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Microsoft Continues to Expand Interoperability Options for Office Customers | |
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| Time: 10:38 EST/15:38 GMT | News Source: Press Release | Posted By: Michael Dragone | ||
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As part of its continued commitment to deliver interoperability by design, Microsoft Corp. today announced a new collaborative effort with the Beihang University (Beijing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics) and others to create an open source translator project between China’s Unified Office Format (UOF) and the Ecma Open XML File Formats. In addition, the company announced the beta release of translation tools for Windows® XP, and the 2003 and 2007 versions of Microsoft® Office Excel® and Microsoft Office PowerPoint® as part of the Open XML Translator project launched in July 2006. | ||
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| #26 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/23/2007 11:34:56 AM |
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#23, It shouldn't. However, some good natured ribbing, and "slagging" has to be accepted, and encouraged. Of course we are partisan - we make choices and in most of our cases, our livelihood depends, at least in part, upon them.
You should try Office 2007 on Vista - O2K7 is all about exposing the 97% of features many users don't make regular use of - and with that increased exposure, via the O2K7 Ribbon interface, people create better and richer documents. I ran an experiment last night, in preparation for a class I am teaching on personal productivity and collaboration on Vista and O2K7 - we offer these for customers and guests and simply share what we do. Any case, the experiment was pretty simple - identical laptops, one with Windows Vista Ultimate and Office 2007. The other build was Ubuntu Linux 7.04 and OpenOffice. The experiment centered on creating identical documents - one business letter with images and one presentation slide with simple text and graphics. Before the experiment was run, each step, on both platforms was scripted, practiced and burned into memory. I could perform identical tasks without using notes for either platform. The reactions were the interesting part - the experience with Vista and Office 2007 was great - easy, fast and highly visual. The experience with Ubuntu and OpenOffice was like a trip backward in time - while possible to create simpler documents, it wasn't intuitive, much less fun, or at all visual. The final part of the experiment was to save in compatible formats and then exchange and open on one platform, that which was created on another. Vista/O2K7 opened the OpenOffice document, converted it and it was as intended. OpenOffice had trouble with the document saved in Office 97-2003 format and some editing was necessary. The most telling remark heard was, "That Ubu, thing or whatever it is, is slow as **ite" I think the customer meant OpenOffice was slow. At the end, one question was asked, "Which would you rather use and which do you want your employees using to create documents that represent your company? The reply was, "I don't know what the hell that <the Ubuntu build> thing is, but I'm telling you right now, I can't use it - I can't do that in Word now, but I bet I could do it in the new one." <Vista and Office 2007> Like Geeks, users "can" do similar things using OSS - they just don't want to. Geeks could do all the things in Linux that they used to have to do on older Microsoft servers and clients and users could continuously serve as their own support teams - but again, they just don't want to. The same energy is being expended, but in new and different ways and producing more sophisticated software and hardware on one hand [devs and engineers] and richer and more effective documents on the other [the user side]. This post was edited by lketchum on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 at 11:42. |
| #27 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/23/2007 12:16:30 PM |
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#26: I suspect that your class would have still had a problem with Ubuntu even if it ran circles around Vista, and that's the fact that they've heard of Windows and not Ubuntu Linux and nobody they know runs Linux. Granted, OpenOffice is not anywhere near as polished as Office (See? See?? You can actually publicly criticize something you support without bursting into flames!)
The document shifting was not a fair comparison. If MS would publish the full & complete spec for their Office formats, it would be a different ballgame. But I will agree that it is much easier to implement an open standard than reverse-engineer a black box. It's definitely a plus for MS as proprietary file formats help with lock-in, but it's not so nice for users. |
| #28 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 5/23/2007 12:27:29 PM |
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#26: To be fair, if you were giving the same demo to a bunch of users who used Linux for years, and were used to OpenOffice and how it worked, you'd likely get a similar reaction to the Microsoft Office ribbon bar and other UI goodies that would confuse the crap out of non-Windows users. That was a blatent apples and oranges comparison if I've heard one.
