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Java Guru: C# Misses The Point | |
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| Time: 17:50 EST/22:50 GMT | News Source: ZDNet | Posted By: Julien Jay | ||
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Java inventor James Gosling says he isn't losing much sleep over Microsoft these days, despite the software giant's effort to stem Java's popularity with its own Java-like language. The next battle in Web services software development pits Microsoft against Java creator Sun Microsystems, along with Java adherents IBM, Oracle and others. Crucial to Microsoft's effort is C#, a Java-like language that will soon be part of the company's new Visual Studio.Net package of software-development tools, which was released to developers Wednesday. Gosling, a Sun vice president, is dismissive of C# but admits he and others at Sun initially "panicked" when they learned of the language. "The trite answer is, 'Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery--thank you very much,'" he said this week. "But the other answer is, 'You guys (at Microsoft) still don't get it,' because it's sort of Java with reliability, productivity and security deleted." | ||
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| #1 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 1/19/2002 9:25:44 PM |
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From what I can gather from this article James Gosling sits up at night worried about C#.
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| #2 By 1845 (12.254.162.61) at 1/20/2002 12:12:00 AM |
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I believe the loopholes in C# that is talking deal with the ability to write unsafe code. Though this can be thought of as a downfall of C#, it is not a downfall of .NET, since C# unsafe code is not executed via the CLR. Also, the ability to write unsafe code in C# seems really similar to JNI in Java. If I'm not mistaken via JNI you can call code that won't be managed by the JVM via Java code. I don't see this as very different from calling or writing unsafe code with C#.
He says he is an engineer. I say he is a salesman (and not a very good one at that). |
| #3 By 2332 (129.21.145.80) at 1/20/2002 5:10:09 AM |
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Ok guys; let me sum this up for all of you.
One big design goal for .NET was choice; choice in both what you program with and how you program it. Unlike Java, .NET lets you choose exactly what language you want to write your applications in, and even goes so far as to let you seamlessly integrate and inherit from different languages with no detrimental effect. Unlike Java, where the security sandbox is immutable, the .NET sandbox is completely configurable. It comes with a configuration very similar to Java's sandbox, but programmers can "request" certain security access for their applications which the administrator of the network and or machine can grant or deny. Unlike Java, you have the ability to write unsafe code if it better suits your particular needs. There are many times where speed is the very focus of a project, and managed code simply doesn't make sense. While .NET applications typically run 90% - 95% the speed of unmanaged C++, sometimes you need or WANT that extra kick. Unlike Java, you have the ability to write very platform specific code. You can use DirectX, COM+ services, or any other platform specific feature if you need to. There are countless cases where you NEED to have something look JUST so, or NEED to have it meet platform specific requirements. If you want portability, write it to be compliant with the Common Language Spec, if not... that's your CHOICE. Basically, it all comes down to one thing: Should the platform developer tell you what's best for your application, or should you determine that yourself? Microsoft went with the latter, and obviously Mr. Gosling doesn't agree. This post was edited by RMD on Sunday, January 20, 2002 at 05:12. |
| #4 By 415 (68.54.10.120) at 1/20/2002 11:50:17 AM |
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I found this particular excerpt from the article particularly interesting...
"There aren't a lot of people building IDEs (integrated development environments). And IDEs are generally targeted at low-end developers--people who are not experts at writing code. And if you look for tools that are oriented toward (those) people, you basically find nothing. The No. 1 tool (in that area) is Emacs, and I was kind of the guy responsible for the original Emacs, 23 years ago. One of the things I find frightening is it's still around, and in many ways it hasn't really changed. Is that the best you can do for a (low-end) developer? I don't think so. " If he thinks Emacs is still the # 1 tool for beginner developers, he must be a couple pieces short of Legoland! Cookoo, Cookoo!?! And, speaking of Cookoo... Has anyone every read The Cookoo's Egg? It's a true story about an old school Unix hacker. I believe it's also been turned into a PBS special. Anyhow, the hacker used some particularly nasty vulnerability in Emacs to gain access to many of the systems he hacked. See the connection here? Kind of funny ain't it? Some say that many of the security problems that existed in Emacs 10 to 20 years ago still exist today. Iron |
| #5 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 1/20/2002 1:09:49 PM |
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#17 - Emacs is a Richard Stallman production... i.e. the guy responsible for GNU, the GPL and the Software Communists.
I didn't think Gosling had anything to do with it, perhaps he is just saying that's the type of world he likes. He probably prefers the old unix-style printf() debugger as well. |
| #6 By 2332 (129.21.145.80) at 1/20/2002 3:03:32 PM |
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Hehe... *cough*... ya, IDE's are for wannabe-programmers.
Wow, talk about being out of touch with reality. |
| #7 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 1/20/2002 6:38:21 PM |
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JaggedFlame - Line numbers are so 1980's!
STUPIDLOOP: PRINT "I AM STUPID" GOTO STUPIDLOOP :-) |
| #8 By 1845 (12.254.162.61) at 1/20/2002 6:45:42 PM |
| Shouldn't that print statement be System.out.println() ? |
| #9 By 2332 (129.21.145.80) at 1/20/2002 8:26:50 PM |
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while(true)
{ System.Out.PrintLn("I AM STUPID"); { |
| #10 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 1/20/2002 9:29:16 PM |
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#24 - That's the wonder of .Net! We can use any language! I was using QBASIC.NET! :)
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