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Busting the FUD about Vista’s DRM | |
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| Time: 10:34 EST/15:34 GMT | News Source: ZDNet | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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Is it bad reporting, bad research, or something worse? That’s the question I asked myself when I read this NetworkWorld account of Peter Gutmann’s presentation at the Usenix Security Symposium last week. Gutmann is a researcher in the Department of Computer Science at the University of Auckland in New Zealand who specializes in encryption (on his home page, he describes himself as a Professional Paranoid). Gutmann generated a lot of heat last December with the publication of a paper that called Windows Vista’s Content Protection scheme “the longest suicide note in history.” He updated it in April, mostly to call his critics names, and he updated it yet again yesterday with a top-of-the-page slam at my ZDNet colleague George Ou, who took exception with some of Gutmann’s claims yesterday (see Claim that Vista DRM causes full CPU load and global warming debunked!). | ||
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| #26 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 8/15/2007 10:21:21 AM |
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Uhh... the US postal system is a privatized organization and subject to intense competition... stamps, or "Franking" increase in price all the time. The government's role is to "protect" the passage of mails and control "Franking Privileges" only - ya'll recall when many of our congress people and senators abused that and traded stamps for cash - Sen. John Glenn was given a pass... [Dem Ohio], and in the US we for certain have public healthcare - medicare and medicaid which provide access to our private healthcare system - paid by taxes and outrageous premiums, which go up each and every year. reform is needed but that reform has to include some serious butt kicking - to get all able bodied people off their backsides and into some kind of work. We're all waayyy off topic here - which is what makes Awin so great - we do that all the time. Chris K and I are never going to agree on these issues - no more than our host nations have in the past. There are some telling points about that subject and his story is a compelling one - which by the way, I still owe him an apology - "I am most sincerely sorry to have offended you, Chirs - you were way too young to have done much about what went down in your home country and I did not know that part." Just know that a lot of us tried real hard to help - and many gave all in order to do it.
Any case, I can tell ya'll this much and this much only - socialism does not work, because humans are involved and it ends up hurting a lot of poeople. Capitalism is far from perfect, but it does hold out that individuals and their right to own and dispose of property is central to being free. Respecting that right is what is at the center of this debate - and one's right to protect that property. Recorded media was perhaps the first form of widely distributed "Software" and now, with the technological means to allow any of us to distribute it, the protections have evolved and that treads on fair use in a lot of cases - it's imperfect, but it is where we are. There is little doubt about what would happen without DRM - about every kid with an MP3 player and a computer would steal, AGAIN. That is how we ended up in this mess - the same way it went when we had to add locks to our doors and began locking our cars. I recall a time when we did not do that at all. Without DRM and the means to manage fair use, what is the solution? No DRM = no incentive and I have seen that, too - people without any will, or incentive. It results in mass poverty, war and the terrible conditions that caused people like Chris to have to move elsewhere - and the same was true of our ancenstors. So we have what we built here - an imperfect place that appears wild and unforgiving to many. I see it as a place that improves all the time and still provides the best chance for all to find happiness and prosperity - as individuals held together by a very few shared ideals that are worth protecting. |
| #27 By 13030 (198.22.121.110) at 8/15/2007 11:12:47 AM |
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The fundamental difference between people like lketchum (and including myself) versus the socialism advocates here is the concept of being able to choose one's own destiny without the government moderating and commoditizing all services. Redistribution of wealth only encourages mediocrity. The greater the scope that the wealth is redistributed, the less the impact is seen by any one individual on a daily basis. Interestingly, these are the very issues that the Constitutional Convention dealt with over 200 years ago. What resulted from that very enlightened group of men was a system that has endured--a balance between personal liberties, the rights of states, and the responsibilities of the national government.
I have a feeling (could be wrong, but I doubt it) that lketchum and I share a common background--we started with nothing, but we worked hard, with dedication and pride, to earn everything we have. We are generous to those that are also willing to work hard. Interestingly, my younger brothers, who do not share my same work ethic and reputation, are socialists (seriously). Coincidence? I think not. I have found many times over that many people are drawn to socialism because it advocates the easy path and caters to their sense of "talking a lot" but not really having to "build" anything by oneself--in other words it makes them feeling good about their social responsibility. The Hollywood culture has more than its fair share of these "big talkers". Back to the DRM topic. DRM is a protectionist mechanism. It's purpose is to protect a corporate revenue stream, not to protect an artist's creation. (Actually, if you really think about "art" and what it means to a culture, DRM seems to be the antithesis.) |
| #28 By 37 (76.210.78.134) at 8/15/2007 11:33:11 AM |
| I am confident that not every artist feels that way (I know Jon Bon Jovi is one off the top of my head). Secondly, why not just put all music up on the internet, free to download, and be on a donation,honor based system? |
| #29 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 8/15/2007 12:01:17 PM |
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#27 You are exactly correct. We each sign the front sides of checks and are happy to do it - I bet you focus on the people and the mission first, too! I also bet you get "hit" often, as in many times a day, by people wanting things from you - that have either made terrible decisions, or simply want an easy way out of a mess they have created.
