Basically have to kill IE in the Task List. Luckily FireFox 2 and all my extensions seem to work fine :) 7. My biggest problem is the computer (always) blue-screens and reboots when coming out of sleep. As you know, this is probably THE hardest thing to troubleshoot and fix on a Windows PC. ACPI is a mess on PC's IMHO, and it isn't much better on Mac's. It could be one of the Beta drivers, but I'm not sure. For now, I've turned off sleep and just let the screen blank out. Performance seems fine, though I've got a top-tier machine. I haven't installed my racing sims yet so gaming is untested at this time. That's next after I do a stage-1 image. TL P.S. I got that damned ActiveWin "Enter Password" window after typing all this even though I was already logged in. I thought this was fixed? Luckily, I've gotten bit by this so many times I've gotten in the habit of selecting and copying long posts prior to hitting the post button :) This post was edited by TechLarry on Sunday, February 04, 2007 at 19:09. |
| #12 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 2/4/2007 9:50:15 PM |
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Hey, TL
Le me guess... you were switching between active windows [e.g., mouse focus from one application to another - in and out of Activewin's site], when you got bit after a post that took a few minutes to write - and the session variable dropped. This is a difficult one to fix easily - meaning, without a complete re-write and a new treatment to such an application. The other instances where this would happen seem to have been fixed. Focus in Vista is an issue I could spend a week writing about - and have - submitting a lot of feedback - to what end, I guess time will tell... as an example... mouse focus when running media center - used to be one could place media center in one display and continue to work in another... while still being able to signal the media center - in Vista one cannot do that any longer and resizing the media center interface is the only answer... not cool.. not cool at all. The lockups in IE 7 are really browser failures so much as they are the new anti-Phishing filters working to validate all the crap that makes up a modern website - flash ads from many content distributors.... etc... there is a fix here, http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/928089 - I'd apply it and reboot. Personally, I disable the dang thing and any link I hit from an email I copy and paste into a text document first to see where it is taking me. Then if I am not certain, I hover over the "check this site" area in IE 7 and see if it is listed in any way. In any case... I don't like any of the anti-this, or that technologies at all - all of them stink and exist for reasons that are even worse. Yup - no more 16 bit support... I'd use the free virtual server and install previous versions and apps into it. On a strong PC you can have many virtual machines running. We do this in support of customers and as we develop. It's the best way to do all that you need to do and it run very well as do apps installed under a VM. I'd check out R2, http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/virtualserver/software/privacy.mspx |
| #13 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 2/4/2007 9:52:22 PM |
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Nvidia. I am so pissed at that company right now I could spit. ATI/AMD is little better.
Main system WHQL drivers [which stink] are just the start of it... PureVideo HD's very limited support for a narrow set of cards is even more reason to be angry with that company. They have zero excuse, in my opinion and they can bet it will influence my purchasing decisions. I may not be able to get a driver, but I can cost them a couple of mil this year - not much, I know, but enough to make me feel better in any case. I wouldn't be hacked at MS over D3D - all the IHV's had plenty of time and tools to get it right. That said, you're 100% right that they have rendered many cards nearly useless - many on-board audio solutions, too and they are causing my company money and a lot of pain. Base this and base that [drivers] is all well and fine for cookie-cutter configs from big OEM's - but when you sell complete environments and hardware as a service, the exotic is the norm and the lack of proper drivers for high-end hardware is death itself. My bet... Microsoft will end up all by writing drivers for people and the move to 64 bit is taxing alrady over-taxed resources where IHV's are pressed on price. I say, raise your prices and cover your costs, or surrender the market to middle of the road crap. Which in a world where 128k audio is "good enough" so long as it's free... is likely where a lot is headed... to which I reflect on being glad I am getting old and won't be around to see it... I miss fanatics that had to have the best where nothing was ever good enough - shoot for a C- and you'll get it I guess... fine.... No, it isn't! I'd drop a new drive into that rig and do another install - the warranties on them are pretty good and you can get an RMA in a few days. Bad thing is that one seems to be leveraging such returns with great regularity - no matter how high end one buys. I could shingle a roof with the number of drives that I RMA'd last year [all boxed Seagate, and or Hitachi]... down WD way, it is even worse. Oh well... at least ASUS's Intel based boards have held up well enough... Antec and faulty case fans.... now there's a story... I'd like to sling them at Antec execs like death-shirkins. P.S., If you sent me your settings from your BIOS ref power/ACPI, I can show what rev to get and what to set to make Vista's sleep function actually work. We've dorked around with them so often we've managed to actually make it work in any config built in the last 18 months or so. This post was edited by lketchum on Sunday, February 04, 2007 at 22:01. |
| #14 By 32158 (130.13.159.43) at 2/4/2007 11:04:48 PM |
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#13, testify brother!!!
