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Microsoft warns Apple over iPhone | |
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| Time: 12:33 EST/17:33 GMT | News Source: VNUNet | Posted By: Erick Cordero | ||
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Microsoft has warned Apple that a mobile phone built to emulate its successful iPod MP3 player will still face a tough challenge in the marketplace. Robbie Bach, president of the entertainment and devices division at Microsoft, claimed that the company thought about launching a Zune mobile phone but decided against it. | ||
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| #1 By 2960 (24.254.95.224) at 1/9/2007 12:36:28 PM |
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Just what Apple needs. MS telling them how to innovate.
This really is funny :) TL |
| #2 By 3 (62.253.128.14) at 1/9/2007 12:37:13 PM |
| Not often I say it, but I think Microsoft is wrong this time. The iPhone is going to become a huge seller amongst the same buyers of the ipod. It looks a truely gorgeous device with a fantastic UI something that really puts all other phones to shame including my beloved MS Smartphone. If my provider supports it I'm ordering one right away and I never expected to want to. |
| #3 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 1/9/2007 1:00:06 PM |
| A few years ago, MS probably would have recommended against making the iPod, too. Who would have guessed (outside Redwood Shores) that the iPod would become so successful. They are just afraid that Apple will take over the market for embedded phones like they did for the MP3 player market, and MS will lose a chunk of change. However, this is just what MS needs to give them a kick in the pants to be more innovative and competitive in the embedded market. |
| #4 By 53078 (72.252.15.246) at 1/9/2007 1:17:57 PM |
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ya only 500$/4gb and 600$/8gb with a 2yr Cingular contract, and has 5hr battery life, on top of that US will need to wait till june/july to see it and europe and asia until 2008.....
Its a beautiful device, but the more important thing is the innovation this will push, before it was samsung vs motorola vs treo, with apple throwing this into the mix (3yrs of development) it'll be interesting to see how samsung and the rest combat it in 2007 considering they release phones like every 3 months lol |
| #5 By 3 (62.253.128.14) at 1/9/2007 1:42:52 PM |
| From the comments going around on forums and groups right now I'd say Apple are onto a winner here. I think most people were suprised at how good it looked and the selection of software on it, but most were stunned at the GUI. Hopefully it will spur on companies like Microsoft to try and push forward with better smartphones and PDA's as recent updates have just felt like point releases. |
| #6 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 1/9/2007 2:18:48 PM |
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As Owen Wilson said in I Spy:
"Look at the size of this thing! Size matters. But in the spy world, it's reversed. You want people to say, "Look how small and sexy and sleek this is." Not "How huge this is! Look at what he pulled out of his pants. It's huge!" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0297181/ |
| #7 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 1/9/2007 2:42:35 PM |
| Looks a hell of a lot better than the Zune! |
| #8 By 3 (62.253.128.14) at 1/9/2007 4:55:07 PM |
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#6 when Parker only complains about the size of hardware you know its good. Didn't you praise UMPC, massive, underpowered and not innovative. Oh and for those saying its big...It's the same width as the Zune, it's .1 inches taller, and it's .12 inches thinner. You know what that means? It's actually slightly smaller than the Zune...no fans here complained about the size of that did they ;o) Now thats what I call excellent design and designers. Do they still have those in the Zune team? This post was edited by Byron_Hinson[AW] on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 at 17:05. |
| #9 By 1401 (65.255.137.20) at 1/9/2007 5:19:37 PM |
| I distinctly recall Gates saying that he'd bet on the cell phone against the MP3 player to be the winning device. This kind of contradicts that... |
| #10 By 20 (67.9.176.193) at 1/9/2007 6:02:01 PM |
| I for one am tired of how long its taken MS to get anywhere useful with the SmartPhone. It still sucks, though it was better than anything else. Maybe now MS will get serious and stop blustering around with failed half-starts in the mobile/phone arena. |
| #11 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 1/9/2007 11:37:34 PM |
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#8 The blackberry management saddled me with is 136grams ... 1g heavier than the iPhone. I think its way too heavy and have no use for the damn thing.
