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Firefox 2.0, IE 7 Post Gains | |
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| Time: 01:08 EST/06:08 GMT | News Source: InformationWeek | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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Mozilla's Firefox browser continued to erode Microsoft's Internet Explorer market share during November, a Web metrics company said Wednesday, even as IE 7 gained momentum. According to Net Applications, the open-source Firefox grabbed another half a percentage point of usage share last month, accounting for 13.5% of all browsers, up from October's 12.96%. Internet Explorer's share, meanwhile, fell from 81.28% to 80.56%. If current trends continue, IE will have lost 5 percentage points during 2006 and will likely dip under 80% for the first time in more than six years. Apple Computer's Safari posted a tenth of a percent gain in November, while Opera's share increased by 0.06%. | ||
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| #1 By 32132 (64.180.218.215) at 12/8/2006 1:34:32 AM |
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I notice on the Netapplication site:
Firefox 1.5 at 8.39 Firefox 2.0 at 3.61 Firefox 1.0 at 1.43 Firefox .01 and .9 and 1.4 have a small share as well. It would seem Firefox is having trouble convincing people to switch to 2.0. The Counter has these numbers for December. http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2006/December/browser.php 1. MSIE 6.x 7210683 (72%) 2. MSIE 7.x 1083655 (11%) 3. FireFox 1039534 (10%) 4. Safari 296677 (3%) 5. MSIE 5.x 135937 (1%) IE 7 is ahead of Firefox. November stats are: 1. MSIE 6.x 63895791 (76%) 2. FireFox 8960695 (11%) 3. MSIE 7.x 5665150 (7%) 4. Safari 2305676 (3%) 5. MSIE 5.x 1083173 (1%) Firefox is dropping. |
| #2 By 52115 (66.181.69.250) at 12/8/2006 8:35:01 AM |
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Just was wondering though, how does this company know for certain whether a web browser truly is what it says it is?
I know some sites still say you have to run IE to see the site, so you trick the site in thinking youre running IE when youre actually running Opera or Firefox or Konquerer; does it report that youre running IE? This post was edited by Winux on Friday, December 08, 2006 at 08:35. |
| #3 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 12/8/2006 9:56:23 AM |
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#2: Don't burst parkkker's fantasy bubble. It's all he has.
So how 'bout them MS zero-day exploits huh? First Word, then Media Player... yep, MS is all about quality & innovation. Next it wil be a zero-day exploit for the Windows clock. |
| #4 By 2201 (212.117.228.133) at 12/8/2006 10:06:22 AM |
| #3 don't see what's that got to do with a conversation about browsers. Oh, it's just FUD from you, isn't it (as if MS is the only company in the world that has exploits in their applications). |
| #5 By 13030 (198.22.121.110) at 12/8/2006 10:56:18 AM |
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Paging NotParker, paging NotParker...
Actually, I'm completely amazed at the low adoption of IE 7. How is it possible with Windows XP SP2 supposedly running on the majority of Windows-based computers (according to the zealots here) that IE 7 adoption is only 13% of the IE 5, 6, and 7 browsers? Even Firefox 2.0 has double that share amongst its own browser versions. #2: Just was wondering though, how does this company know for certain whether a web browser truly is what it says it is? This has been over-inflating IE share for years. IE, non-standards compliant and yet the dominate browser, became the reason so many sites just don't look or function properly in non-IE browsers. Sometimes a browser could masquerade as IE to allow a site to function. I seem to remember Opera having an option that would allow you to have your browser always send an IE user agent. #1: Firefox is dropping. Really? I found three sites right off the bat indicating otherwise. http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=0&qpmr=15&qpdt=1&qpct=3&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=94 http://www.safalra.com/website/web-browser-market-share/ http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp |
| #6 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 12/8/2006 10:57:06 AM |
| #4: LOL. When it comes to MS products, there's no doubt or uncertainty that you should fear the next zero-day own-your-box flaw. |
| #7 By 13030 (198.22.121.110) at 12/8/2006 11:00:53 AM |
| All this comes down to an observation I have made: I do not personally know any highly technical Windows users that use IE now. |
| #8 By 21705 (142.213.176.140) at 12/8/2006 11:09:59 AM |
| Stupid stats... why it is so important? Why I say this is the fact those number mean not much when you don't even know if people just visited the page, downloaded for the 4th time or even using both and what else? |
| #9 By 32132 (64.180.218.215) at 12/8/2006 11:30:55 AM |
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#5 Actually, I'm amazed IE7 has passed Firefox already. And I'm amazed IE7 has 11% of the market already.
"three sites" Two of those are from October. And W3Cschools always overestimates non-Windows usage. I did notice (as an aside) that Linux usage dropped on W3Cschools from October to November (for some reason they have November OS stats) And Hitslink and Netapplications have them both around .36%. IE7 has 30x the users Linux has. "I do not personally know any highly technical Windows users that use IE now. " I don't know personally anyone who uses Linux. This post was edited by NotParker on Friday, December 08, 2006 at 11:32. |
| #10 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 12/8/2006 11:58:00 AM |
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So, it seems that IE7 only has 11% marketshare, despite being foisted upon the masses via Windows Automatic Update. Does that mean that 89% of people are saying no to IE7?
