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Microsoft changes its tune toward Linux | |
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| Time: 08:48 EST/13:48 GMT | News Source: Seattle Times | Posted By: Byron Hinson | ||
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Microsoft executive Peter Houston wasn't too worried about the reception he'd get at the LinuxWorld conference this week in San Francisco — until he heard about the pie cannon. Let's hurl pies at Microsoft's booth at the show, suggested several people on a Linux Web forum. It was the kind of sentiment shared by many devotees of the freely shared software that has become one of Microsoft's biggest threats and a rallying point for its critics and competitors. | ||
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| #1 By 6859 (204.71.100.215) at 8/12/2002 8:53:43 AM |
| Perhaps MS should bring a water-baloon cannon and shoot the Linux vendors? |
| #2 By 2459 (24.206.97.178) at 8/12/2002 9:32:01 AM |
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Who needs guns when MS is the Borg (according to the Penguinistas).
On second thought, maybe assimilation of everyone in that group isn't such a good idea. :-) Thus, MS innovates again and creates selective assimilation. Those remaining shall be segfaulted. This post was edited by n4cer on Monday, August 12, 2002 at 09:34. |
| #3 By 2332 (12.105.69.158) at 8/12/2002 10:18:34 AM |
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#3 - Funny you bring up the borg. I was just talking with one of my buddies about the various symbolic races in Star Trek, and we came to a very interesting conclusion about the Borg.
Basically, we agreed the Borg are symbolic of religious fanaticism. The Borg are mostly automatons, unable to think for themselves, and devote their lives to making other people just like them. They are ruled by group-think, are unable to question their orders, and are completely convinced their way is the only true path to salvation... er... perfection. They aren't content with a "live and let live" philosophy, and can't stand (or understand) the idea that some people don't want to be like them. Considering Roddenberry was a "devote" atheist (well, "positive" atheist... aka agnostic), this conclusion seems fairly plausible. Sorry for the random tangent... but I thought it might generate some discussion. Here are some quotes to support my conjecture: I condemn false prophets; I condemn the effort to take away the power of rational decision, to drain people of their free will--and a hell of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all. For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain." "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." Note: That first quote is unverified... but the second quote is documented. |
| #4 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/12/2002 10:51:07 AM |
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In other news the Linux zealots are going to march on the San Francisco city hall demanding California buy nothing but Open Source software.
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-949241.html?tag=fd_top I haven't read the full proposed law, but I suspect this will be a big setback when the legislature votes against the bill. This post was edited by sodablue on Monday, August 12, 2002 at 11:00. |
| #5 By 8589 (65.100.123.136) at 8/12/2002 11:07:42 AM |
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That shows how some people deal with problems. They attack with violence. Unless we as human beings can understand the words of Jesus, "He who lives by the sword, will die by the sword." or in this case I would say, he who throws pies, will have pies thrown back at him.
And as for RMD, people that really believe in the teachings of Jesus are not mindless. But people that attack others that believe in Jesus not knowing them personaly, that is mindless, and gutless. Until you know me, and know why I believe in Jesus as I do, then your comments are just a mindless athiest rant. |
| #6 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/12/2002 11:08:56 AM |
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RMD - Going along with that... interesting article:
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD40902 I read this a couple months ago(and it was the basis for a comment I made a few weeks ago comparing Linux zealots to Arabs), but it's a former Libyan PM talking about how Arabs ignore their own flaws instead of speaking about them openly. I'm not sure why they choose to republish this now, but it might have to do with the girls school fire in saudi arabia about a month ago where the religious officials prevented the fire dept from helping. |
| #7 By 9156 (192.55.140.2) at 8/12/2002 11:16:11 AM |
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"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes."