Bigger is not better when it comes to phones. As for mp3 players ... I like my 6GB 75gram e270. It plays video too. And its only 159.99 on Amazon this week. And it gets a lot of battery life. |
| #12 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 1/10/2007 11:09:50 AM |
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http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-iphone-is-not-a-smartphone/
"... the iPhone is first party software ONLY -- i.e. not a smartphone by conventional terms, being that a smartphone is a platform device that allows software to be installed. That means hungry power-users -- you know, those people ready and willing to plunk down $600 for an 8GB musicphone -- won't be able to extend the functionality of their phone any more than Apple (but thankfully not Cingular) dictates. Other unfortunate realities about the device: No 3G. We know you know, but still, it hurts man. No over the air iTunes Store downloads or WiFi syncing to your host machine. No expandable memory. No removable battery. No Exchange or Office support. " |
| #13 By 116 (216.85.31.5) at 1/10/2007 11:12:43 AM |
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I think everyone agrees this thing looks like candy. They really have a sweet design that make macheads across the world just gush. I don't know how well that touch interface will work and that really is the key. They don't even have FCC approval yet and that could take a while. With these types of phones they break quite often. It will be interesting to see how they hold up. Pocket PC devices like this you couldn't carry them in your pocket and they get beatup (scratched) bad. The other thing to keep in mind is this is not a smartphone. You aren't going to be able to install your applications on this. They really tried to hate on qwerty phones but there is a reason everyone uses keyboards to interface with their computer and not touch screens. Love to play with one but in day to day use I bet the blackjack, q, dash, treo, etc... whip it in actual phone usage. No doubt though an incredibly sexy device. My two cents is all style and no substance (kind of like every other apple product). BTW size on this device is pretty much middle of the road between all those devices I mentioned.
Peace, Ben |
| #14 By 23275 (172.16.10.31) at 1/10/2007 2:23:50 PM |
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Steve Jobs made a point of displaying the keyboards on several extant mobile phone models, saying, "these buttons don't change." - as though it was some kind of design weakness.
I was stunned and thought, "my, this man has never seen, much less supported mobile professionals." My second thought was, "Well, duh, dude... of course they don't change... the letters and numbers inherent to any written language tend to remain something of a constant - so even "going to..." a soft KB is not going to work for pro-sumer users." I then picked up the article I keep on Jobs which centers on the mistake it is to pursue "design for design's sake" - a challenge I have to face all the time and a fault I have, though I frankly suck as a designer by comparison - this is Steve Jobs, after all. Still, I can learn from the man - both good and bad. I next got an email from a really heavy mobile email user - a bit miffed that his mobile phone needed a charge after about six (6) hours. I thought about the "up to five (5) hour" battery life reported for the iPhone and thought that despite the look of the thing, my small business customers would kill me if I recommended it and they saw less than a full day's use from it. Next, I took my own phone - a Motorola Q and remembered some early engineering lessons from school - about design and perspective in the physical form. Back in the early 70's that was a wild, "out there" kind of class - when people started to look at how things "fell" - by that I mean, how things in the physical world come to rest upon one another naturally. Looking back at my phone - in hand, I smiled. The fit was perfect - as it fell into my hand and my fingers and thumb "fell" around it, I noted that its design was very close to perfect. The device is supported 2/3 in-bourd of the pinky finger of the non-firing hand and rests at an angle against the three index fingers. The thumb falls directly over the number one on its QWERTY KB. It can be turned without modification throughout the entire range of motion of my hand - even upside down. Later today I handed the phone to a few people and asked them to call my desk - to see how consistent the "fall" was. Indeed it was and only one of the subjects has the same model phone. I remembered all the customers who were on BB BES until the Q - the first device any of them would move to other than BB - all becuase of its QWERTY keyboard and their ability to "feel" it as they drove [dumb, don't do that, please], rode, walked, or anything else "mobile" people do. Maybe the iPhone will overcome all the things that I and others have addressed, dealt with and decided upon over the many years mobile communications integration has been taking place. The last thought I had was that Steve Jobs probably does not have a lot of personal experience using full MAPI clients - he's likely been a POP, or IMAP guy pretty much his entire professional life - unless he's a closet Windows and Office fan and user, which I doubt. So he's not going to get my point, nor that of about any CIO, CTO, or enterprise customer. In the 500 to 600 dollar per device range, exactly who was Apple thinking of. Latch, before you ding me for having too much free time, or intertest in exploring such things, understand that when someone as significant as Steve Jobs says Apple is going to totally change how we look at mobile phones and mobile communications, it's prudent to listen, and think [long and hard] about it. That is exactly what good CTO/CIO's and small tech company owners do. |
