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Halo 2 News | |
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| Time: 15:46 EST/20:46 GMT | News Source: Bungie.Net | Posted By: Anthony Darr | ||
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We're still not ready to pick a specific release date, but we do want to state for the record that Halo 2 will not ship in 2003. This game is a vast undertaking, considerably more complex than any of our previous efforts, and there is just no way to squeeze all of the necessary work into this calendar year. We know many of you were hoping to get your hands on Halo 2 during the holiday season, and we're sorry to disappoint you - but making this game as good as we possibly can is our paramount concern. Microsoft understands and supports our decision, and we hope you will too. Our ultimate goal is to make Halo 2 a great game; when the game comes out next year, we think you'll agree we made the right choice. | ||
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| #1 By 665 (64.126.91.172) at 3/7/2003 4:03:28 PM |
| Ouch.. that is going to leave a mark. |
| #2 By 3339 (67.119.194.4) at 3/9/2003 7:29:26 PM |
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Anon, you don't get it....
Bungies was a company that coud produce a couple of simple oldschool games that offered great game play while focusing on making the best game they could every three or four years and still be a profitable game developer. Between anticipation and selling at the top for over two years, they would have nothing to fear. Just because Microsoft bought them and need a Halo game every 1.5 to two years to keep their crappy console afloat doesn't mean Bungie is a poor developer. It means Microsoft didn't really consider what they were getting into. |
| #3 By 37 (66.168.16.248) at 3/9/2003 9:56:34 PM |
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"two years to keep their crappy console afloat"
ROFL! You just don't get it, do you SodaJerk :-) Some day my friend, you will learn. |
| #4 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/10/2003 12:25:33 AM |
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What part am I not getting, Brian?
You may not like the "crappy" part, but I don't care... My point holds.... There is no reason to blame Bungie--they are traditionally slow at developing the core game because they attend to quality. If softies are going to bitch, bitch at MS for promising it early. For making their audience think that if they only have one good game, they'll at least deliver a sequel every two years. I don't see how I am off if people are anticipating it, saying it is the best franchise and major determining factor/most-have game ((Halo is still one of the top selling games; Halo2 is actually also in the top selling games because some are accepting pre-orders--however, the anticipated date is set for 10/03... I guess that needs to change, huh?), and hoping that it does spark more game dev'ers and box sales. This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, March 10, 2003 at 00:26. |
| #5 By 7390 (63.211.44.114) at 3/10/2003 3:19:45 AM |
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Jerky boy, in general we not are bitching. We are happy that the game is delayed if it leads to a better game (which seems to be the case). Halo being the flagship game for the Xbox and with the holiday sales being all important, naturally we thought that it would be released this year. Disppointed would be a more accurate description.
Soda, what is crappy about the Xbox? why don't you present a logical argument for your case. |
| #6 By 7390 (63.211.44.114) at 3/10/2003 7:52:07 AM |
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I am one the biggest Halo fans around but I didn't preorder my copy of Halo2. It doesn't make sense preordering something that far in advance. Granted you may not get a copy on the very first day but in general you will find a copy that first week.
And yes should they get their money back or have the that option. But I am guessing that there is a clause in the agreement that covers delays. |
| #7 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/10/2003 2:34:35 PM |
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Anon, that was actually EXACTLY my point. If you feel in need, take up the problem with MS. MS has much more to be concerned about than producing a high-quality award winning game every three to four years, but that's exactly what defines and makes Bungie.
If MS does pressure them to speed it along (or worse dump the PC/Mac versions), it will just cause resentment and defections within the apparently preserved Bungie unit. I don't think Bungie should be rushed or compromised (that's why I like their stuff), but I do think it's a problem for MS. It's a dilemma... one that bites MS in the ass, but the only way it hurts Bungie is MS responds by applying more pressure than they already have. |
| #8 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/10/2003 4:51:11 PM |
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Anon, the problem is the PC game market is still bigger than the console market. The PC game market drives the PC hardware market. Bungie was a Mac/PC game developer and when they were bought by MS they were told they would continue PC game development.
