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PlayStation 2 gets kicked out of CeBit | |
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||
| Time: 12:38 EST/17:38 GMT | News Source: ZDNet | Posted By: Byron Hinson | ||
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Less than a week after Microsoft chief executive Steve Ballmer told visitors to the massive CeBIT exhibition in Germany that he wanted to see a warmer, friendlier Microsoft, his company has become embroiled in a row with Sony over gaming consoles. Microsoft complained to the show organizers, Hannover Messe AG, that Sony was breaching show rules by letting people play on Sony PlayStation 2 game consoles. Technically, this was right and the Messe was forced to act on the complaint. Sony approached Microsoft to find a compromise and entered into protracted discussions with the Messe for a deal acceptable for all parties, but none could be found. On Sunday morning Sony started packing up its 27 PS2s. The show, in Hannover, Germany, officially finishes on Wednesday. | ||
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| #1 By 531 (66.188.86.105) at 3/18/2002 1:27:39 PM |
| So now Microsoft is the bad guy because they're playing by the rules instead of "breaking" them... ok... |
| #2 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 3/18/2002 1:51:10 PM |
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I guess I don't understand why the show rules would prohibit this, but I imagine Microsoft was miffed because they read the rules and planned for it... then show up and find out that's not the way things work.
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| #3 By 4379 (66.54.164.122) at 3/18/2002 2:22:55 PM |
| MS should have busted out its own consoles. |
| #4 By 1295 (216.84.210.100) at 3/18/2002 2:25:50 PM |
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LOL.
Go read the comments on this article on ZDNet. There is so much irony its almost sad. It sounds to me that Sony has a new big boy in town. I personally would be saying something if I were MS. They read the rules and probably don't have the consoles to put out for the consumers. It is really Sony's fault for not negotiating something that would work. They could have just re-setup the floor without consumers having access. I think really that MS knows they aren't making much headway against PS2 and they are playing by the rules to gain ground. Lord knows if the roles were reversed Sony would have done something... and if it were sun or oracle instead of Sony there would have been a lawsuit as well. |
| #5 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/18/2002 2:51:50 PM |
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It's the lies, adn the obvious ones at that that are always helpful.
"Microsoft officials denied that the company had complained to the Messe. But the show organizers confirmed that Richard Roy, vice president, corporate strategy, had complained." Clearly, CeBIT doesn't enforce its own rules (Sony had done the same thing the last 3 years) so a compromise should have been struck--and could have been done easily since MS had its own consoles there too. But MS doesn't like compromise, do they? ;-) |
| #6 By 1295 (216.84.210.100) at 3/18/2002 4:36:02 PM |
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Sodajerk,
What would you have said if MS was the one with the consumer accessible consoles and Sony complained about it? You would have said something about M$ never plays by the rules and is just exercising their Monopoly. People like to give their definitions of a "Softie" but really... you have just posted the picture perfect "Penguin" remark. This is something that makes everything you say loose all merit. You need to learn how to keep your seemingly blind love for Linux from making you look like a moron. You should have just posted that lame a s s comment on ZDNet with the rest of your buddies. As for the lying about saying something... my guess is the Officials that said they didn't say anything were probably not informed about the VP that was actually at the show. Anyway, it boils down to Sony using "fine i'm going home" child approach to it rather than just not letting their consumers use the consoles. |
| #7 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/18/2002 4:44:48 PM |
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Humpty, you've made the mistake of thinking I'm a Linux user for about the fifth time! Consider that. Either way I think the whole thing is pretty stupid and unimportant, the only thing I found of interest was the denial from Microsoft. It shows how they work and how they will continue to work. I find these defenses like the person who made the decision or the person who made the denial were acting on their own or not in concert ridiculous.
Where do you get the Sony "I'm going home" bit--it sounds to me like they were forced out; it says they tried to work out a compromise; it said MS had consoles there but just their staff demoing--it looks to me like it was MS who couldn't compromise. And I really don't care about this issue--people love to jump on me when I do a one off comment, but never dig into the issues I raise that are serious or contentious. (I would love for someone to respond to a couple of points I raise about the "Windows" trademark, for example--post #16.) Oh well. This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, March 18, 2002 at 17:54. |
| #8 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 3/18/2002 6:26:27 PM |
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sodajerk - You need to read 'Blinded by the Right' by David Brock. Especially the chapter about his time in Berkeley.