Also, extremely well said about our founders and their wisdom - thanks for posting that! |
| #30 By 32132 (142.32.208.232) at 8/15/2007 12:16:52 PM |
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#25 "Any DRM scheme will always be cracked."
And currency can be counterfeited. And locks can be picked. So? |
| #31 By 32810 (74.118.96.115) at 8/15/2007 1:35:11 PM |
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I think people have become very untrustworthy of corporations in light of things we've seen in the past i.e. Sony rootkit. It's human nature to speculate and err on the side of caution. I read through the post a few months ago, then saw a reply by Microsoft, on to the podcasts by Leo and company. There is some truth and some spin on both sides.
We just witnessed another example of DRM failing the consumer with Google's purchased videos--self destruct. Once a media company decides it's no longer financially viable, then say goodbye to your DRM-protected purchase. I don't believe that DRM is protecting the artists. In fact studies commissioned by the industry itself show that the majority of 'mp3 downloaders' are in fact the consumer base. In addition there are artists posting websites outright opposing the use of DRM. We've all read the stories of the artists who sell millions of products, then end up broke because the own the record company so much money. The ones that do make it out on top eventually form their own, independent, labels. Links: CRIA's Own Study Counters P2P Claims http://michaelgeist.ca/component/option,com_content/task,view/id,1168/Itemid,85/nsub,/ Effect of File Sharing (PDF) http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/FileSharing_March2004.pdf Canadian Music Creators Coallition http://www.musiccreators.ca/wp/ This post was edited by midfingr on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 at 13:36. |
| #32 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/15/2007 2:23:31 PM |
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Many here are confused. The reasonable attacks on DRM are not saying all music should be free. It may suit your argument to create such a strawman, but it's irresponsible and moronic in the long run.
They are saying, that if I pay for a song... i ought to be able to listen to it. If your little music company goes under and shuts down it's DRM server, i'm screwed. If my device dies, that your song was linked to, I'm screwed. This is why DivX died, and it's a very reasonable concern. Consumers don't want that. They want something that's easy to use, and doesn't get in their ways. Nobody is denying that artists shouldn't have a right to make money. As I said, the simple fact of the matter is... I don't have to buy your shit. I don't care how much money you think you ought to make, if I don't want to give you my money you don't get it. Apple has done a reasonable job with iTunes to make the DRM fairly transparent, and unintrusive. Others have not and then complain endlessly when people don't use their stuff. The complaints mostly center around how corporations are working to try to force consumers to pay for stuff, even though the consumer has no interest or want for it. I'm not talking about pirates. I'm talking about reasonable people such as myself, who have no interest in buying music online. (Or video... or whatever.) |
| #33 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/15/2007 2:26:50 PM |
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#27 - I have a feeling (could be wrong, but I doubt it) that lketchum and I share a common background--we started with nothing, but we worked hard, with dedication and pride, to earn everything we have. We are generous to those that are also willing to work hard. Interestingly, my younger brothers, who do not share my same work ethic and reputation, are socialists (seriously).
Something I've learned over the years... The definition of socialist used by many appears to refer to consumers demanding substance for their dollar. That's not being a socialist. It's being a capitalist. What you are is a statist, demanding Government control of markets, to prevent consumers from demanding what they want. |
| #34 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 8/15/2007 3:26:31 PM |
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#33, What?!? Huh?!? and Nah!
"concentration of economic controls and planning in the hands of a highly centralized government." That is what a statist asserts - hardly what we're saying. Those most vigorously opposed to statism [historically] are economic liberals - whom have forgotten that central to that economic ideology is logic based upon "Private property and individual contracts forming the basis of the liberal theory of economics." - adding that under such systems, self-interest alone was enough to secure people and property - which was largely true until about 1966. After that neosocialists hit the streets instead of the books. If you're trying to draw a line between laws passed to recognize digital property as property and the protection thereof and statism, there just isn't one... digital property is real - as real as any property one may own, sell, rent or otherwise dispose of. While I may be assuming for him, CH and I both assert that liberals cannot have it both ways - you cannot have controls where and to the degree that many appear to want them and one cannot have complete anarchy, either - hence his reference to the balance our founders so wisely sought. What we are seeing is "Sefl-Interest" out of control and that is the problem - people want what they have not earned [yet] in so many cases. 20 years olds want to be elevated to where mom and dad are - and right damned now and it "ain't fair" etc... Rather than seeing independence, self-reliance and individual achievement as being WORTH the hard tough years it takes to make it on your own, they want to stay where it is fat, safe and cushed up, or they're willing to live so far below what their potential could provide for - so long as the Internet and MP3's are free - or at least easily stolen. Of course there are great young folks, too, but they are really hard to spot these days. |
| #35 By 13030 (198.22.121.110) at 8/15/2007 4:26:51 PM |
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#33, What you are is a statist, demanding Government control of markets, to prevent consumers from demanding what they want.