I knew IE was in big trouble a while back, when MS lackey Paul Thurotte was telling people to switch to Firefox. |
| #11 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 12/8/2006 12:01:20 PM |
| A CTO I know was an avid IE fan. I tried many times to convince him to switch to Firefox, and he kept refusing. Then he upgraded to IE 7. Shortly after that, he was asking me Firefox questions, and is now a Firefox fan. Add 1 for Firefox, and remove 1 from IE. |
| #12 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 12/8/2006 12:06:15 PM |
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Have a look at this trend graph, showing the trend for the previous 12 months.
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=3 It show IE marketshare decreasing, and Firefox marketshare increasing. |
| #13 By 52115 (66.181.69.250) at 12/8/2006 12:22:19 PM |
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#9 - "I don't know personally anyone who uses Linux."
Where do you work, the Microsoft campus? hahaha j/k |
| #14 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 12/8/2006 12:26:04 PM |
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Good Grief.... this is so silly..... not for any reason regarding personal choice, either.
Look, there has been a shift - away from Remote Invocations being supported in one form of object model/RPC call or another... be it Java RMI, ActiveX, or any other.... to XML. The way the interchange between clients and servers is moving and will continue to move, largely renders what browser is used, irrelevant. If you guys note, in Vista RTM versions, IE's icon is not on the desktop - by default. Further, customizing Vista Desktop Icons no longer provides the means to check a box and place the IE Icon on the Vista Desktop. One would have to add a script, as I have [saved as a .REG file], in order to do that... or add a less functional regular shortcut. The browser, [any browser], is no longer the limited client that it once was... [only made truly powerful by one for of RMI or another before XML]. The broswer, as I shared when IE 7 was in BETA 1, is a spring-board - a launching pad, if you will, into a new range of experiences supported by far more powerful and open technologies. The choice one makes regarding which browser to use no longer defines a person, or a company. It is especially GROSS to suggest that only the "Technically Literate" use Firefox. That is pure elitest BOVINE SCATOLOGY and it has no place in an industry which must be open and available to all people. I am tired of such pundits and seeing and reading statements separating classes of users. The arguments are over - all browsers WON! We advise we all Just use which ones each likes and spend our time building great software to run on all of them. This post was edited by lketchum on Friday, December 08, 2006 at 17:56. |
| #15 By 13030 (198.22.121.110) at 12/8/2006 12:39:19 PM |
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#9: I did notice (as an aside) that Linux usage dropped on W3Cschools from October to November (for some reason they have November OS stats)
And Hitslink and Netapplications have them both around .36%. IE7 has 30x the users Linux has. I don't know personally anyone who uses Linux. lol... we're talking about IE and Firefox and, as soon as the facts start coming in that you don't want to hear, you try to derail the conversation by bringing up Linux market share. We're talking about browser market share, not OS market share. #9: "three sites" So, how many sites, showing Firefox market share increases with IE decreases, are required to settle this point? 5, 20, 300? Fact is, Firefox is slowly gaining share while IE is slowly losing share. I still don't understand how any techie (outside of MS) would still be using IE these days. |
| #16 By 2201 (62.252.0.9) at 12/8/2006 3:43:39 PM |
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#6 Yawn. Tell that to someone who cares.
#rest - To be honest I find it funny that people will only use one or the other. I mean, who really cares these days? Personally I use both, I have the memory for it so don't really care which one I use. Al this "Don't use IE, use Firefox" and vice versa willy-waving sounds as childish as "Sony PS3 is teh suxxxorrrr!" speech on saddo teenage websites (like Neowin.net forums). |
| #17 By 17996 (66.235.19.95) at 12/9/2006 12:01:10 AM |
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#10 - IE7 having 11% share doesn't mean that 89% have said no. First of all, web usages statistics are just that -- usage statistics. Not installation statistics.
Secondly, IE has only been released in a dozen or so languages. There are still more coming -- many locales for which AU distribution has not started at all. Thirdly, IE7's distribution via Automatic Updates has been throttled; I'm not sure whether they've gotten to the point where all English users have even been offered IE7 yet. |
| #18 By 1845 (67.182.230.111) at 12/9/2006 2:16:45 AM |
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I still don't understand how any techie (outside of MS) would still be using IE these days.