Force them to double the speed of their development cycle or force them to drop the dev work that is their roots, their bread and butter, their real joy and purpose, and all you will do is drive all of the talent out of the group. What would Halo2 look like if MS chased all of the talent out of Bungie? Isn't Halo what it is because of Bungie? Isn't Bungie simply doing their best to deliver the maximum amount of revenue at what they do best (no matter what segment it is) whether or not MS wants to corner the console? Dance with the one who brought you? Bungie was already well-respected and great before they were swallowed... If they dance the dance that is MS XBox game development, wouldn't that mean they would produce an unspectalur, unimpressive title that no one care about, never mind bought a console for? Bungie, keep dancing your own dance. |
| #9 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 3/10/2003 5:10:05 PM |
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SodaJerk,
"What part am I not getting, Brian?" I would say, all of it? "You may not like the "crappy" part, but I don't care... " 1. Do you own an Xbox? 2. Are you aware that MS will have over 10 million Xboxes sold in almost a 2 year time frame? 3. Are you aware that Xbox Live is outselling PS2's Broadband product? And Xbox requires Broadband. And Xbox Requires a subscription where as PS 2 doesn't have a subscription fee? 4. Were you aware that the Xbox outperforms the PS2 and Nintendo in performance and of course, hardware? I am willing to bet that you don't OWN an Xbox, so I would like to question, what is crappy about the Xbox? "My point holds.... " No, your point doesn't hold. "There is no reason to blame Bungie--they are traditionally slow at developing the core game because they attend to quality." Correct, there is no reason to blame anyone. They are spending more time making the product more robust and more stable. That is a good thing. But MS isn't relying on Halo 2. MS has had some great releases, and 2003 has double the releases that they had last year, coming out. Did you know the DOA Volleyball was the best selling game in Japan when it came out? That was just released this year. Did you see the sales of Tom Clancey's Splinter Cell are catching up with Halo sales in the same time frame?! There are many great games for the Xbox, and many great ones coming out. MS doesn't NEED Halo 2, but it would have been a bonus. "If softies are going to bitch, bitch at MS for promising it early. For making their audience think that if they only have one good game, they'll at least deliver a sequel every two years." MS never promised it early. Nice spin though. Please provide me a quote showing that MS promised Halo 2 in 2003. "I don't see how I am off if people are anticipating it," You just don't get it, do you? "saying it is the best franchise and major determining factor/most-have game ((Halo is still one of the top selling games; Halo2 is actually also in the top selling games because some are accepting pre-orders--however, the anticipated date is set for 10/03... I guess that needs to change, huh?), " Yup, it does need to be updated. But MS always states that those dates are not concrete. If MS didn't post a date, they would receive just as much, if not more criticism. Damned if you, damned if you don't. "and hoping that it does spark more game dev'ers and box sales." There are plenty of sparks. The games coming out for the Xbox this year alone are just incredible. " don't think Bungie should be rushed or compromised (that's why I like their stuff), but I do think it's a problem for MS." But thats just not true. It's not a problem for either one of them, other than guaranteed revenue this year. MS has plenty more games to carry it throughout this year. PS2 will not be porting Halo, so Halo 2 will still generate even more Xbox Sales next year when it's released. Imagine 20+ million Xboxes out there, and the number of Halo 2 sales..it's just mind boggling. |
| #10 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/11/2003 12:20:16 PM |
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Brian, you say: ""What part am I not getting, Brian?"
I would say, all of it?" I would say far from it--you have one view on one side, anon over here has another extreme view, and my view is that Bungie is critical to MS but fcking with Bungie is just going to hurt the XBox. You say everyone loves lots of other games, the drool dripping from anonymous's mouth tells me otherwise. You say MS doesn't have to screw with Bungie, anon says they need to double their salaries, whatever. I don't see how my view is any more unrealistic than either one of your craptastic perspectives. |
| #11 By 7390 (63.211.44.114) at 3/11/2003 1:08:42 PM |
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Anon, please watch your language. I have disagreed with SodaJerk many times but I will not resort to demeaning names and to his credit neither has he.