| #15 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 1/11/2007 9:27:04 AM |
| #14: The iPhone is definitely a sexy looking device. However, it does have some limitations. There is no mention of CDMA support, for example. Hopefully, by the time they ship, some more wireless protocols will be supported, otherwise the market for this thing will be limited. As well, I am hoping that future revisions will answer some of the things that Parkkker mentioned were missing in #12. I think that, for a Version One of the product, it is pretty cool. However, I won't be rushing out to get one until some of the other issues are resolved. Especially the over the air downloading of music, and a battery I can replace myself. |
| #16 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 1/11/2007 9:39:51 AM |
| #14: The advantage to a touch screen keypad is that those who prefer a different layout, such as a Dvorak keyboard layout, can do so. With other smartphones, the layout is unchangeable, so you are stuck with the QWERTY layout, whether you like it or not. Foreign language keyboards become more problematic as well. |
| #17 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 1/11/2007 11:20:08 AM |
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lketchum--I totally agree (and surprisingly, so does David Pogue) about the lack of a real, tactile keyboard being a drawback. I just can't imagine a touch-screen being superior to real buttons, and though I'll have to try it for myself, it seems that Pogue's experience with one first-hand confirms it.
However, I'm personally a bit confused, since you previously took the stance that the full-keyboard BlackBerries were not that great because people didn't type long messages on them anyways. This seems like a contradiction to what you are saying about the iPhone. At any rate, I still love my BlackBerry 7105's two-letter/button keyboard. Even after trying a full-keyboard BlackBerry and Q, I prefer it, and surprisingly, can type faster on it. Maybe it's an adjustment thing, but the buttons are actually bigger than the full-keyboard buttons (yet the phone is smaller), and the "SureType" software is amazing. I'm surprised it hasn't received better reviews. All I can think of is that it's just something new; it's change, and people don't like change. Spend a week with it--really using it--and I think most people would love it. I can't wait to upgrade to the Pearl once my 7105 dies. "Oops! I, uh, dropped it in the toilet!" |
| #18 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 1/11/2007 11:42:31 AM |
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#16, "Locker combinations and Morse code"
Yes, you're right, that is the assertion - one can schedule what the KB layout is in SW. Seems smart, but it doesn't work. "I am sure there many here that play one or more musical instruments. If not, I am certain nearly everyone here has used a locker combination of some sort and the alpha geeks out there may even know how to send packet via amateur radio." Regardless of what, or even how, we each know what it is to leverage our own bodies. Our muscles reduce the actions above to a form of memory that we seldom appreciate - our fingers simply "know" the combination to a lock after a very short time - though we may have to pause if asked what the numbers and their sequence are. Guitarists, pianists and Morse operators will know this and describe it as muscle memory, but it is far more complex and an extremely fast type of memory. Great boxers and race car drivers that actually win races have it, too - and they call it "twitch speed." Professional Soldiers develop it and they call it "hatch muscle" - a very light, very powerful and resilient form of muscle that is made up of many layers of small muscles that run in many directions. There is a path that supports this type of memory - it extends [in this case] from the finger tips to the brain, which seems to be able to nail this up faster than any one of us can fully understand - and that is a good thing, since we needn't be conscious of it and in order for it to work, we can't be. The moment we do become conscious of it, we have to pause - we've all done it. Missed a key, dropped a character, or been popped in the jaw. Disruptions cause this break in the stream of data from our fingers to our brains - movement of many kinds does this and the longer the sequence, the more likely it is to happen. Movement contrary to a primary or predicted path is even more disruptive – hence why people, including me, balk at Vista’s WMC lateral interface