That would mean a perfect human would be one to not make there own decisions. Only an all knowing God could make perfect decisions knowing the outcome of all options. This would leave two options, everyone being all knowing or everyone not making any decisions. I would guess you would opt for your ability to make mistakes...or in other words, have the option to make your own decisions. This brings another object into the picture. As humans we like to take responcibility for the good things and blame bad on someone else. Now, its Gods fault for letting us make bad decisions? I bet if you came up with a million doller idea...it wouldnt be through any help of His, huh? When its bad, its Gods fault for letting it happen. When its Good, we like to take all the credit. Looking at "story logic" the religious view is much more logic then an atheist view. Dating an object to 2.5 million years ago....or 7.9 million years ago has got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. "Due to radioactive decay we can tell this bone is between 6 and 7 million years old. How do they know what radio active levels and how much decay they caused 7 million years ago, let alone 10,000 years ago. Or dating the object by the rock it is in then turning around and dating the rock by the object that’s in it. Darwin himself realized his theories were wrong later in life. Isn’t it odd that we can find a object 7.9 million years old...dinosaurs, sea creatures...yet not a single sign of any form of life more then ape and less then human? There should be millions of year’s worth of bones showing proof. Bummer how no one can find anything to back it up. |
| #8 By 20 (24.243.41.64) at 8/12/2002 11:46:32 AM |
| Penguinistas are a terrorist organization bent on terrorizing corporate America. Ashcroft should spend a little time looking at this organization ot terror and violence! |
| #9 By 20 (24.243.41.64) at 8/12/2002 11:57:28 AM |
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#9: I agree that people like to blame God for everything that's wrong but give him no credit for anything good. "There is rape in this world, so there can't be a God!"
Personally, I'm fairly agnostic. I was raised Christian, but I have strong doubts that I am not currently able to reconcile. I do not definitively think that there is or isn't a God. To me, there is not enough evidence that there isn't, and there isn't enough evidence that there is, so I'm not arrogant enough to argue either way. Religion is faith. You can't explain it, you can't prove it, and you can't quantify it, you must simple believe. Some people would say this is ignorant and hope for the stupid. Perhaps, but perhaps not. There are many scientists who believe that the Big Bang is true but have no actual evidence to support this. There are circumstantial pieces, but then there are just as many, if not more circumstantial pieces of evidence to suggest Creation. It is not clear at all, so saying one way or the other definitively is more ignorant than anything! As far as the story logic and the "Missing Link", abscence of evidence is not evidence of abscence. Just because we haven't found the bones doesn't mean they don't exist. Perhaps we're just looking in the wrong spots. Perhaps ancient psudo-civilizations of semi-Humans lived on costal plains that were flooded with the end of the ice age. There has been some research into this and some evidence has been found that some ancient primitive civilizations were destroyed with the costal flooding. Evolution is not necessarily incorrect, either. It is a theory and it's probably flawed. Newton had some pretty good theories that were taken as strict fact for many years until Einstein came along and smashed part of them. Perhaps in a couple years someone will arise and smash our concept of evolution. Intelligent Design is a reasonable explanation for an evolutionary process in which God was involved. Many parts of the Bible are to be interpreted, not taken literaly, perhaps Genesis is one of these parts. Perhaps the creation story was as simple as God could explain it to people at that time and knew that as we got smarter, we'd figured out what he was talking about. |
| #10 By 2459 (24.206.97.178) at 8/12/2002 1:20:08 PM |
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Austin814 -- The quote RMD gave was from someone who did not believe in God (or, at least, questioned God's existance), so the statement is made with the pretense that there is no God, or perhaps no "all-knowing all-powerful God".
