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German city drops Windows for Linux | |
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| Time: 05:38 EST/10:38 GMT | News Source: IDG | Posted By: Bill Roach | ||
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Schwäbisch Hall, a community of 36,000 in southern Germany, plans to build its entire IT infrastructure on the open source Linux operating system, replacing Windows from Microsoft Corp. The local government has decided to deploy Linux software supplied by SuSE Linux AG on servers from IBM Corp. and up to 400 PCs, SuSE Linux said Tuesday in a statement. The government is targeting an initial cost savings of more than €100,000 (US$102,300), according to the statement. | ||
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| #1 By 3465 (149.101.1.116) at 12/18/2002 10:25:03 AM |
| well, at least they can surf the internet. they probably won't get alot of work done. |
| #2 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 12/18/2002 5:34:05 PM |
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I don't see why this article has any importance. As long as the city is doing the right thing, for them then fine. If they want to use Mainframes with 3270 terminals then fine... whatever works.
I'll add to this... Again, I think these articles tend to be driven by Linux Zealots overstating their position. One city out of ten's of thousands is not a mass-migration and isn't going to change the IT landscape. Windows is here, it's here to stay. There are some people that have this false impression that it's dying and Linux is taking over. Linux is still a relatively small niche and serves certain purposes well. If your needs fall within that niche it's a good solution. [i.e. serving up static web content :)] This post was edited by sodablue on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 at 17:56. |
| #3 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 12/18/2002 9:50:05 PM |
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#20 - "That's good to know, but... Many developers opt to do things which limit their target audience to WinTel/IE users only."
Perhaps the developers you work with, but when was the last time you saw an ActiveX app on a page? I think I saw one a couple years ago on MSNBC. Face it, the "target audience" that developers might limit themselves to is 95%+ of the total audience. That's like saying that a book published in English in the United States is flawed because it's in English. Anyway, the point is moot because ASP.NET renders its server-side controls as targeted HTML, which means its actually kinda hard to make a site created in ASP.NET not render correctly... and not just for standard browsers... as parker pointed out, there are also mobile controls which will render an ASP.NET site perfectly on HUNDREDS of PDAs/Cell Phones without you having to know a single thing about those platforms. "MSDE you say is a "real" database where MySQL is not." I doubt he meant it was "real"... MSDE is a development database only that is compatible with SQL Server. Nobody creating any serious application would use MSDE as their final backend. SQL Server is expensive, yes... but if you don't need power, there are plenty of free databases that work MUCH better than MySQL... like Postgres. (sp?) "There have been exploits for MySQL, there have been exploits for SQL Server/MSDE. Wanna count how many there have been for each?" Yes, actually... go ahead. Anyway, the point there is also moot because you would have to be completely idiotic to put a database anywhere but behind a firewall. Period. "Just stop the agenda of making the whole world Microsoft." I don't know about parker, but that's certainly not my agenda. Perhaps if Microsoft paid me, it would be... but until then, I use the technology I think is best. As far as "Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP" being faster than ASP, it completely depends on who writes it, how they write it, what its doing... etc. Nearly every controlled benchmark I've seen places "LAMP" on par with ASP, but not beating it... unless the ASP solution has a SQL Server backend, then it is no contest. But when we get to ASP.NET, the comparisons end. Regardless of speed (which ASP.NET has plenty of... ), development time is drastically cut, upkeep is much easier, and even functionality of the site increases thanks to all the work the server controls do for you. And, again, server controls render properly on down level browsers. It may not look as good (because it can't due to the limitations of the browser in question), but it works just as well as if you coded it manually. This post was edited by RMD on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 at 21:53. |
| #4 By 135 (208.50.206.187) at 12/18/2002 11:21:53 PM |
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I don't know. I guess I keep thinking of the types of web sites we develop, and I don't see PHP offering support for this. Certainly not this LAMP approach with MySQL.
We rely heavily on transactions as our data is important. But we also do cross database transactions using the DTC. Does PHP offer anything similar? We use message queuing technologies like MSMQ or MQSeries to offload processing or communicate between our Windows environment and our Mainframes. Does Linux with PHP support this seamlessly? What about n-tier approach. Can you easily seperate your presentation layer from your application layer using PHP. Can you services this from multiple machines. For instance presentation/web layer being on one side of a firewall with application layer being on another side, along with a central database? Anything approaching the functionality of say Biztalk or webmethods? some sort of application integration/workflow/data transformation tool. This is just a guess, but I suspect the answer is no. If I laid out the architecture for one of our major applications, the Linux/PHP solution wouldn't work. Now you can do this with J2EE, which is the only real competitor right now with .NET. |
| #5 By 20 (24.243.41.64) at 12/19/2002 11:57:59 AM |
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1.) ASP.NET is a server-side technology and does not bind one to an MS browser any more than PHP binds you to Mozilla. You can create IE-specific HTML in PHP just as easily as you can with any other server-side technology. It's a choice the developer makes.
In fact, I would say that it's easier to make cross-browser code in ASP.NET than in PHP. ASP.NET's server controls detect the browser and render specifically for that browser. It supports Netscape 4.x and later, I believe. 2.) Using Linux for dynamic page generation is great for small sites, but it doesn't scale well. You have to throw an army of servers to achieve a fraction of the scalability of a couple IIS boxes. Apache is good, it's Linux that can't handle the I/O. 3.) mySQL is blazing fast for a few users, but also doesn't scale. It craps out after only a few dozen users pounding on it. 4.) PHP is faster than ASP for most purposes. PHP benefits from being maintained. MS has moved on to ASP.NET and to ASP hasn't been optimized. Both ASP and PHP are interpreted meaning they are read in like text and interpreted by the runtime and the script commands are converted to real instructions on the fly. If you have a large file with lots of comments and such, it can actually slow down page processing. Compiled technologies like .NET/ASP.NET and Java benefit from not being interpreted (well, Java's interpreted, but it has a JIT that makes it slightly better). .NET is 100% compiled, so it's faster than Java. -d |
| #6 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 12/19/2002 1:45:13 PM |
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bas - From the first article:
"The reason is that the .NET web scripting language, Active Server Pages (ASP), is tightly bound to the .NET platform. Though it is technically possible to use another scripting language with .NET, developers that choose .NET use ASP because it is so well-supported. " This statement is not just factually incorrect, it's insane. It would be like claiming that airplanes are tightly bound to automobiles because they have wheels. "If you subscribe to the notion that the future of enterprise development is pretty much a choice between .NET and J2EE, then PHP could be the glue -- the front-end language for implementing Web access to the business logic built on .NET or J2EE servers." Why? What value does PHP add? Considering we're not longer talking about ASP here, but ASP.NET... "Suraski thinks that PHP5 will make inroads against its biggest Web scripting competitor, Perl. " Wow... People still use Perl? "Suraski points out that Perl, despite its power and flexibility, was not designed specifically for creating Web applications." Really? What amazing insight! "It's perhaps the ease with which even amateur web aficionados can get up to speed with PHP that has given it an undeserved reputation as a non-professional programming tool." Perhaps it is the lack of professional features that has given it the deserved reputation. This post was edited by sodablue on Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 13:45. |
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