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Chinese schools ditch Microsoft Office | |
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| Time: 10:59 EST/15:59 GMT | News Source: Silicon | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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A Chinese-made office suite will replace Microsoft Office in Shanghai schools following a raid by anti-piracy officials and a demand to pay licence fees. Chinese-made software suite Kingsoft WPS Office 2003 will replace Microsoft Office applications in Shanghai public schools from the beginning of September, according to Shanghai's education officials. | ||
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| #1 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 8/26/2003 11:15:10 AM |
| Good! I'm glad that MS is doing some serious raids and sweeping up these thieves. |
| #2 By 2332 (216.41.45.78) at 8/26/2003 11:19:15 AM |
| In related news, China ditches Democracy, Capitalism, Human Rights, Free Speech, and Independant Thought. |
| #3 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 8/26/2003 11:41:36 AM |
| What is wrong with the death penalty? Just curious. Not to mention, not every state in the U.S. has the death penalty. In addition, China has death penalties as well. And who claimed that America was a wonderous place. |
| #4 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/26/2003 11:55:02 AM |
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mOOzilla - <I>America aint exactly the wonderus place you claim it to be.</I>
Well I'm a Minnesotan, and we don't have the death penalty. But I will agree that the US has lost the courage it once had in advocating Democracy, Capitalism, Human Rights, Free Speech and Independent Thought. Instead we're quivering in our boots afraid that we might be hurt by these very freedoms we once cherished and lashing out to revoke them. But it's only a handful, we're finding the vast majority of Americans prefer leadership over cowardice. http://www.draftwesleyclark.com/poll.htm |
| #5 By 1124 (165.170.128.65) at 8/26/2003 12:07:23 PM |
| mOOzilla, where are you from? ( Canada, France or England) |
| #6 By 14158 (170.12.2.132) at 8/26/2003 12:56:56 PM |
|
--- m00zilla said: ---
If you cant see whats wrong with a dealth penality, seek help. You hear on the news all this criticism about Arab kingdoms with beheadings and shooting squads in china etc, yet the US doesnt practice what it preaches. At least the EU has a Human Rights Directive and they dont need to piss into a cup for work. ------------------------- Although I agree with you about the death penalty, your comparing US Judicial processes to mass slaughter is just incorrect. The system may not be perfect, but we do have a process, and people are not gunned down in the street en mass for opposing a government view. Sorry, but you're just wrong in your analogy. |
| #7 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/26/2003 1:02:16 PM |
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Its not about courage, its about being part of the global community
Being a part of the global community takes courage. There is no courage involved with refusing to listen to dissenting opinions and being unwilling or unable to express your own point of view in a compelling manner. Anyway, I'm somewhat opposed to the death penalty except in extreme cases. I have no problem with placing war criminals or serial killers to death. I basically expect a very high level of evidence... Hitler, Milosevic, Hussein, Charles Manson... they're all eligible under my state sponsored death penalty. My main concern is we've got to be damned certain, because I think the far worse crime is putting to death an innocent person like they were finding was happening in Illinois. This post was edited by sodablue on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 at 13:07. |
| #8 By 20 (67.9.179.51) at 8/26/2003 1:09:22 PM |
|
Democracy