Soda, you never answered Brian's question. 1. Do you own an Xbox? 2. Are you aware that MS will have over 10 million Xboxes sold in almost a 2 year time frame? 3. Are you aware that Xbox Live is outselling PS2's Broadband product? And Xbox requires Broadband. And Xbox Requires a subscription where as PS 2 doesn't have a subscription fee? 4. Were you aware that the Xbox outperforms the PS2 and Nintendo in performance and of course, hardware? Jerky, let me get this straight you would rather MS/Bungie try to get Halo2 out this holiday season with possible defects rather than getting it right? I know that you are not saying that. |
| #12 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/11/2003 1:38:05 PM |
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Red, typical weirdness: "Jerky, let me get this straight you would rather MS/Bungie try to get Halo2 out this holiday season with possible defects rather than getting it right?
I know that you are not saying that." No, I am not, clearly--I began my post simply to respond to the person who was b!tching about Bungie... I don't see a problem with them at all. In addition to supporting Bungie, I am pointing out that XBox faces major issues with availability of marquee games. As for the questions: 1. Do you own an Xbox? No, so what. I don't like it why would I own it. I have played a number of games a number of times on the Box. 2. Are you aware that MS will have over 10 million Xboxes sold in almost a 2 year time frame? Actually no, it's still not 9 million, so what. It's under their own estimates and isn't relevent to the topic. 3. Are you aware that Xbox Live is outselling PS2's Broadband product? And Xbox requires Broadband. And Xbox Requires a subscription where as PS 2 doesn't have a subscription fee? Actually, it's not. It's selling faster, but PS2's kit had a big lead. XBL opened in Europe before PS2's did--I would imagine the PS2 lead will experience an upsurge again. What does broadband have to do with it? What does a subscription have to do with it? That you are getting suckered for the joy of having your score saved? 4. Were you aware that the Xbox outperforms the PS2 and Nintendo in performance and of course, hardware? Completely questionable--I haven't seen a game which is substantially better on the XBox, and quality of graphics has nothing to do with quality of game play... About the only thing that can be said to be true to this claim is that it makes the XBox substantially more expensive. Happy, Red? |
| #13 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 3/11/2003 2:27:33 PM |
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"1. Do you own an Xbox?
No, so what. I don't like it why would I own it. I have played a number of games a number of times on the Box. " You don't like it because it's Microsoft. I am willing to bet that almost all of the 10 million users DO enjoy their Xbox. I am one of them. "2. Are you aware that MS will have over 10 million Xboxes sold in almost a 2 year time frame? Actually no, it's still not 9 million, so what. It's under their own estimates and isn't relevent to the topic." Actually, YES. I said in ALMOST a 2 year time frame. They will easily exceed 10 million in the next few months. "3. Are you aware that Xbox Live is outselling PS2's Broadband product? And Xbox requires Broadband. And Xbox Requires a subscription where as PS 2 doesn't have a subscription fee? Actually, it's not. It's selling faster, but PS2's kit had a big lead. XBL opened in Europe before PS2's did--I would imagine the PS2 lead will experience an upsurge again. What does broadband have to do with it? What does a subscription have to do with it? That you are getting suckered for the joy of having your score saved?" Actually, it is. In actual numbers sold, no. Percentage of Live kits sold vs. the actual gaming device, yes. Sony has a 1.2% ratio of live units