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Linux creator an open source | |
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| Time: 01:51 EST/06:51 GMT | News Source: E-Mail | Posted By: Todd Richardson | ||
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Linus Torvalds is the creator of the Linux operating system, the open source version of Unix that is sweeping through the software world in a direct challenge to Microsoft. He is a technical leader and an outspoken advocate of open source development, which allows software users to develop and modify their own versions of software for free. He spoke candidly with Mercury News staff writer Dean Takahashi about the lawsuit from SCO Group versus IBM (where Big Blue is accused of illegally putting Unix code into Linux), on Microsoft and open source development. He also shed light on his decision to leave chip maker Transmeta for a Linux corporate software consortium, the Open Source Development Lab. | ||
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| #1 By 9589 (66.57.63.97) at 7/6/2003 6:28:24 AM |
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Nothing to see here folks. Transmeta, with Torvalds help, manages to take its share price from near $30 to a buck fifty in a couple of years and Torvalds is bailing to greener (literally) pasture - the OSDL. And while Torvalds got his, billions of dollars of share holder value went down the tubes. Move along now . . .
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| #2 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/6/2003 11:05:53 AM |
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Its amazing how people here can take an actually interesting informative article and leverage it for bashing linux just because its not pro Microsoft.
jdhawk: nowhere in this article does it state that Torvalds got "billions". Actually the article shows a quite different picture. Could you please show us the source you used to determine he "got his billions"? mOOzilla: Linux is not hanging on to legcy for image sakes. That is at best your opinion and interpretation and should be stated as such. I do agree with you that its fragmented but some people view that as a good thing. Also maybe you dont think it's good enough, but some people out there seem to think so, an increasing number actually. It hasn't reached critical mass yet, thats why parker can continue to show us his google stats of 1%. Who knows if it ever will. But its a fun ride in the meantime, although maybe not to you :) |
| #3 By 135 (208.50.204.91) at 7/6/2003 11:49:00 AM |
| And once again tgnb takes sides in an issue, instead of the middle ground. |
| #4 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/6/2003 12:05:43 PM |
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sodablue LOL - please don't even bother to show how i took sides because you couldnt possibly. Like i said before.. just because I say positive things about Linux doesn't mean i am taking sides. Just because its not pro MS doesn't mean I am taking sides.
mOOzilla: I agree some linux folks should be utilizing xml etc rather than hang on to text config files. But in my opinion they don't hang on to that legacy for image sake as you have said. I also agree that there are lots of areas where Linux and its surrounding projects are antiquated and could be improved. But lots of improvement has happened over a short period of time. I'm quite happy with Gentoo's innovation. And no, not everything people say here is their opinion. People often state things here as fact often without a source to back themselves up. Therefore its quite necessary to differenciate when you just speak of your opinion. |
| #5 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/6/2003 1:09:53 PM |
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mOOzilla: " Theyre hanging onto it for the similarity of Unix."
While this may have been true originally I don't believe this is the case anymore. Maybe the SCO case will help them move away from some of the outdated UNIX concepts in favor for some new and fresh ones. I believe that the reason that certain things such as tree structure, commands etc were originally created to mimic Unix. It still works for them and they feel there are other areas where they want to innovate. Until it becomes important to enough people to innovate new ways in that area they will stay the same. But this doesn't mean they are hanging on to it just for the similarity. It was created for the similarity .. or maybe for familiarity.. but they hang on to it because it still works. Anyway, thats my take on it. As for the similarity in name, i believe Linux is more similar to Linus than it is to Unix. As for the rest of your comment I agree 100%. I do want to point out that "Linux" the kernel is not even hanging on to that tree structure, I believe its the distributions or other projects that would need to tackle such issues. In regards to the Article however I think that at least Linus gave straight forward answers and i respect that. I think that some of his answers are a bit naive however. I think although it might not be a smart thing to steal a car in broad daylight, some people do it anyways. This post was edited by tgnb on Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 13:19. |
| #6 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/6/2003 1:22:50 PM |
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mOOzilla, lots of companies (including Microsoft) go with "good enough", believe it or not. Companies would go out of business very fast if they would try to release the "perfect" project because they could not survive the amount of time it would take to get there. Thats why on the road there "good enough" releases are sold. Thats just the way the economy at this point works. This post was edited by tgnb on Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 13:26. |
| #7 By 135 (208.50.204.91) at 7/6/2003 1:25:05 PM |
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tgnb - "Like i said before.. just because I say positive things about Linux doesn't mean i am taking sides."