additions, and not all people dig Apple’s use of it on the iPod, or iPhone/AppleFone, or whacha-might-end-up-calling-it-fone. While there are many types of neurotransmitters that support this, the communicative ones primarily used in muscle memory are acetylcholine and serotonin. Acetylcholine maps and stores these memories and serotonin is used to nail up the bridges used to transmit the signals needed. Extremely fast neuron switching responds to polarization and depolarization of the gateways along the paths involved. When we complicate this we have to build increasingly longer and convoluted paths and we at the same time, increase the opportunities for disruptions. As I studied these things in learning what products to recommend to customers, I learned that no matter of marketing prowess, or individual enthusiasm one might have, one could never overcome either human physiology, or behaviors – learned or otherwise and we all know that all of us can master a locker combination, while fewer of us can master and reduce to muscle memory, Morse Code, the piano, or guitar. This is why my customers loved the BB, hated the Samsung i730 and embraced the Motorola Q. It is also why they will pitch the Apple iPhone, or whatever they end up calling it. |
| #19 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 1/11/2007 11:56:30 AM |
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#17, To clarify - my position opposite the BB was most about the lack of "rich text" and thoughtful messaging than it was about the actual HID - favoring the rich text and options for safer and more thoughtful communications found on the Windows Mobile platform.
In that case, and regardless of the full keyboard on the BB devices of the time, I valued the richer forms of communication possible over ease of input. Devices like the Motorola Q combined the richness of Windows Mobile - reply with voice to email and rich text, etc... and objects with a great HID. Also, I am not speaking from a position of success here, either - favoring the early SmartPhones as I did, cost me. I was wrong and no matter how initially compelling the feature set was in WM 2002/2003 and 2003SE, the BB keyboard was king among my customers. Not until WM5 and the Moto Q KB arrived, did this change and combine the best of all worlds. The KB, and per the lessons I learned as at my post at #18, taught me a lot about what people want on a mobile device. Fortunately, we were prudent and we ran test groups of willful participants and we held onto BB and BES for most users as we awaited better devices - so the pain was not too bad for any of us and however great earlier BB BES devices were at mobile mail, nearly all users despised the voice side and did not like talking into a "pop-tart", or "taco" as some called them. CDMA/EVDO users love the Q. GSM/3G users love the BlackJack. I love the OS, SFP and Exchange/AD integration and happy customers. |
| #20 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 1/11/2007 1:56:14 PM |
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#18: If I am reading your posting correctly, then I can only presume you are agreeing with me, as forcing someone used to a non-QWERTY keyboard to use a fixed QWERTY-like keyboard, or whatever other keyboard-like arrangement a particular phone maker decides on is going against that user's muscle memory. Thus, someone used to a Dvorak keyboard should be able to use that, as that is the keyboard layout they are used to.
Personally, I prefer a neural interface, but until one is invented, I'll be forced to use whatever the maker of the phone I am using at the time decided was best for me. |
| #21 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 1/11/2007 4:21:35 PM |
| I like your idea of a neural interface - that would be amazing and I'd bet computing science will be able to provide it someday soon. I'd also bet that speech is going to render all our opinions irrelevant very, very soon. I'd like to think that Bill Gates chose to move onto his work with the foundation, because he knows something about this and that there is a parting gift he and Microsoft are going to send our way when he leaves. I belive that so much so, that the day that was announced I started working on all kinds of ideas for "pick ups" and embedded and intelligent microphones that had their own unique abilities. If one thinks on it for a moment, the day that truly universal speech becomes available, it will render nearly all previous milestones in computing as being less significant than they presently are. |
| #22 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 1/12/2007 7:27:05 AM |
| I agree that a truly good voice recognition system would be a great boon to computing. The keyboard, as we know it today, is almost obsolete. We just don't have anything better to replace it with yet, but that day is close.Maybe the next step in human-computer interaction will be a touch screen like keyboard, but with the ability to give tactile feedback. That would not be as difficult to build as it might sound. And hopefully, somday, we'll just plug into a neural interface, and control the computer interface mentally, in a VR kind of way. |
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