ch, you obviously don't develop or test web applications. Your statement makes about as much sense as saying "I still don't understand how any mp3 player accessory vendor (outside of Apple) would still be using the iPod these days". IE owns its market, so anyone related to that market, if he's worth his salt, uses IE at the very least to develop/test products. iPod owns its market, so anyone related to that market, if he's worth his salt, uses iPod at the very least to develop/test products. Not so hard to understand, now was it? What I still don't understand is how I can curtail my previous level of patronage of this site for years and still return to find you touting the same lines. Interesting. I suppose you know me virtually, not personally (you aren't Bob, are you?), so I don't count as one you know who does not work for Microsoft who uses IE. Since I'm breaking my silence...ketchum, my heck you're annoying! I won't speak for anyone else, but I don't see what your blathering did for the conversation. Since you're incorrect on several points, let me correct you. The client-side calling of a server-side method is not dependent on a data format. Yes, XML is a data format. It doesn't replace remote procedure calls. Sending a document to a remote location is not a new processing instruction, can't be included via some magic namespace, and isn't include-able via some XSL hokus pokus. It's a collection of data bits not code bits. |
| #19 By 1845 (67.182.230.111) at 12/9/2006 2:17:06 AM |
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Now, the most common implementation of client-side communication with a server-side method, is, I'll bet, via the MSXML stack which includes XMLHTTP (first included with IE 5 in 1999 IIRC, so not new as you'd have us believe). It's been around for (if you count betas) close to a decade. Today's AJAX magic is nothing more than what Microsoft did in the 90's to make Outlook Web Access possible. The browser hasn't been the limited client that you speak of since, um, before Napster was even popular.
So, now that every browser is a commodity product, because they all interpret and render HTML, XHTML, CSS 1 2 and 3, XSL, SVG, et al the same way, it is quite clear that there's no point in anyone vying for browser market share. Oh wait...that hasn't happened yet, so it's quite obvious there's still quite a competitive client-side platform market (read: browser), and it's also obvious that with the war not over there is no winner YET. And yet you accuse others of a bovine scatological manner of speach. Here's the thing that annoys me so much about your posts. You talk and talk, extolling your brilliance and techincal prowess, yet you don't actually say very much. (And much of what you say is wrong.) I'd compare you to Mr. Thurrott, but his posts usually have more substance than yours. /sigh This post was edited by BobSmith on Saturday, December 09, 2006 at 02:19. |
| #20 By 22467 (66.98.2.71) at 12/9/2006 6:52:16 AM |
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NotPaker says: "It would seem Firefox is having trouble convincing people to switch to 2.0."
Well, actually FireFox is not telling people to switch to 2.0 at all. I have 1.5, and when you use Check for updates, it says there is nothing new. I only know of 2.0 because I am a geek :) |
| #21 By 28801 (68.81.50.122) at 12/9/2006 9:10:08 AM |
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One thing we are missing is the time of year. These are usage stats taken in November when most normal people (IE users) are either visiting friends and family or at malls shopping for friends and family. That leaves the geeks who have little or no social skills to surf the net with their FF browser loaded with scores of extensions (most of which never get used).
If those usage stats included porn sites FF would be at about 60%. Naturally IE7 is only at 10% most corporations have not upgraded yet. Once that happens, IE7 and IE6 will swap positions. |
| #22 By 15406 (74.104.251.89) at 12/9/2006 3:03:04 PM |
| #18: Cranky today? You should know that he meant *use* as in daily personal use. Technically, every Windows user uses IE, if only to get to Windows Update. I can't stand IE and yet I use it once a month. Of course web designers have to check their work in the major browsers, but that's not what ch was talking about. |
| #23 By 3653 (68.52.143.149) at 12/9/2006 7:49:35 PM |
| welcome back Bob, you cantankerous fukc. |
| #24 By 9589 (71.50.174.17) at 12/10/2006 9:56:38 PM |
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Where I work, our web sites receive hundreds of millions of page views a day from millions of customers and except for the significant uptick of IE7 little has changed from January through November. IE still garners 89%, including all version, with IE 7 now garnering 11% of that total. Poor FF is still in the 5.4 to 5.8% range with Safari below 2% as well as Netscape.
And, like most corporations, we have not deployed IE 7 to our employees (now over 100,000), yet. With hundreds of applications to check against and the end of year approaching it just isn't a priority. However, all programers, IT operations, and help desk have it installed as might be expected. Of course, FF, Safari (run on Mac test workstations) and Netscape are all loaded on these workstations. Sorry, Opera, it just comes in consistently below 1%. |
| #25 By 13030 (198.22.121.110) at 12/11/2006 11:22:36 AM |
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#18: ch, you obviously don't develop or test web applications. Your statement makes about as much sense as saying "I still don't understand how any mp3 player accessory vendor (outside of Apple) would still be using the iPod these days". IE owns its market, so anyone related to that market, if he's worth his salt, uses IE at the very least to develop/test products. iPod owns its market, so anyone related to that market, if he's worth his salt, uses iPod at the very least to develop/test products. Not so hard to understand, now was it?
Latch saw so clearly what was a complete and utter mystery to you: that I'm talking about daily browser use. Just because I say that I only use Windows 2000 and 2003 doesn't mean that I don't test applications I develop on Windows 98 for example. Anyone doing web develop has to test on IE due to its market share and incomplete standards support--I do and I'm sure every developer posting on this site does. (People like you make the warning labels on products necessary... because, if it isn't spelled out, you just won't get it.) What I still don't understand is how I can curtail my previous level of patronage of this site for years and still return to find you touting the same lines. Interesting. The same line being that as a MS shareholder and someone who makes their living off off their products that I hold them to a higher standard. [Special statement for BobSmith: I own shares of Microsoft (MSFT) stock. I use Microsoft applications and, specifically, software development tools as part of my income producing job. Due to my investment in their software products, I desire for them to be of the best quality.] #21: most normal people In other words, no one on this site. |
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