sold, where has the Xbox has 3.88% penetration. That ratio is 3 TIMES that of Sony's penetration. "4. Were you aware that the Xbox outperforms the PS2 and Nintendo in performance and of course, hardware?" Completely questionable--I haven't seen a game which is substantially better on the XBox, and quality of graphics has nothing to do with quality of game play... About the only thing that can be said to be true to this claim is that it makes the XBox substantially more expensive." But it's not questionable. PS2 = $199.00. Xbox = $199.00. Xbox has an 8gig hard drive, Sony has a 0gig hard drive. Xbox has four controller ports, Sony has 2 controller ports. Xbox has a built in ethernet port for connecting multiple boxes for gaming and live play, Sony has nothing on its console. Xbox is broadband only, eliminating a majority of the live lag, Sony is known for lag at almost all times because of the dialup users. Xbox allows you to add your own music tracks to games or play them from the hard drive, Sony you cannot. Xbox allows you to download live content to add features and levels to game (ie Splinter Cell), Sony you cannot. The Xbox has an excellent hardware configuration. The Xbox A 700 Mhz Intel processor combined with buttloads of system RAM and a GeForce 3 equivalent Nvidia graphics processor, Sony doesn't offer HALF this power with it's Emotion Engine. Xbox is already using the DVD format for their games, while only a few titles have done so on the PS2. DVD quality is superior to PS2's non DVD games. The Xbox is just more powerful and provides more opportunities for developers. Beyond the constraints of hardware, it is up to developers to make good games. What is the point of this? It was YOU that said the Xbox is crap. **I** was addressing that comment. Did you forget already? The items I mention above actually show that the Xbox is FAR from crap. And I *DO* own one. "You say everyone loves lots of other games, the drool dripping from anonymous's mouth tells me otherwise. " I already made point of this, or did you miss that? Have you looked at the sales figures of DOA Volleyball, SplinterCell, Project Gotham Racing, Unreal Championship, etc? There are millions of people out there looking forward to games OTHER than Halo and Halo 2. Do some research SodaJerk...again, I just can't comprehend how someone such as yourself can even come close to having a point, when you don't even know the facts. So Red, are you happy yet? ;-) We should offer SodaJerk a <cluestick> ;-) |
| #14 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/11/2003 2:56:42 PM |
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Brian, I'm fully informed, I just disagree. I love your retarded MS Makreting speak.
"Actually, YES. I said in ALMOST a 2 year time frame." Uh, okay, someday... I don't like FUD or vapor though. "Actually, it is. In actual numbers sold, no. Percentage of Live kits sold vs. the actual gaming device, yes. Sony has a 1.2% ratio of live units sold, where has the Xbox has 3.88% penetration. That ratio is 3 TIMES that of Sony's penetration." That's not outselling, dude. That's selling very few products and having a high attach rate for another product. Their are more network kits for PS2 sold than for XBox. And there are more PS2s sold than XBoxes. MS has a higher attach rate for games too--so what? There are still ten times as many PS2 games sold. "It was YOU that said the Xbox is crap." Yes, I did. Describing a bunch of components doesn't change my view. A game console is not judged on a hard drive--it's judged on the games, developers, community, console, game play, etc... PS2 kicks the crap out of what the Box can offer. |
| #15 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 3/11/2003 3:31:51 PM |
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How is it that you are fully informed? I'm curious as to how you can disagree with FACTS?
