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  Microsoft's two-edged sword of trust
Time: 15:38 EST/20:38 GMT | News Source: ZDNet UK | Posted By: Robert Stein

Remember Palladium? That was Microsoft's summer fun announcement this year--security add-ins for Windows that turn it into a 'trusted system'. In other words, both data and software running on your computer will be able to guarantee that it--and you--are what they claim to be, and deny access to anything that hasn't been approved. Not in itself a bad thing even if Microsoft insist on selling it as some sort of super antivirus package, entirely intended to make the lives of the users better. Predictably, there's been a lot of fuss about Palladium. For some reason, people find the thought of Microsoft setting itself up as the creator and arbiter of trusted systems risible. Perhaps it's the idea of trusting a company that piously intones "we're doing what's right for the users" while religiously making 85 percent profit from those users. And it's true that Palladium could easily be used for very heavy-handed rights management, with the creator of a program or data being able to restrict or destroy your access even after you've bought and registered it. Microsoft says that what people do with it is up to the users and the applications writers and not the company itself--a tad disingenuous, given the company's history of writing most of the important Windows applications.

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#1 By 2960 (156.80.64.132) at 12/3/2002 4:38:49 PM
"For some reason, people find the thought of Microsoft setting itself up as the creator and arbiter of trusted systems risible."

Um, no. Well, maybe for some. I can see their point...

What is risible is being told what you can and cannot do with a computer you paid good money for. NO ONE has the right to tell me or anyone else HOW I use my computer and/or WHAT I use it for. It is none of their damned business.

TL

#2 By 3653 (63.162.177.140) at 12/3/2002 5:10:56 PM
Again, I'm amazed how we are outraged by 85% profit margin on the operating system... yet we buy sugared cereal at 400% markup and a Whopper sandwich at a 300% markup.

Too bad Mr. Kellogg and Mr. BurgerKing aren't billionaires, so people could easily hate them like they do Bill Gates. Oh wait, they ARE billionaires.

Envy is just oh so ugly!

This post was edited by mooresa56 on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 at 17:11.

#3 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 12/3/2002 5:51:37 PM
Interesting how they pick out the one sales figure of the 85% profit margin, while ignoring the sales losses on so many other products. Typical--support your point however you can, even if (and sometimes especially if) it obfuscates the whole story.

#4 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 12/3/2002 6:53:59 PM
JWM, nearly every company has a bread-and-butter product. What do you think the markup is on SUN hardware?

If you were pushing the kind of volume that Microsoft is with its Windows software, you would be pretty dumb if you didn't make 85% profit! It's not like any type of manufacturing, where there are significant material costs per item. With approx. 95% of the desktop computer OS market worldwide, 85% profit on that kind of sales volume on something that is nearly all development and marketing cost and virtually no material cost is not out of line.

#5 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 12/4/2002 1:13:42 AM
haven't we been through this a thousand times? J and TL if you had a clue what Palladium is you'd not make such rediculous comments about it. Read the FAQs and white papers and stop sounding so damn stupid.

#6 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 12/4/2002 4:59:29 AM
J, sry, I'm just a bit annoyed at that many stupid things that are said about Palladium.

For instance, in the article you linked to by Mr. Anderson:
"There is one respect, though, in which you can't turn Fritz off. You can't make him ignore pirated software. Even if he's been informed that the PC is booting in untrusted mode, he still checks that the operating system isn't on the serial number revocation list."

I'd like to know where Mr. Anderson got this information. According to Microsoft, Palladium is absolutely opt-in. According to Microsoft you don't even have to run Palladium enabled Windows on Palladium hardware. If you don't, you don't get the benefits of Palladium, but still, it isn't mandatory. So, perhaps Mr. Anderson is full of it?

"But can't you just turn it off?

Sure - unless your system administrator configures your machine in such a way that TCPA is mandatory, you can always turn it off. You can then run your PC with administrator privileges, and use insecure applications. "

Funny, he seems to know more about Palladium than Microsoft does. Of course TCPA != Palladium, so his FAQ doesn't really even apply. Furthermore, if a company admin opts-in for all the company machines, what's wrong with that? Isn't it the admin's job to make such decisions? The admin decides what happens or doesn't happen on a company machine, that is his job.

"the European smartcard industry looks likely to be hurt, as the functions now provided by their products migrate into the Fritz chips in peoples' laptops, PDAs and third generation mobile phones. In fact, much of the information security industry may be upset if TCPA takes off. Microsoft claims that Palladium will stop spam, viruses and just about every other bad thing in cyberspace - if so, then the antivirus companies, the spammers, the spam-filter vendors, the firewall firms and the intrusion detection folk could all have their lunch stolen. "

Wait a minute? Is he saying that a competing product is bad? If my goal is to stop virii and Palladium let's me do that better than all the anti-virus software in the world, isn't it better for me to use Palladium? New products come and go all the time, should new products be prevented from coming out because they would replace existing products? That is utter foolishness.

#7 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 12/4/2002 5:07:04 AM
J, I think what we need to understand is Mr. Anderson is calling TCPA and Palladium the same thing. They aren't. Further he is speculating (or spreading Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) about Palladium. Where has Microsoft said anything about mobo's and serial numbers bound to Windows product keys or whatever Mr. Anderson was going on about? He is speculating and calling it fact. Since he has no evidence for his opinions, I'd call his FAQ a FUD page.

#8 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 12/4/2002 5:19:47 AM
From http://www.windowatch.com/2002/september/palladium8_8.html :

"Software that is not digitally signed will not run on a TCPA-enabled computer."

Um, this is not true of a Palladium enabled computer. I highly doubt it is true of a TCPA-enabled computer either.

I'm tired of arguing these points. The bottom line is there is a lot of FUD about Palladium. There is a lot of confusion about Palladium, TCPA, DRM, where pattents fit into the mix, etc.

I'm not calling Palladium the best thing on earth. I'm saying that from the few details which Microsoft has released about the current models and designs for Palladium, it looks really good. I think it has the potential to do a lot of good stuff. I think until we see at the very least Beta 1 of whatever OS will have Palladium, it is very premature to say most of the negative thing that have been said about it. Just maybe we'll find out that the Palladium API doesn't let you do half the stuff the FUDders claim it will. Maybe I'll find out I'm wrong and Palladium is will rank with Java as a horrible technology that needs to die. Either way, we need an implementation before we can make anything close to a final decision on the matter (well, i do at least, some like TL and Mr. Anderson, don't seem to need evidence for their views).

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