The U.S. is a Republic or "Representative Democrary" (not quite the same thing, but close enough for this discussion). Though a Repulic involves the "Democratic process". We were the first major modern Democratic-based government and most current Representative governments copy from us as a template. I think the US is the leader here. Capitalism Largest economy in the world by a wide margin, largest number of independently employed workers, etc. I think we have this one down cold. Human Rights Not too great here. Like you said, Death Penalty, we slaughter our young by the millions, etc. However, we do have a really good record of treatment for P.O.W.'s compared with every one of our enemies. The people in G'tmo are treated better than most people on Welfare in major metro cities in the US. One other key thing about HR in America is that we don't gun down or slaughter political dissidents. This sets us (and most our Allies) apart from many countries in the world. Compare this with China who has mandatory assignment of careers, maximum 2 children (with forced abortions or sterilization afterwards), China frequently imprisons or executes political dissidents. Tienimen Square (sp?) is a good example of this. Some would argue that that is "Old China" and there is a "New China", but they still "imprison" political dissidents and who knows what they do to them in the prisons. Soviet gulags come to mind. Free Speech Pretty good here, compared with most nations (especially many European socialist republics). The DMCA is a black eye, but I have a feeling things won't stay like this. The consumers in America are drunk with excess right now and when the DMCA starts cracking down on their rights left and right, you'll start seeing some action against it in the legislature. Americans are slow to anger, but quick to resolution. Independant Thought Is this even a question? Go to Peking and stand in front of the Party headquarters and start talking smack about Mao and see how long you live. Compare this to every damn day, every talk show and news broadcast where Bush is slammed repeatedly (note: see Free Speech above) |
| #9 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/26/2003 1:11:01 PM |
| Glen - Well said. There is a difference between our judicial process and Tieanamen Square. |
| #10 By 13030 (198.22.121.120) at 8/26/2003 1:59:47 PM |
|
#16 moozilla:
"I know where I chose to live. Its one of those countries, if that changes, I move elsewhere , simple." Sounds like a sponge to me... |
| #11 By 1989 (216.145.191.225) at 8/26/2003 2:02:12 PM |
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Moo,
"have great quality of life, low crime rates, a feeling of being part of the community and so on..." Not every place in the US has the crime rate of New York or LA. There are plenty of places in the US that are like that. "People don't NEED weapons. oh its a hobby, yeah right." Have you ever been outside? Ever heard of hunting? I suppose you would suggest using a bow and arrow or something? Some people actually hunt for their food... But anyways, I was also wondering if this software package is available outside China. Curious to see how it compares to Microsoft Office or Open Office... |
| #12 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 8/26/2003 2:30:15 PM |
| Back to the matter at hand...THEFT. Theft is theft, and it is wrong. |
| #13 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 8/26/2003 2:34:10 PM |
| Keeping a gun under the pillow is protecting your family. |
| #14 By 3 (81.106.163.217) at 8/26/2003 2:38:30 PM |
| yay ActivePolictics - well I'm against the death penalty anywhere and everywhere, Life - fine, but there are too many mistakes made in justice systems around the world for there to be a death penalty. |
| #15 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 8/26/2003 3:00:07 PM |
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Say for example, my 10 year old sister was raped, then killed/mutilated and there were witnesses, I would say the death penalty was fair.
If there were no witnesses or maybe only circumstantial evidence or what have you, then no, it's not fair unless it can be proven without a doubt. Which is hard to do when you don't have witnesses to the crime. If you are against the death penalty because there is a potential that a mistake is made, then we should be against prison time as well. Someone who is innocent shouldn't be put to death, and someone who is innocent shouldn't be put in prison. |
| #16 By 3 (81.106.163.217) at 8/26/2003 3:08:36 PM |
| but someone who goes to jail can get released if it is proved an injustice, i don't believe i've read of anyone coming back from the dead. |
| #17 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 8/26/2003 3:12:52 PM |
| but what happens with the life they lost while in jail? Money can't fix that either. I have never heard of anyone getting out of jail, and have the ability to go back in time. |
| #18 By 2332 (216.41.45.78) at 8/26/2003 4:15:28 PM |
|
Anybody who honestly considers China to have even close to the freedom that the United States has absolutely no grasp on reality.