But somehow saying postive things about Windows implies that I am taking sides? LOL! BTW, I can already feel the mighty tgnb brush of stereotyping running down my back, even though I haven't commented on this article. :) mOOzilla - You're right, there is a lot of valid criticism of Linux and the poor choices made in it's development history. The big-ball-of-mud software architecture, the inneficient brute-force-hacking model of development, etc. Tannebaum made some of these same arguments with Torvalds in the early days, and Torvalds attitude then was "it works". I think this attitude is shown even in this article. If you're expecting major innovations, look elsewhere. You won't find it down this path. tgnb and others confuse that opinion of mine as being somehow negative towards Linux. It's not, I understand fully that some people don't care about cool and fun software. It's all about what choices we make. |
| #8 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/6/2003 1:48:27 PM |
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mOO i want something that "works well" as does everyone else.
sodablue: "But somehow saying postive things about Windows implies that I am taking sides?" Nope. Saying positive things about Microsoft doesn't imply you are taking sides. But statements such as the ones in the "list of shame" DO imply you are taking sides. |
| #9 By 3653 (209.149.57.116) at 7/6/2003 2:26:32 PM |
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anyone read anything about this hacker defacement event this weekend? I cant get any more info on it, but I did randomly land on an apparent victim...
http://www.austinconventioncenter.com |
| #10 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/6/2003 2:45:32 PM |
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mooresa56: see attrition.org for a sane view on the defacement challenge view
mOO: XFree != Gnu/Linux therefore i don't see why you would claim that one has more freedom to innovate on any other platform. Even the guy who was kicked from the XFree project is not being stopped from innovating. He can fork XFree and create his own version and if it is more innovative more people will start to use it. There are quite a few XFree forks. |
| #11 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/6/2003 4:28:34 PM |
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JaggedFlame, what are you? sodablue's mom? You gonna tell my dad if I post his quotes one more time?
Also: "JaggedFlame stop your obsessive stalking me please." I was just poking sarcastic fun :) guess it went over your head. The quotes in the list of shame aren't out of context.. I'm not gonna provide links just because you are too lazy to look it up for yourself. Each and every line that is quoted in my list can easily be looked within the Activewin posts. You say I'm trolling yet you are the one starting the flames in this thread (and others). "I'm perfect" nonsense." Yes, you are right about that, you ARE perfect nonsense. I wonder why you are so exasperated about the list :) I must be hitting a nerve eh? The best way to stop me from posting it is for sodablue to stop making comments that fit perfectly in it :) This post was edited by tgnb on Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 16:38. |
| #12 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/6/2003 7:10:52 PM |
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JaggedFlame:
"when you failed to articulate it clearly on an Internet forum where I can't look at your facial expressions." LOL "I'm sure other people, like myself, are tired of you constantly singling people out as zealots." And I'm sure other people like myself are tired of sodablues constant bashing of anything that is not 100% pro MS "Who was the one who attacked mOOzilla as a zealot to begin this thread?" It wasn't me. You must have misread. Try again. I never called mOO a zealot and don't think I will unless he changes dramatically. "My point is, who the hell cares if someone's a zealot or not?" I do. And lots of other people who are distracted by the zealot's spewing too. "No, you're not really hitting a nerve. I was "poking sarcastic fun." Must be over your head. :)" I guess it did :) Maybe you just failed to articulate it clearly on an Internet forum where I can't look at your facial expressions. Well done. [rolls eyes] |
| #13 By 135 (208.50.204.91) at 7/6/2003 7:12:01 PM |
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Hey, I never said I didn't say what tgnb claims I said! I most certainly did. But while he takes the quotes out of context, what I find irritating is he doesn't put forth any arguments as to why he thinks I might be wrong.
