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Sun Micro Seeks to Force Microsoft to Distribute Software | |
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| Time: 08:52 EST/13:52 GMT | News Source: Bloomberg | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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Microsoft Corp. is battling Sun Microsystems Inc.'s request to regulate its business practices just a month after the world's largest software maker won court approval of its antitrust settlement with the U.S. government. Sun Microsystems wants a judge to order the inclusion of its Java programming language in every copy of Microsoft's Windows XP as a penalty for Microsoft's illegal efforts to discourage Java's adoption by software developers. Putting Java in Windows operating system software would increase competition for programs that power Internet-linked computer networks, Sun says. Legal experts say Sun will have difficulty persuading U.S. District Judge J. Frederick Motz to implement the proposal, which was already rejected by another federal judge in the government's antitrust case. Motz today convenes a three-day hearing in Baltimore to consider evidence supporting Sun's plan. | ||
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| #1 By 6859 (204.71.100.216) at 12/3/2002 8:57:17 AM |
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Waitaminnute... Sun asked that MS be forced to stop spreading a modified and faster JVM, now they whine that Java hasn't been included? Whatever! MS is obeying the restriction.
Sun, you cannot have it both ways. If it's on an XP CD, MS can and will modify it to work better (or properly), if the restriction is "here it is, but you cannot modify it at any time or in any manner," MS will just tell them to jump in a lake. You can't force distribution in that way. That would pre-empt the rights over the property that MS wholy owns. |
| #2 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 12/3/2002 9:14:49 AM |
|
I agree Z00ker.
MS, just make a plug-in that allows Java binaries to run on the .NET Framework. Sun gets Java compatability -- MS doesn't have to deal with the problems of a JVM or licensing issues. Or (my personal favorite), tell Sun to go to "heck" and distribute their own product like they should have done in the first place. How long will it be before this accursed Sun sets? |
| #3 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 12/3/2002 10:26:23 AM |
| It's unlikely this will go anywhere as it was rejected as part of the Remedy already. |
| #4 By 2332 (12.105.69.158) at 12/3/2002 10:44:36 AM |
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I once wrote a cool little instant messaging application called Pogo. As part of the antitrust settlement, which has absolutely nothing to do with me or my software, I want the government to force Microsoft to include Pogo with every copy of Windows XP.
Sound silly? So is Sun's request. |
| #5 By 7390 (63.211.44.114) at 12/3/2002 11:12:07 AM |
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1. Why doesn't Adobe ask for Acrobat reader to be shipped with every Windows copy? 2. Same for AOL 3. Same for Winamp and every other media player 4. Same for RMD and Pogo. "here it is, but you cannot modify it at any time or in any manner" just ship it, bear the distribution cost and shut up. :/ |
| #6 By 931 (67.35.55.249) at 12/3/2002 11:56:12 AM |
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sun: ok you can use java
ms: thanks. ms: oh btw here we tweeked it a little it runs better now..want the updated source? sun: you did what!!! fu ms.. no put it back the way it was. ms: why? it runs faster now and people like it .. makes you look good..wtf? sun: because we said so.. now put it back or stop using it! ms: no, technically it's ours to include.. sun: waaa no it's not you bastard.. bill take it out! ms: fine scott I'll take it out ok.. sun: hahaha see i win. ms: ah we never liked it much anyway.. sun: hey wtf.. now non of our sh*t works for people... ms: yeah well you wanted it this way.. tell you what we'll make it an extra dl for our customers.. sun: but wtf your not supposed to distribute it.. ms: oh stfu sun: waaah wahh people are not using our stuff anymore wtf! it's all your fault bill!! sun: Put it back in! put it back in! ms: Make me! beotch. sun: I'll sue... ms: yeah that worked great for you last time didn't it.. can't we just get along! sun: No! Your dotnet stuff is killing my business! ms: hey listen here big boy.. you started this sheet.. too bad I'm gonna finish it. sun: Mommmy!!! |
| #7 By 7390 (63.211.44.114) at 12/3/2002 12:26:56 PM |
|
"ms: Make me! beotch.
sun: I'll sue... ms: yeah that worked great for you last time didn't it.. can't we just get along! sun: No! Your dotnet stuff is killing my business! ms: hey listen here big boy.. you started this sheet.. too bad I'm gonna finish it. sun: Mommmy!!!" LOL, thanks |
| #8 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 12/3/2002 1:36:41 PM |
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FinancialWiz - "Did you ever think that the reason some Java apps do not run correctly is because web developers write their code to work with the Java plugin modified by MS?"