And I'm not some American fanboy either. I'm constantly bitching about the U.S. (See: http://www.robertdowney.com/athought_consensualcrimes.html) I think there are PLENTY of thing wrong with it, but I'm not about to say that China is better or even comparable. As for the death penalty, I'm against it. It does nothing to dissuade further crimes, it does not save money (and even if it did, I'm not willing to kill people to save money - sorry), and there is the potential that we will kill an innocent person. As has been said here previously, you can't take back killing somebody. True, a person can never recover the lost time they've spent rotting in jail, but it's certainly better than killing them. There is a reason "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" is listed in that order... it's a prioritized list. If you're really worried, then give them the option of life in prison or death. If they think life in prison is worse than death, then they can always choose death. The real problem is that we seem to view prison as a way to punish people. It should not be. The point of prison should be to prevent them from re-committing the crime again. If you have a murderer you put them in prison to keep them from murdering more people, not to punish them. It should not be for vengeance. The Law is meant to protect individuals, not to be used as a tool to inflict pain on others. Now, a pretty strong argument can be made for using prison as a deterrent. I’m torn on this issue. I’m sure prison does indeed work as a deterrent for many crimes. But we could also decrease crime by enforcing house arrest on a federal scale. The point is there are a lot of things we can do but that we shouldn’t do because the costs outweigh the gains. Using prison time as a deterrent encourages practices that are not good for liberty, and therefore not good for the United States. I have no problem with killing. Sometimes you have to do it. (War, for instance.) I don’t hold human life to some mystical position. I think we should maximize life, liberty, and happiness… and I believe that to do that we cannot have the government killing people as part of the justice system. I’m not willing to put a price on a human being, and I’m not willing to take actions that cannot be reversed, not matter how sure we are that they are guilty. To put it simply, if you are for the death penalty you are misinformed, vengeful, or greedy to the point where you’re willing to kill people to save money. This post was edited by RMD on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 at 16:22. |
| #19 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 8/26/2003 4:31:51 PM |
|
I'm for the death penalty for the right reasons in the right circumstances. However, I don't think our justice system is qualified to make this judgement with 100% accuracy.
And if our justice system isn't capable of being 100% accurate that it can't determine whether or not the person is guilty of the crime, then there should not be a life in prison, or even a prison sentence at all. Nobody under any circumstance should be put to death if they are innocent of the crime they are accused for. As well, NOBODY under any circumstance should endure ANY prison time for a crime they did not commit. The system needs to be consistent and fair. And it's obvious that it is not, and it is far from it. Innocent until proven guilty is also a HOGWASH term here in the U.S. It's more guilty until proven innocent these days. I used an example earlier when I think someone should be put to death. I stand by that. |
| #20 By 2332 (216.41.45.78) at 8/26/2003 4:46:59 PM |
|
#32 - "Say for example, my 10 year old sister was raped, then killed/mutilated and there were witnesses, I would say the death penalty was fair."
Of course you would. But what if those witnesses were lying? Or perhaps they had something out for this guy? You're willing to have him put to death anyway, so you can feel better... feel like "justice" was done? (In other words, you got your revenge.) You can never be sure. Ever. But of course, we can't live our lives without making decisions. We need to use the best available data to come to a tentative conclusions. (It's called science!) What I'm saying is that a conclusion on something as important as killing somebody simply should not be made when there are alternatives that accomplish the same goal. Unless your goal is vengence, life in prison accomplishes the same thing as the death penalty, and is therefore the best choice. "If you are against the death penalty because there is a potential that a mistake is made, then we should be against prison time as well. Someone who is innocent shouldn't be put to death, and someone who is innocent shouldn't be put in prison." I agree innocent people shouldn't be imprisoned, but we can never have a perfect justice system. We can't have pure anarchy because we're afraid we might imprison an innocent person. There is no viable alternative (or, at least, none that I've heard) to imprisoning people that are convicted of a crime. Could they be innocent? Yes. Which is exactly why our justice system is set up (or should be) in favor of the accused, not of the accuser. This post was edited by RMD on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 at 16:48. |
| #21 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 8/26/2003 4:53:47 PM |
|
#25:
If you were a good parent, you would know how to protect your children from accessing or using your weapon. Do some research on how to do this. I have. Were you aware that cities that have passed laws that allow conceal and carry have proven statistics that show drops in violence? And those that HAD conceal and carry laws that were overturned had an increase in violence? And did you know there were no INCREASES in accidental shootings? And were you aware that in order to conceal and carry, you needed to take courses and get a license to conceal? And you hit the nail on the head. Most people will not be empty handed. And I will be there to protect my children. I have a license, I have training, I have my weapon properly placed, and I have my weapon protected from allowing my children from getting hurt. Like I said, do some research and you will find out how. |
| #22 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 8/26/2003 5:00:42 PM |
|
I'm sorry RMD, but while your speculations are logical, our system is not. You cannot have one and not the other. If you can conclude that someone should do life in prison without parole because they are guilty of a crime, then you should be able to offer a death sentence if the crime fits. If you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt (100%) accuracy, then we shouldn't imprison that person because they might be innocent.