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| #9 By 1896 (66.20.202.10) at 3/18/2002 6:37:36 PM |
| #12 If you had paid money to get a stand, read the rules and complied with them you would have all the rights to complain if your competitors break the same rules. If you think that those rules are wrong you submit your opinion to the organizing Commitee. I don' t see your point about "Compromising". If Sony "compromized" with the above mentioned Commitee they forgot to invite MS to the meeting. From what I read Sony tried to push it as " a fait accompli'"; when it did not work they should have just not allowed people to use the consolle and not walked away. |
| #10 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/18/2002 6:43:29 PM |
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Shouldn't I read "Blinded by the Left" since I'm not a conservative hack? Basically, I don't quite get your point--that I am trying to affect the message or that I'm poisoned by the messages I receive. Personally, I think my views are pretty individual--you should hear me rip Apple to shred at Mac sites for instance. If you are referring to my message, I've discussed it before: the more logical and straightforward I am, the response evaporates--but I want debate. If I say crass, offensive, or ridiculous stuff, the fools will step in and I'll have a debate going. Personally, I don't like having a good point couched in an insult, but otherwise, I can't draw a response out of you. Do I know that a lot of you dismiss my posts? Hell, yeah, but I'm not entirely convinced some of you can HEAR and UNDERSTAND an intelligent argument so I'm not really trying to cast any shift in the views of ActiveWin readers. I figure the people who will pay attention will make up their own minds; they just need to hear a different perspective every once in a while. This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, March 18, 2002 at 18:54. |
| #11 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/18/2002 6:50:49 PM |
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Fritzly, Microsoft only approached the CeBIT people on the fourth day of the show, with four days left. I think that's the "fait accompli" part. I see the complaints as valid, but the problem is with the show organizers, not Sony. They had let Sony and others break the rules for the last three years. That's why I say a compromise should be reached: because they screwed up and they should resolve it equitably for both companies. Your mentioning the costs, etc. was probably exactly Sony's point (this is a guess, I admit, but I've been to similar shows and can just imagine how Sony's booth was set up): we've got this booth display that's designed to have attendees use the stuff, the only way to stop them is to slap their hands, or rip the consoles out of the wall, or to turn them off; we did this at great expense because we have done so and been a popular booth the last three years running. This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, March 18, 2002 at 18:52. |
| #12 By 37 (24.196.75.92) at 3/18/2002 7:27:48 PM |
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Mr. Humpty,
Microsoft is actually making huge headway into the PS2 territory. The only thing right now besides the number of games that limits the Xbox domination is lack of inventory. |
| #13 By 1896 (66.20.202.10) at 3/18/2002 7:52:51 PM |
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#18 I disagree with you:
about the fact that MS complained only the fourth day and with other four days to go note that, besides the fact that the time-frame is exactly in the middle of the show and not toward the end of it, a "crime" , intended in general terms as breaking an established law, can be prosecuted for extended period of time after it happened and not only at the beginning of the act itself; furthermore MS complain happened when the "crime" was developping which legally is considered an "actio flagrandi". About "compromising" as a general rule I don' t feel confortable that just because someone did something that was not supposed to and nobody noted or complained about it we should accept it and change the law that forbid it; in this specific case I am not against the attempt to settle the dispute and maybe even to change the rules for the future editions. My point is that a compromise can be reached only if all the involved parties find a platform they willingly agree about. For instance how many times you posted that the nine states that cough, cough "on behalf of the customers" , are trying to get more from MS have all the right not to agree with the Federal Governament and sign the proposed settlement? Personally I think that your point could be, constitutionally speaking questionable, but I agree 100% with you about the priciple in broader terms: you don' t have to agree on something just because the other parties had, you have the right to disagree. This principle is the corner stone of a democratic society. |
| #14 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/18/2002 8:02:49 PM |
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Fritz, we aren't talking about a crime, the constitution, or national or judicial policies so I don't see what you are railing against. I am talking about a trade show promoter needing to protect its show. I also just found out by the way that Western Digital had XBox for demo by the crowd, but MS didn't complain to them. What you are saying is MS had ever right to keep bitching--fine, I agree to that; I think CeBIT should have done everything possible to level the playing field and if not, to say, well, Sony you can still stay (not because I prefer Sony, but because I would imagine Sony is a company you want at your show).
As for when it happened, in no way does in the middle or at the end effect the costs Sony went through in building, shipping, and staffing their booth. |
| #15 By 1896 (66.20.202.10) at 3/18/2002 8:22:58 PM |
| # A signed contract is a legal act therefore I don' t see your statement. I disagree that trying to have your right recognized and enforced can be called "bitching". What affected the costs Sony went through in building, shipping, and staffing their booth was that they did broke the rules they agreed upon signing a legal contract. |
| #16 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/18/2002 8:34:51 PM |
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who violated the contract though, Sony or CeBIT? I would say CeBIT did--I'm sure they were aware of Sony's booth before the show, and they let attendees violate their contracts for three years..