Did you ever stop to think maybe it's just because it's a really old version? "I think that if MS did not like the way Java was written, then should have just dropped it altogether rather than modifying it, don't you agree? " Microsoft tried to do that. Sun sued them on that too. |
| #9 By 20 (24.243.41.64) at 12/3/2002 3:30:12 PM |
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Just to clarify everything, here's a (hopefully) short history:
- Sun releases Java - Sun signs deal with MS to allow MS to develop JVM on Windows - MS builds a better JVM, but also adds some non-Java stuff - Sun sues MS for breech of contract - Court orders MS to stop producing JVM and allow people to compile Java-compatible code - Court orders MS to only produce critical patches up to 2004 for JVM. - (lots of time passes) - MS decides to stop distributing their JVM now that .NET is out. - Sun sues to force MS to distribute MS' JVM. - Sun then sues to force MS to NOT distribute MS's JVM - Sun sues MS to force MS to distribute Sun's JVM |
| #10 By 1643 (207.46.137.250) at 12/3/2002 5:15:35 PM |
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FinancialWiz,
MS did not make Java incompatible, it merely gave Java developers more tools to write more powerful applications by using the power of the windows API set. Basically extending not "breaking" java standards. So a developer could choose to write in pure java with minimal functionality apps, or more powerful/faster applications to run on his/her environment/customers using java as the language. Again your ABM attitude and Sun's failure to innovate very apparent here. MS embraced and extended java (aka innovated) by allowing developers to do more with less work...which has been MS's strength in developer tools in the past and today. I for one am again appalled of this manipulation and whoring of legal system for competitors to litigate as opposed to innovate in technology as well as other industries. Humor |
| #11 By 20 (24.243.41.64) at 12/3/2002 5:37:45 PM |
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#21, while I agree what MS did was good for technology, it was fairly wrong legally.
Sun wanted a JVM on Windows so it let MS do it, but MS went too far and made an MS-only Java which violated the basic premise of Java. I can understand how Sun would be upset and they had a right to take legal action to protect their I.P. and trademark and preserve the santity of Java. I think the smarter play would've been to work with MS to make their changes more workable and not create an MS Java and a Sun Java, but I've given up all hope for Sun. Anyhow, MS should tell Sun where to go and ditch Java altogether and go pump .NET. |
| #12 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 12/3/2002 9:03:23 PM |
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.NET is one of the greatest things to happen to the tech industry in the last several years. It is a means to move the industry forward on open standards.
Further more...what's the use, your minds won't change. |
| #13 By 1643 (205.240.158.3) at 12/3/2002 9:05:30 PM |
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#22,
OK, daz, I respect your opinion...but, MS didn't "change" JAVA or make a "MS-only" version. They added functionality, not diminished it...and they also didn't force SUN to make any changes on their part. What it gave was choice, not constraints, because anything written in "100% Sun compatible JAVA" it would work just as well in the MSVM and quite a bit faster. But it also allows DEVELOPERS, not MS, make the choice if they wanted to use the extended features (and sun didn't like that there arch-rival innovated beyond them)...and then sun whines and sues. It reminds me of the old "MS Kerberos" debate, where MS added functionality by using an UNDEFINED (a.k.a. Future use) field which was reserved by technical committee who anticipated and designed for this "future use". Great minds know they don't know everything, hence allow things to be changed and modified, and they wanted this. FYI - they stored the SID information the MS uses for security...hence securing networks with added functionality and maintaining 100% compatibility with existing Kerberos (UNIX/LINUX) realms. MS strengths is that can take new or existing technology, make it very easy to use, integrate it with all the other applications on the platform, and sell it to you at the same price you paid for it 10 years ago (inflation adjusted). <sarcasm> You’re right, they are an evil company. What they should do is follow technical committee standards 100% that was written 5 years ago...let's do everything exactly how we did it 5 years ago!!! Go Broncos!!! </sarcasm> (Note- I am a huge Giants fan, New Jersey!!!) humor |
| #14 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 12/4/2002 1:11:30 AM |
| From north Jersey? Most of the southern Jersians go for the Eagles. |
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