Someday? You are saying that in the time frame that the Xbox has been out, which is about a year and a half, that having 9 million users at this juncture doesn't mean that 10 million in a two year time frame is conceivable? That is an AVERAGE of 500,000 Xboxes a month. No FUD, no vapor. Just math. And no fuzzy math either. Take 18 months, divide that by 9 million users and voila! Technically you are correct about "outselling". I should have stated, selling FASTER and at a higher attach rate. Not to mention, the $50 Subscription fee required. And yes, MS does have a higher attach rate than Sony for it's games, as well as it's LIVE time that users spend playing over the networks. There are 10 times as many PS2 games sold because: 1. PS2 came out before the Xbox by a year 2. PS1 came out before the Xbox by 4 years? 3. PS1 games can be played on PS2 4. PS2 has a huge Japanese market, from where the game originates Keep in mind that the Xbox is widely popular in the US, from where it originates. Not to mention outselling PS2 in Australia now. The European market is also very favorable of the Xbox. Of course describing a bunch of components wouldn't change *your* point of view. You are blind to the facts. The facts I gave you were not judged by it's hard drive, it's judged by what the hard drive has to offer the gamer. And what the superior hardware in general has to offer the gamers. This offers developers much more freedom with their game design. As it stands now, the PS2 couldn't port the Halo game with the quality that the Xbox has, no matter how many developers the PS2 has or how good/bad they are...it just doesn't have the hardware. The superior developers that Xbox has, the HUGE growing community that Xbox has (including an it's LIVE fans), it's better console, and better graphics and game play make the Xbox SPANK the PS2. If we went by your reasoning, we would have to say that the Ford F150 is the best vehicle in the world because it sells more vehicles than any other vehicle in the world. That means more people drive them, making their community a bigger community. But, there are **many** more qualified candidates out there that offer a BETTER vehicle than the Ford F Series. An example would be to look at the second best selling vehicle in the world, the Chevrolet Silverado. They sell about 100,000 less vehicles per year than the Ford F Series. Yet, the Chevrolet Silverado is: 1. More expensive 2. Has a higher customer loyalty 3. Has a longer life 4. Has more powerful engines 5. Has a higher JD Power and Associates Quality Rating 6. Wins all Car & Driver and Motortrend truck comparisons and has been in the top 10 vehicles of the year for Car and Driver for the past 3 years, where the best selling F Series has not been. EVER. BEST selling and broadest customer base (goes with out saying) doesn't make for the BETTER product. The same holds true for the PS2. *Research* SodaJerk, *Research*. This post was edited by Brian_MS_MVP on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 at 15:36. |
| #16 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/11/2003 4:16:10 PM |
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Brian, I'm, not going to rehash most of your silliness because it's mosty wishful thinking and I've answered most of this before.
However: "If we went by your reasoning, we would have to say that the Ford F150 is the best vehicle in the world because it sells more vehicles than any other vehicle in the world." I never said such a thing. IF you would have noticed, I'm not big on the idea of being the largest selling, never mind equating volume with quality. I was taking everything as a whole... Which, in part, is why I can say GameCube is a success and XBox is a failure--their goals and aspirations are different. You are blowing such smoke: "The superior developers that Xbox has..." BULLSH1T (as I've said the Bungie guys are the only ones--I can think of ten times as many great products on the PS2 than on the Box) "...the HUGE growing community that Xbox" which is 1/5 or 1/6 of the community of the PS2.... Silly. Let's look at the bigger picture: MS is sinking billions into XBox... It hasn't attracted anything stellar in terms of exclusive content, the best content they have they had to buy and in the process kill off portions of that developers original revenue source, the best content is on the PS2, six times as many people are likely to own a PS2 than an XBox--that is a community, the hardware isn't being used for anything special (I've seen the equivalent on other consoles and better on PC games), that hardware is alienating their partners and is likely to never be profitable when the other console makers are profiting, they are likely to be a year behind the PS3, the small successes the XBox has had has come at the cost of exorbitant marketing or discounting or exclusivity that cannot be sustained. In other words, there's more than volume when I said: "it's judged on the games, developers, community, console, game play, etc... PS2 kicks the crap out of what the Box can offer." |
| #17 By 7390 (63.211.44.114) at 3/11/2003 4:46:35 PM |
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Ok folks, let us give SodaJerk a break, it seems that he comprehend the facts as Brian has stated. I don't get his point. He stated that the Xbox is crap yet in technical aspects it is superior to the PS1/2.
He is saying that not having the Halo2 for the Holiday seasons spells doom. Yes WE XBOX OWNERS think otherwise. Are we disappointed YES, but we certainly don't want a crappy rushed product. By all accounts the Xbox has met all sales projections (I am not sure about Japan). So how can he say that it is under-selling? Yes Brian I am happy, I play Halo at Xbconnect every day and couldn't be happier. |
| #18 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 3/11/2003 4:51:36 PM |
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You won't *rehash* because I have provided many facts that dispute your logic for thinking the Xbox is *crappy*. You of course are entitled to your opinion. But that doesn't change the fact that the Xbox is superior. And my truck analogy is the same in this scenario.