Microsoft and Sony didn't have a contract. This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, March 18, 2002 at 20:42. |
| #17 By 2332 (129.21.145.80) at 3/18/2002 9:42:39 PM |
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Why the hell does it matter? Sony broke a rule, Microsoft (which, in this case, is the young upstart just trying to compete against industry giants... although that DOESN'T MATTER) reported it, and CeBit was forced to comply with THEIR OWN REGULATIONS.
To what extent will you all ignore the facts to bend reality to your world view? |
| #18 By 1896 (66.20.202.10) at 3/18/2002 9:46:29 PM |
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Sodajerk believe it or not but I read your posts and therefore I know that you can do better.
CeBIT submit a contract to potential custromers, if customers agree and sign it they are legally bounded by what is written in it. CeBIT did not enforce the rules they established? They are liable for the damages this negligence or, even worse silent complicity, could create to other customers; do this excuse Sony? Not at all, they broke a signed contract. Of course MS and Sony did not have a contract, what for? They both signed the same contract but Sony broke it and MS did not. These are the facts. Is it so hard to digest the fact that MS did nothing wrong? |
| #19 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/18/2002 9:55:56 PM |
| Look at the bending you yourself are doing RMD. Young upstart my ass, you could still call them big heavy weight who's green and ignorant about CeBIT. And CeBIT didn't force Sony to leave; they left on their own. And I said it from the begining, I don't care. I just like fighting against idiotic arguments. |
| #20 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/18/2002 10:03:15 PM |
| I never said MS did anything wrong, Fritzly. I only argued that Sony's actions were understandable. And that CeBIT is the party which is really at fault. I don't know why you are trying to make it out that I am saying MS is wrong, when I was only fighting with some of the assertions you made about Sony. I would think you will find this will have worse affects for MS within the trade show/CeBIT community, and that even if they look childish, it is actually benefitting Sony right now that they have a big empty hole in the trade show. Where's Sony? Why they leave? What? MS made them leave? About what, why did they get kicked out? I've been playing on the consoles at the show for the last few years, screw them! (Even if it is just rumors, that doesn't work out well for MS's reputation or CeBIT's show). |
| #21 By 2459 (66.25.124.8) at 3/18/2002 10:12:03 PM |
| Or it could work to the detriment of Sony who has a history of childishness and unprofessionalism when it comes to competition. |
| #22 By 1896 (66.20.202.10) at 3/18/2002 10:52:30 PM |
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As a general rule I don' t agree that breaking a contract is understandable. I can understand taking advantage of loop-holes if any but not breaking the rules and this is exactly what Sony did, it broke the rules, of course at its own advantage. Is CeBIT liable? sure it is, I stated it too, is Sony innocent? No it is not becuase they broke the rules. I agree with you that someone could try to put the blame to MS and this is the most worrisome aspect of this story:
the innocent is blamed and the felons slip away. Very sad indeed. |
| #23 By 1896 (66.20.202.10) at 3/18/2002 11:03:59 PM |
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And talking about Sony habits take a look at this:
Go to http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/ and look for the article called " HARDWARE: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" |
| #24 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 3/18/2002 11:13:24 PM |
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RMD is absolutely 100% correct.
The point, sodajerk, and why I think you need to read the David Brock book is because you have quite clearly gotten yourself into a position where you have allowed your world view to be distorted by fantasy solely because of your extreme hatred towards Microsoft. Somewhere between black and white there is grey. You don't have to be 100% anti-MS. Until you realize that you will continue to be a pathetic debater. |
| #25 By 2332 (129.21.145.80) at 3/18/2002 11:41:52 PM |
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#27 - "Young upstart my ass, you could still call them big heavy weight who's green and ignorant about CeBIT."
How is Microsoft not a young upstart? They are exactly that... they've never done any console system before, and currently Sony is the 800lb Gorilla in the console industry. What about that definition is wrong? "And CeBIT didn't force Sony to leave; they left on their own." I didn't say Sony was forced to leave... I said CeBit was forced to enforce their own regulations. It's kinda like when a competitor (*cough* netscape) asks the rule maker (*cough* DOJ) to enforce the rules against Microsoft. Of course, this case is a little different since Microsoft doesn't have 90% market share like *cough* Netscape did... If anything, we should feel sympathy for Microsoft -- they're just trying to beat the incumbant. When they're trying to beat the incumbant, they do some really great innovative stuff. I think they're entitled to ask that others play by the rules, don't you? :-) |
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