The first Vista beta I was able to run on my media center PC was beta 2 because the nVidia drivers would throw a BSOD when you tried to watch TV. Also, ever since Vista went gold and before nVidia released their newest driver, I was frequenting guru3d.com for beta drivers just for BASIC FUNCTIONALITY!! I have always preferred nVidia cards and their driver package over ATI but these days, it's really the lesser of two evils. Let's hope some of that AMD money can get the ATI ball rolling soon. |
| #15 By 32313 (208.131.186.18) at 2/5/2007 11:04:58 AM |
| I suspect we probably won't see Windows 7 until 2010 or 2011, considering it might be a big bang release. But who knows what the Windows Team has in store for us until then? We could see a interim client release to coincide with other updates such as Longhorn Server R2, I'm sure there is a lot of incubated technologies MS wants to get out the gate such as WinFS if it still exist and Domain's for Homes instead of waiting 5 years. So, its possible a Windows 6.2 (Vista R2) is in the works for late 2008, early '09 to keep consumers, SA customers and OEM's happy until Windows 7. |
| #16 By 2960 (24.254.95.224) at 2/5/2007 12:50:08 PM |
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I don't recall if I switched windows or not. I don't think I did...
I got the patch. Funny that doesn't show up on Windows update! 16 bit finally being gone is a good thing IMHO. I already have VPC7 images running for just this reason. I'll look into the bios settings. Thanks! TL |
| #17 By 2960 (24.254.95.224) at 2/5/2007 12:51:08 PM |
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Oh, and genuine validation AGAIN when I downloaded it? This is really a bunch of crap. I'm so tired of that every single time.
TL |
| #18 By 2960 (24.254.95.224) at 2/5/2007 12:52:54 PM |
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Hmmmm.... Says it didn't apply to my system? Yes, I got the 32bit Vista version.
TL |
| #19 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 2/5/2007 2:32:58 PM |
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#17, Yeah - once done, each of the sites that require it should read that as they load - one would think... and they should also support the new cert types that provide the Green address bar marking... I mean,... if they are going to have us trust the page, etc... and stop
delivering what appears to be a new validation toekn each dang time. |
| #20 By 1896 (68.153.171.248) at 2/5/2007 4:50:16 PM |
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#15 I think 2010 if not sooner. They have already tons of things that were not delivered in Vista. When Longhorn Server will hit the market we will see Vista Sp1 to make the Desktop OS in sync with the Server. Vista R2? It could happen although they need to find a way to make owner of the "Ultimate" Edition swallow it; either way R2 will be free for "Ultimate" owner or I predict a hard sell among them, me first. Bottom line Vista is OK, I upgraded all my systems but... it is just an evolution of XP; not only cosmetic of course but there is the need for a complete overhaul of the OS. This post was edited by Fritzly on Monday, February 05, 2007 at 16:51. |
| #21 By 17996 (66.235.19.95) at 2/7/2007 11:22:19 AM |
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#11 -- DirectSound wasn't removed. But it was rewritten to be on top of the new Audio stack. As such, all of the old audio APIs are simply alternate ways to get to the audio engine. As such, old ways of accessing audio hardware no longer work. DirectSound3D is one of those things--sound still plays, but without hardware-provided effects.
Re: 16-bit apps -- you said you're running the 32-bit version? 32-bit versions still support i16-bit apps fully. However, none of the 64-bit versions of Windows have ever had 16-bit support. Re: IE7 -- Do you have any extensions (e.g. toolbars) installed? Have you tried running with them disabled? (Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > Internet Explorer (No Addons) ? |
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