I personally think that a Lexus is a car I don't like. I don't care for the design, and I don't care for the whole product line in general. But, that is just my opinion. FACT IS though, it's a top quality car, with a much smaller community than it's rivals. In fact, there probably is not a car that is normally obtainable that could match the quality and loyalty of a Lexus and their owners. But that doesn't make me LIKE the car...no matter how successful it is. I think your silliness is rubbing off on yourself :-) I can think of of MANY more games for the Xbox that are better quality games with better over game play than the PS2. Sony sinks millions and millions of dollars on the PS2 console. They STILL lose money on each console. What's your point? "the hardware isn't being used for anything special (I've seen the equivalent on other consoles " Name one. |
| #19 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/11/2003 8:43:59 PM |
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"He stated that the Xbox is crap yet in technical aspects it is superior to the PS1/2."
As I said (CLEARLY) superior tech specs means nothing if the games don't compare. If the majority of good games are on the INFERIOR platform, who cares? They are still better games. "He is saying that not having the Halo2 for the Holiday seasons spells doom." I never said that, dumbass; you're going to need to learn to read. "By all accounts the Xbox has met all sales projections (I am not sure about Japan)." By all accounts, MS has been admitting that they aren't making expectations. "You won't *rehash* because I have provided many facts that dispute your logic for thinking the Xbox is *crappy*." No, I won't rehash because your "facts" are questionable--or rather irrelevent (for example, "1. PS2 came out before the Xbox by a year, 2. PS1 came out before the Xbox by 4 years?, and 4. PS2 has a huge Japanese market, from where the game originates can be shown to be irrelevent--you're blaming XBox's relatively lackluster success worldwide on the fact that they don't have content that the Japanese like? The PS2 by all reckoning has been selling much better in the last six months leading up to the holidays than the entire first year, etc.) and your freakin analogies suck donkey dick. They are retarded, meaningless, and not analogous. "They STILL lose money on each console." No, they do not. You've got to do some reading, fool. |
| #20 By 37 (66.168.16.248) at 3/11/2003 8:59:56 PM |
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SodaJerk,
Everything you just spewed is incorrect. And yes, PS2 is STILL losing money on the console. They make it up in games however. Do some research. BTW, you have said "Sh!t, fool, crap, dumbass, suck, donkey, dick, retarded, silly, sillyness..etc." Do you have a normal mature vocabulary, or no? |
| #21 By 3339 (64.175.42.120) at 3/11/2003 10:24:31 PM |
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I use lots of MATURE language.
what did I say that was incorrect? that I never said no Halo for Christmas spells doom? please point that out for me. Is it incorrect to say that superior specs aren't important if the games are no good? Sounds like a fair statement to me. What was incorrect? |
| #22 By 7390 (63.211.44.114) at 3/12/2003 8:08:25 AM |
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BTW, you have said "Sh!t, fool, crap, dumbass, suck, donkey, dick, retarded, silly, sillyness..etc." Do you have a normal mature vocabulary, or no?
In general when someone has nothing intelligent to say they resort to this kind of language. And clearly regarding the Xbox Mr. SodaJerk falls into that category. "By all accounts the Xbox has met all sales projections (I am not sure about Japan)." By all accounts, MS has been admitting that they aren't making expectations. Once again another statement from you that is just not true. Everything that I have read points to the fact that the Xbox in on sales target. This post was edited by RedHook on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 at 08:09. |
| #23 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 3/12/2003 1:09:39 PM |
| Generally speaking if someone has a discussion with me all day long and then resorts to saying, "I can't talk to you because of your language--that scary scary word (silly? really, Ooooo) hurts my girlish ears and I can't believe a word of it," at the end of the day, I know they've lost. |
| #24 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 3/13/2003 8:17:35 AM |
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Who ever said they can't talk to you?
You are a SPIN guru I see. Hook said "In general when someone has nothing intelligent to say they resort to this kind of language. And clearly regarding the Xbox Mr. SodaJerk falls into that category." It's so true! |
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