Based on this, the person would not blame God for events in that person's life, be they good or bad. The material dating process (one of them, anyway) is based on half-life. This is a regular occurrance and is constant for the most part. There are also many repetitive processes that occur on Earth, as well as other evidence (chemical, magnetic shifts, organisms, other contextual clues, etc.) that can be used to determine age or other properties of an object. RMD- I've often had the same thoughts regarding the Borg. I also think they're symbolic of the "group-think" phenomenon that often occurs whenever something brings people together. When grouped together, people often lose their individuality. They temporarily (in some cases, permanately) lose their ability to think for themselves and are, instead, driven to always agree with the group, or leader of the group. Religion (Christianity in particular), as well as government/nationality, are good examples of this. Of course, many will disagree with this point of view, and they are fully entitled to do so, but throughout history Religion has been, and continues to be a source of conflict and division, and a catalyst for disagreement, death, and war. Christianity, again, has had a major role in this, as many other cultures were made to give up their beliefs for those of Christianity. While every Christian or member of another religion may not have malicious entent or motives to assimilate others into their belief system, there have been, and remain those that do. History speaks for itself. Also, many deeply religious people/groups often set their religion above others whether ententional or not. It is even often used as a qualifier of one's character, though these two things should remain exclusive in their evaluation. Politicians often use religious affiliation to procure votes, etc. It works, too. Who's gonna run as an atheist and win in America when the majority of the country believes in a God, and uses it as a qualifier of character, integrity, etc.? I would, but that's me. Religious affiliation has nothing to do with being qualified for a position (in general). This post was edited by n4cer on Monday, August 12, 2002 at 13:37. |
| #11 By 2459 (24.206.97.178) at 8/12/2002 1:38:03 PM |
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daz has some good points, and I, too, was raised Christian. But you could say I am often in conflict with religion and science (often leaning towards science because it is provable and consistent). I basically just try to be a good person and let the rest be sorted out in its time. I've often liked Asian religions/philosophies more. Other than wars, etc. The other thing I've always questioned about Christianity is the current interpretations and printings of the Bible, as well as many people's unquestioning belief in the document or their Church (whatever their faith). It wasn't originally English. King James and others translated it with various motives. Some things were probably changed, cut out, or lost/misunderstood in the translations. The Catholic Church has also had disputed interpretations, etc. of the Bible. Whatever else occurred (other people's agendas), there is certainly no guarantee that the translations of the Bible we have today are in any way similar to the original writings (assuming the stories of the original writings are even authentic/nonfictional). Remember, long ago, and in certain cultures today, not that many people were literate. Those in power had first dibs on these types of things.
Longwinded post that few will read completely, so I will end here. Don't take anything I've said too personaly if you feel affected by it. Just words and opinion, but when regarding religion, this often sparks some of the more emotional responses/debates. :-) |
| #12 By 9156 (192.55.140.2) at 8/12/2002 2:26:44 PM |
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#12 There are multiple ways to tell the age of an object, but the patterns that we know of today have only been tracked for a comparatively microscopic time when we try to say something is 7 million years old. Since the earth was so different how could a logical scientist prove that the patterns were the same then but the earth and everything in it was different? We can look at layers of earth and rock...but its still a guess to say whether it takes 1million years to happen or 5million when we have only be tracking it for less then 3000 I would guess.
As far as the truthfulness of the bible, in translation some things are lost, as with all translations. But looking up the roots help to give us a better understanding. Also there has never been a writing with so many copies that are exact. For instance, Socrates writings have 12 "original" copies and we don’t contest they aren’t his true words. In comparison the bible has 100's upon 100's of exact copies in original form and it was a sin punishable by death to copy it incorrectly in its time. Even still with the 100's of exact copies, people contest its true form. I don’t have a problem with just getting along with people that don’t believe the way I do. I myself am a Christian and I don’t think it’s my place to shove my thoughts down anyone’s throat. God gets a person ready, and we are to be ready for when He leads them to us. He gave everyone a choice, it’s not our/my job to take the choice from you, and it’s our job to help support you when you chose to follow Him. I also understand the biggest cause for atheism in the world today is Christians who profess God with there mouth and walk out and deny Him by there lifestyle. Unfortunately those are the "Lukewarm" whom God will spit out. Try not to judge everyone by one person we are not Borg trying to assimilate everyone (so to speak) I don’t judge someone by the last person I met knowing we all are different and everyone is imperfect. It’s not fair to pass judgment on a type of person unless you have met every person of that type. :-) |
| #13 By 2459 (24.206.97.178) at 8/12/2002 3:32:49 PM |
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"It’s not fair to pass judgment on a type of person unless you have met every person of that type. :-) "
I agree. I wasn't attempting to pass judgement. I mentioned that I didn't think all members of a religion had the ententions mentioned above. I did kind of gloss over that part though (should have made it more pronounced). I try not to make sweeping generalizations about every member of a group because the generalization almost never holds for all members. "I don’t have a problem with just getting along with people that don’t believe the way I do." Ditto. If only everyone thought this way. Realist -- I'm interested -- how does this thread prove we are zealots like the Slashdot crowd? |
| #14 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/12/2002 3:48:04 PM |
| Realist - So do you agree that commercial software should be outlawed so that Open Source can prevail? |
| #15 By 3653 (65.190.70.73) at 8/12/2002 3:52:29 PM |
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yawn!