Yes, OpenOffice still has work to do, but given how much less time it has been around than Word, I think it is pretty nice, and it does all the things I generally do with a word processor in my home environment, and even in my work environment, even though I use Word 2003 in my work environment. I did my own experiment, taking a large selection of Word, and Excel documents, of various complexities, created with several versions of Word and Excel (2000 and 2003 mainly), and loaded them into OpenOffice, and they all looked the same to me. On the other hand, take a native Word 2007 file (saved in docx format), and see if Word 2003 or 2000 can open it. I know OpenOffice can't, but what about older Office versions? Is this another example of vendor lock-in to fight against open standards? That is the appearance of it, given the timing of the new format just as there is a lot of noise being generated about more open formats. Hmmmm. Sounds mighty suspicious, if you ask me. |
| #29 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/23/2007 12:32:21 PM |
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#27, Then you can admit that Ubuntu has some ways to go before it catches up to Windows 98, er... I mean, Windows Vista.
Ubuntu, I use Windows Vista; I worked with Windows Vista; Windows Vista is a friend of mine. Ubuntu, you're no Windows Vista. Ref: Sen. Bentsen to then Vice President Quayle, during their 1988 vice-presidential debate. Bentsen: Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy; I knew Jack Kennedy; Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy. |
| #30 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/23/2007 12:42:11 PM |
| #29: Yes, Ubuntu does have a ways to go in some aspects that are within its control and some not, before it becomes a serious desktop contender for the masses, but how much of a ways depends on the user. My mother-in-law reads email and plays poker online. That's it. She'd do nicely with Ubuntu. Now, are you able to say that Vista needs some work as well? Or will I get your usual silence, or (even worse) crowing about how Vista has changed your life and everyone on Earth for the better, how Vista saved a burning busload of nuns, how Vista will one day cure cancer etc etc etc? |
| #31 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/23/2007 12:51:35 PM |
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#28, To be fairest, if I were giving a class to a group of Linux users the following would be also be true:
1) I wouldn't get a word in edge wise 2) They'd spend more time arguing about which distro I "should" be running 3) When they weren't arguing about the distro, they'd be arguing about which text editor I should use along with which package manager I was using - as the die hards walked out because I had started X-Services to begin with and hadn't stayed true to the CLI essence of the OS. 4) Finding enough Linux users to fill a class would have cost me more in air-fare than my company earned in the last 28 quarters. 5) By the time we got anything done, Microsoft would have released Vienna and Office 2009 and the entire class would have been as dated. Open Standards ass. The day that 99%+ of my customers use UOF, or any open format, then I'll call it a "standard" - from where I sit, "open" works like this - man, that x,y,z stuff in, a,b, or c proprietary software looks great and works even better. Let's mimic it and then create our own standard, which we'll call "open" and then demand that Microsoft, Apple, and all other commercial houses adopt it in the name of "standards." or we'll sue, or fine them, or call them bad names. Man, we'd didn't get here overnight - Microsoft's formats and products were never the "standard" - they became the defacto standard because people used them with greater frequency than they did others. |
| #32 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/23/2007 12:57:23 PM |
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#31: Now, are you able to say that Vista needs some work as well? Or will I get your usual silence, or (even worse) crowing about how Vista has changed your life and everyone on Earth for the better, how Vista saved a burning busload of nuns, how Vista will one day cure cancer etc etc etc?
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| #33 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/23/2007 12:59:37 PM |
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#30, You're dang right Vista needs work - tons of it and right now, hundreds of thousands of people are working on and around it and at a pace that has never been seen before.