We need to focus on improving our justice system and PREVENTING these crimes. There is no viable alternative You or I don't know that. (btw, revenge is a natural response) |
| #23 By 2332 (216.41.45.78) at 8/26/2003 5:31:29 PM |
|
If you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt (100%) accuracy, then we shouldn't imprison that person because they might be innocent.
I think you're missing the point. The goal of our government is to provide a framework that supports "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". With that being the overriding goal, we must be able to restrict the liberties of some in order to preserve the liberties of others. Because there is the option of life in prison instead of death, the choice should be life in prision because it does the least to restrict the overriding goal for the individual, while maximizing the overriding goal for the society as a whole. We need to focus on improving our justice system and PREVENTING these crimes. Fine, I'm sure there is plenty we could do, and as long as they fit within this framework, I'm all for them. You or I don't know that. Your point? Until we do know, we can only act on the information we have. When new information is discovered, we can re-evaluate. (revenge is a natural response) Sure, and murder is a natural response to extreme anger, but does that make it right? This post was edited by RMD on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 at 17:32. |
| #24 By 1845 (12.209.152.69) at 8/26/2003 6:13:22 PM |
|
RMD,
I have great respect for your intelligence and your reasoning, and I've demonstrated that in the past. I wonder about a few points of your argument. Anybody who honestly considers China to have even close to the freedom that the United States has absolutely no grasp on reality. This sounds like hyperbole to me. While some might say that's not a logical fallacy, I do. Also, hyperbole or no, this sounds like ad hominem. You have a particular frame of reference in which you define "freedom." Isn't it possible that there could be opposing definitions, which might make your statement false? OK, even if they're aren't such definitions, it still seems that you should qualify the statement by saying something like "no grasp on reality with respect to the freedoms (and perhaps enumerate them) which the United States provides and China does not." If you're really worried, then give them the option of life in prison or death. If they think life in prison is worse than death, then they can always choose death. OK, if you are totally opposed to the death penalty, then this is still not an option. If you are proposing to offer this as an option, then by your argument you are "are misinformed, vengeful, or greedy to the point where you’re willing to kill people to save money." Perhaps I misunderstand you, but it seem clear to me that you just attacked yourself. I have no problem with killing. Sometimes you have to do it. (War, for instance.) I wonder in what other instances you can justify killing. I assume you meant killing human beings? I also wonder how you can justify war and not justify the death penalty. For this to make sense to me, I'd need to see the reasons which you think justify war. I have a hunch that on a smaller scale, those can be applied to using the death penalty. From a very abstract perspective, I'd think, since you can never be sure of anything, then you have to base your actions on an exhaustive search and evaluation of all available data. If after such an evaluation, your criteria for war justification are met, could such an evaluation also occur during a murder trial to justify the death penalty? If we can be so sure of something that we will go to war and probably kill at least a few hundred, why can't a similar system be used to be sufficiently sure a person is guilty of murder, so that he can be executed? Please understand that I'm not attacking you, I'm looking for clarification of your statements. |
| #25 By 3653 (63.162.177.143) at 8/26/2003 6:17:58 PM |
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I would LOVE to live in a world where no one died at the hands of another... either through murder or through the death penalty. And I dont completely buy in to the argument that capital punishment is a deterrent. However, I look at it from a fiscal standpoint. Yeah, I know that is cold, but I dont have a murderer in my family, or a family member thats been murdered... so my point of reference is cold by nature. When you think about it fiscally... its ridiculous that we keep the worst criminals in prison for life. They must average 30 years (@ $30k/year) or $1M. Imagine putting that money into our schools. The worst killers are continuing to hurt society, long after the blood is washed off their hands. They are taking a good education away from those who need it most.
Clear out the death rows... and build a college! Just a thought... This post was edited by mooresa56 on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 at 18:20. |
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