Back on the topic of lice, errr linux... I love this last paragraph of the "IBM will beat Sun with Linux" story today: "And Linux' popularity is only beginning to boom, according to an IDC report released last month. The research firm predicted that spending on Linux will increase to $200 million by 2006, up from $80 million in 2001." Is this a joke? A whole $200M by 2006. LOL. ps... come to think of it, lice is a lot like linux. both are free initially, but cost money later. both are unwanted... entering our lives by contact with that special species of smelly unwashed programmer. |
| #16 By 61 (65.32.170.1) at 8/12/2002 10:09:06 PM |
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n4cer:
Indeed, different denominations seem to think that King James is somehow the holy version of the bible, when in fact, King James had the Bible translated into Elizbethan English so the masses could read it, as it was previously in Latin, which was a translation of the Greek, because when it was translated, most people spoke/read Latin. Most even believe that the virgin Mary was Catholic, of course, there was no such thing as Catholicism back then, and in fact, she was a good little Jewish mamma. Other denominations seem to think that hymns are the only holy music, but what they fail to realize is that hymns are mostly old drinking songs with the words changed, which was done so people would recognize the tune, and bring people in, because it was the music of the times. These same people call Rock 'n' Roll unholy, or of the devil, yet, it's merely the music of the times. These people try and say that if you smoke, you can't get into Heaven, or women aren't aloud to where pants, or preachers' wives aren't aloud to have a job, and basically try to condemn you in anyway they can, and it's just outright wrong.... this isn't Christianity. These people seem to forget that what they are supposed to be preaching is GOOD news, not rules and regulations (which aren't of God). -------------------------- Sorry if I've offended anyone, I guess you're just going to have to get over it. This post was edited by CPUGuy on Monday, August 12, 2002 at 22:09. |
| #17 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 8/12/2002 10:10:04 PM |
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tzarchasm - Good points! I agree that nothing is better than anything else in general. One has to place the comparison within the given context of needs/wants/desires. A Ford Ranger is not a better car than a Honda Accord, but it is a better truck. :-)
RANT - I never said that in this thread. Although I may have said that in another thread, but I don't think so because I don't agree with that statement. I am a large proponent of it being better to have a handful of nickels than a few quarters. In fact you can fit more wealth in the form of dimes in the same jar than any other US coin so maybe the key is splitting the difference. That being said, I think it's crucial for Microsoft to win over the hearts and pocketbooks of the home and small business owners. Which may explain why they recently dropped the price of Small Business server(through rebates), which makes your point about Linux being cheaper all the more silly. :-) This is especially silly when you try to compare TCO. Now this may not be true for the small business which is tech related, but then that goes back to the point that tzarchasm alluded to. You need to place your opinions into the right context. |
| #18 By 2459 (24.206.97.178) at 8/12/2002 10:30:26 PM |
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RANT -- Actually, it was the GPL MS had a problem with.
CPUGuy -- Thanks for your comments. Those are some of the things I was trying to get at. For now, however, I'll leave the religious discussions for another time, except for dicussions about the Linux religion. :-) |
| #19 By 7797 (63.76.44.252) at 8/13/2002 7:31:05 AM |
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Realist, well said.. and sodablue .. lol .. just because Realist says the responses of the people in this thread are laughable, doesn't mean he agrees proprietrary software should be outlawed.
Can anyone say "Sheep"? |
| #20 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/13/2002 11:15:08 AM |
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RANT - "They can drop it all they want...Linux is still cheaper for small business' if all they want out of their servers is file/print sharing and email. And the TCO is lower for these companies. "
Well that's certainly not true. "What context are you basing your comments on?" Yours, where you make this implicit assumption that small businesses have technical people already on staff. Most businesses I have worked with do not, they just want a turnkey solution that is easy to maintain mostly by themselves without having to hire additional staff. Oh and repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true, you might try to understand other peoples issues instead of ramming your solution down their throats. |
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