The instrumentation and reporting within Vista assures that where it fails, or where third party devices and software need work, they are receiving it - the dang OS comes back to the user and says, "Here are the issues you've had and here are the links and steps to take to fix them!" It's amazingly effective. and that is my point [nearly always] - that the ecosystem around Microsoft software, Windows Vista and throughout the platform, are best suited to quickly respond to the needs of the largest number of people - including casual users like one's Mum, and power users like many of the people who come here. My fair question as I assess it remains, "which platfrom is most likely to reach its goals - ever?" Windows? or the Lincues? Which is most likley to serve the interests of my customers? - only they can tell me and they do. That is my point, Latch - always has been and always will be. |
| #34 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 5/23/2007 1:14:30 PM |
| My apologies Sentinel... |
| #35 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 5/23/2007 1:26:02 PM |
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#34: You are forgiven. :-)
#31: lketchum, your ethno-centric prejudices are showing again. If it ain't good for the good ol' USA, it's useless crap. I bet the millions and billions who watch television via a PAL, SECAM, or other non-North American standard are suffering for not using a standard that you use in the USA. It is amazing the rest of us manage to buy gas for our cars, and milk for our kids, since we don't use the Imperial units used in the USA. Since the majority of your users likely don't use the Metric System, I guess that is not a standard either. You Americans make me laugh when you get all bent out of shape because someone may want to use a standard that you personally don't use. Go back to sleep. We'll wake you up when nap time is over, and the adults are finished talking. This post was edited by MysticSentinel on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 at 13:39. |
| #36 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/23/2007 1:30:49 PM |
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#33: Finally, I think we've made a breakthrough...
I'll admit that I don't really care which platform is most likely to reach its goals, so long as they do what I want them to do. I care a lot more about the behaviour of a company than its goals. Goals are lofty, pie in the sky type things. Actions speak MUCH louder. |
| #37 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/23/2007 1:42:27 PM |
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#35, Actually SECAM is used by more people around the world than PAL is - but they are all watching an awful lot of programming and movies that originated in America, strangely.
We Americans? Alone? Adults? The country, or people have nothing to do with it. The defacto standard is borderless and available in more languages than any other platform. Beyond that, leaders lead - and when they don't peolpe complain. What an insulting comment. |
| #38 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 5/23/2007 1:56:01 PM |
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#37: You stated: 'The day that 99%+ of my customers use UOF, or any open format, then I'll call it a "standard"'
By your own words, it isn't a standard unless your customers use it, or you decide it is. Since I feel it is safe to presume that a large percentage of your customers are American, likely in the southern part of the US, then by extension, you are stating that it isn't a standard unless Americans are using it. That attitude is far more insulting to a far larger percentage of the global community than anything I said. |
| #39 By 32132 (142.32.208.234) at 5/23/2007 1:56:01 PM |
| Why not mandate the use of Esperanto as a "Universal Open Language" and make use of English illegal because it wasn't approved by the right international standards body chaired by Khaddafi and Castro? |
| #40 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 5/23/2007 2:00:30 PM |
| #39: So you feel that English should be the only standard, because that is the language you speak, and everyone else in the world should only speak in English? Chinese should be outlawed, even though more people speak Chinese dialects around the world than English, just because that is not a "standard" you like to use? |
| #41 By 37 (76.210.78.134) at 5/23/2007 2:16:47 PM |
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For those that don't have Office 2007 with PDF addin, I made a screenshot:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/thehedon/pdf.gif This post was edited by AWBrian on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 at 14:17. |
| #42 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/23/2007 2:22:16 PM |
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#38, Actually, the majority of our customers are in Canda. Most of them grew weary of many things and they sought solid answers and someone that would answer the phone. If there are dev communities that I'd say we are closest to, it would be those in Vancouver and then Tornoto - we support them most directly and last I checked, many a Canadian gas station, still vended fuel in Royal Gallons - slightly larger in volume than our own. My position is much more pragmatic and I think that was clear - standards are based upon what are used, which is largely dependent upon where one is. So in Germany I speak not only the national language, but the local, "umgang sprache" - the same as when one is in any other country.