mOOzilla - Righto! All we're asking for is software that doesn't suck! This post was edited by sodablue on Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 19:12. |
| #14 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/6/2003 7:22:41 PM |
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mOOzilla:
"XFree is opensource right? So my comments regarding that still stands. If there are quite a few forks on xfree, why not let him create another one? They didnt, thats the problem, no harm in forking. Sure he can do his stuff locally or start a new repository but that is besides the point." Maybe you misunderstood. There ARE other forks of XFree. He IS allowed to create a fork just like anyone else. To the best of my knowledge anyone can take the sourcecode of any opensource project and create a fork. I don't think its possible to dissalow him? If i am wrong, please feel free to correct me :), but thats how I understand it. "When you install a "Linux" distro, do you not get XFree? If not, what the hell have I got on this "Linux" Platform that I installed, Scotch mist?" Well generally you get XFree with your distro. But you are free to choose not to install it and use one of the other alternatives. "Dont blame me for the confusion, blame those branding it as "Linux" when infact it is not entirely accurate but its something that has to be lived with as its a BRAND now. Its recognised as "Linux". Just as windows is recognised as "Windows" whether its Server, Desktop or whaever flavour, people just see the "Windows" brand. That is why we need conformity and standardisation on this "platform" we call "Linux" so people can relate to that across various distros. This is something that must be resolved to get anywhere on the desktop." I don't blame you and I agree. "When you go to a book store and pick up a book for this "Linux" platform, it isnt called GNU/Linux on the cover is it, NO, its called "Linux" and that is what people relate to. Its BRANDING." No need to capitalize it. I understand and I agree. However sometimes in a forum such as this its necessary to differenciate the 2. Linux the kernel and Linux the distro just for the sake of understanding one another. There is an additonal problem. Lots of times when people talk about Linux they talk not about the kernel and not even about the distributions. They talk about Redhat because it is the most common one. However this is completely wrong to do because Redhat is in many ways different from Debian and Gentoo. So when someone talks about that darned RPM hell in Linux that doesnt even apply to anyone using a non RPM based distro. "I don't want to care whether its RedHat , or MDK or Slackware, I just want to see "Linux"." Hmmm maybe you do. I happen to disagree there. Some Linux distributions are too different to put them under the same hat. |
| #15 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/6/2003 7:29:12 PM |
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sodablue: "Hey, I never said I didn't say what tgnb claims I said! I most certainly did. But while he takes the quotes out of context, what I find irritating is he doesn't put forth any arguments as to why he thinks I might be wrong."
A) They aren't taken out of context B) There is no point in showing you why I think you are wrong. Those quotes speak for themselves. |
| #16 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/7/2003 12:31:03 AM |
| JaggedFlame: What was your point in this thread again? Oh yeah I remember, you didnt have one. Go ahead accuse me of distracting. People who read this thread can make up their own mind about who's the distraction. |
| #17 By 135 (208.50.204.91) at 7/7/2003 1:45:52 AM |
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bonch - Have you ever looked at the Oracle Internet Filesystem? Basically it was an SMB server that sits on top of Oracle and uses the Oracle database for it's storage.
I guess I'm picturing something similar, only easy to use and not taking days to install. :) tgnb - They were most certainly taken out of context, you missed all the rest of my troll! |
| #18 By 7797 (64.244.109.161) at 7/7/2003 6:33:21 AM |
| JaggedFlame: Go look at this thread again. I was already commenting when you started to attack me. I started it by posting the list? Go away, I didnt post the list in this thread and I will only post it again if sodablue makes another remark that will go on it. So first you attack me in this thread, then you claim I called mOOzilla a zealot (which is a lie) followed by blaming it all on the list I posted in other threads. LOL good work man. And finally you claim I ignore your comments to the story.. Did you comment on mine? |
| #19 By 7797 (63.76.44.252) at 7/7/2003 4:54:24 PM |
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JaggedFlame: "Did you miss the part where you accused mOOzilla of "taking an actually interesting informative article and leverage it for bashing linux just because its not pro Microsoft"?"
Yeah I missed that. go look at that post. I didnt say that too mOOzilla. It was in reply to this idiotic post: "Nothing to see here folks. Transmeta, with Torvalds help, manages to take its share price from near $30 to a buck fifty in a couple of years and Torvalds is bailing to greener (literally) pasture - the OSDL. And while Torvalds got his, billions of dollars of share holder value went down the tubes. Move along now . . . " "Or how about comment #23 or #38? Where I directly respond to your point or one someone else has made? " What about those posts. Look again. #23 you dont respond to any points i made about the article and in 38 you also didnt respond to me. So you DID ignore my comments and instead attacked me in this thread. "No, first you post the list somewhere else, inciting sodablue to react and counter-attack you in other threads, like this one." Again, who are you? sodablue's mom? His defender? His superhero? This post was edited by tgnb on Monday, July 07, 2003 at 17:02. |
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