This may very well be the first time in my life that someone has referred to me as a "statist". To the contrary, I've always advocated less government involvement and fewer laws and regulations. The definition of socialist used by many appears to refer to consumers demanding substance for their dollar. That would be the "Millionaire Next Door", not a socialist. Consumers can demand all they want and I think that is just one of the many reasons that the United States is the greatest nation in human history. #34, ...digital property is real - as real as any property one may own, sell, rent or otherwise dispose of. True in spirit, but legislatures, courts, and the patent office are all still struggling with this. To be clear, I believe in the protection of one's property and the right to create and distribute as desired. However, I oppose DRM because it places more controls on legitimate use than it prevents unauthorized use. I believe in living my life in such a way that no one could ever say that I was a crook, thief, cheater, adulterer, and so forth. I want to be the best example for my kids possible. I hope that others would too, but, obviously, they don't because we seem to need things like DRM. I find it interesting and troubling that so many young people (and I'm not that old) find nothing wrong with pirating music, videos, and software off the web. |
| #36 By 13030 (198.22.121.110) at 8/15/2007 4:39:16 PM |
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#34, While I may be assuming for him, CH and I both assert that liberals cannot have it both ways...
Assuming for me, but still right on. I'm reading a biography about Ben Franklin and another one about LBJ, so this stuff about rights and liberals is bouncing around in my head. |
| #37 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 8/15/2007 6:29:29 PM |
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#35, Your thoughts are right on with how properly upset truly free thinking people are.
For example, I hate DRM - well and truly and I go on about how big of a pain in the backside it is at every opportunity - but I add to those complaints why it is there - for the same reasons we had to add locks to our homes, cars and lockers - speaking of which, when I first went to school, no one had a locker - they were not needed and get this, boys carried guns to school each and evey day! We hunted to school and on our way home, too - one had to! To eat! No one was every shot and no one ever dared "Brandish" a weapon in any way and no one was afraid, either. You are right to hold the position that you do - that DRM is just awful, but what brought DRM on is much worse and globally, it is just primitive. I mean, in many place in central asia there have never been any protections of any kind and stealing recorded content on albums and tape and then CDROM is/was a business - for decades. Truly, I ache for that time when five year olds walked miles to school and there were no locks at all. People didn't steal and they didn't hate one another and when a fellow was sick you cared for him and later he cared for you. It all changed when people started looking to the Govt. for solutions - it was never enough and they all wanted more, more more. Everyone wanted a free ride. I have watched it three times now in my lifetime and only the first group walked up the the aid window demanding to be allowed to pay any aid back and some of us never took any in the first place. We hunted, fished, grew and canned food and we fought and fought some more. If no one stole we'd need no DRM and if no one stole we'd need no locks. I cussed like a dog the day we added them to our first home - I remember that day and I was mad beyond words. |
| #38 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/16/2007 8:40:38 AM |
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#5 - This may very well be the first time in my life that someone has referred to me as a "statist". To the contrary, I've always advocated less government involvement and fewer laws and regulations.
Isn't a government mandate requiring all televisions and displays to be DRM enabled the very definition of a statist? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_flag |
| #39 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/16/2007 8:51:31 AM |
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#37 - You are right to hold the position that you do - that DRM is just awful, but what brought DRM on is much worse and globally, it is just primitive.
The inability for companies to adapt to a changing marketplace? Ever noticed how Sony started going downhill in terms of creating electronics equipment when they bought Columbia? Now all of their hardware is all about protecting the Columbia jewels. Today there's no way Sony would ever introduce a Walkman, or a CD player, or even Beta video. The pencil pushers would tell the engineers "No way! We can't control it! It'll be mass confusion!" Convergence killed the marketplace of ideas. |
| #40 By 13030 (198.22.121.110) at 8/16/2007 9:23:35 AM |
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soda, earlier in this thread I thought you got the wrong post number, but now I realize you have me confused with someone else. I have always been against DRM. In general, I find corporate-driven government mandates disguised as consumer protections to be reprehensible.
lketchum, I find myself to be nostalgic too. The long days of childhood wanderlust seem to be drifting away. I agree that our schools have seen radical changes--I didn't have a locker until 9th grade, my junior high and high school campuses were completely open, there was no security or cops at school, and zero-tolerance did not exist. DRM is just another (lame) control that has been instituted due to our culture's inability to exercise proper judgment and respect for one another. |
| #41 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/16/2007 10:03:26 AM |
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#40 - I have always been against DRM. In general, I find corporate-driven government mandates disguised as consumer protections to be reprehensible.
Ah ha! Welcome to the club. Now get down off the ledge, and stop calling consumers opposed to ridiculous controls commies. The long days of childhood wanderlust seem to be drifting away. Yeah, mommy is no longer feeding you. Time to realize the world is a harsh mistress and always has been. The world you dream of never existed. DRM is just another (lame) control that has been instituted due to our culture's inability to exercise proper judgment and respect for one another. More like another tool imposed to squeeze that last 5% of profit out of the consumer. Seriously, you guys need to get out more. I come back to AW after a couple of years, and the place has been overrun by diaper wearing cowards. Was it always like this? Was I as bad as you guys. I'm wondering... maybe. God, that makes me sad. |
| #42 By 32132 (142.32.208.232) at 8/16/2007 2:05:07 PM |
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"the place has been overrun by diaper wearing cowards."
Latch, sodablue has hacked your webcam ... FYI. |
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