Reducing the debate to when and where the metric system is used does not change the fact that MS Office and its formats are very dominant globally. You must be aware that our armed forces have used the metric system as a standard for decades, right? We have a way of using what works and makes sense and right now, MS Office makes sense. And English is the language of commerce, business, aviation and medicine - and many other concerns - at one time, French was the language of diplomacy, that has faded and English has become more widely used. You are asking the world to adopt what many more practical people regard as an "arbitrary" standard - you can hide behind globalization all you want, but it won't work to better a thing, or reduce America's influence. What the heck will you do when we we mine H3 [Tritium] from our moon and the energy from it becomes the "standard?" I doubt you'll be lighting a candle. |
| #43 By 1401 (69.27.196.98) at 5/23/2007 2:25:24 PM |
| KETCHUM - put down the glass of Kool-Aid and step away from the table... |
| #44 By 32132 (142.32.208.234) at 5/23/2007 2:45:16 PM |
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#40 See, thats the trouble with fanatics.
They assume that the choices are between banning one language or the other, when in fact I am noting that English has become a "standard" without anyone mandating it as such or banning its competitors. Open source fanatics want government to ban Microsoft Office because it isn't approved by Castro or Red China or Richard Stallman (they all think alike). I, on the other hand, don't suggest banning anything ... unless it is the banning of banning. I detest you fanatics who want to force people to choose X, Y or Z based on your own stupidity and prejudices. But then again, you are Canadian ... the country that has a rule that all Prime Ministers must speak french even if 59% of the population don't speak french. |
| #45 By 37047 (74.101.157.125) at 5/23/2007 9:13:28 PM |
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#42: "last I checked, many a Canadian gas station, still vended fuel in Royal Gallons"
Show me one. Every gas station, and every other form of liquid measure in Canada, is in liters. If you have seen a Canadian gas station pumping fuel in gallons, then you haven't been here for quite a while. There could be a few pumps that show the volume in both, for the less educated Americans who sometimes come to visit, who have never heard of a liter. The only point I have been arguing is the one you made that nothing is a standard unless YOUR customers are ALL using it. Said as though no one else matters. Personally, I want to save my documents in a format that is vendor neutral, so that I can still access them no matter what happens in a court of law (patent violations, for example), or what application I may be using at any point in time. I don't want to have to worry that Word 2026 might decide that they no longer support the opening of files older than, say, Word 2007. Not everyone trusts Microsoft to never make that business decision, and if they did, there wouldn't be much you'd be able to do about it. |
| #46 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/24/2007 12:25:02 AM |
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#45, Right.... actually, the Govts. move to SI metrification won't be in full effect until 2009 - and even then and even in the EU, "imperial" measurments will be sustained - in Canada, in fact, it is customary for people to refer to their own height and weight using imerpial units.
Dual markings are so pervasive that the last word was that they would, "continue indefinately" - which is true in the U.S. and for the same reason - being that both nations have such strong historical ties to the U.K. - which also has no plans to move to SI units over dual marking. So we dumb Americans have plenty of company - or... it could be that base 12 systems don't trip us up any more than base 10 systems do... I recall the legislation in CN is called, "supplementary indications" and that it would continue indefinately. I know this because of Canadian customers who submit transactions to us for processing each day - by the millions, and we have to track and continuously convert measures in both directions. It might well be possible that I have seen more of Canada than you have. "My Customers" refers to the reality most of us face and acknowledges what most customers use - I think you know that, and surely, my own customers matter most to me - they should, shouldn't they? |
| #47 By 32132 (66.183.202.89) at 5/24/2007 9:06:04 AM |
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"Personally, I want to save my documents in a format that is vendor neutral"
ASCII would be a good choice for you. Personnally I prefer an Office Suite that has the right set of features and productvity tools. As I've quoted from Wikipedia before: "The OpenDocument ISO specification does not contain a defined formula language. This means that ISO conforming files do not have to be compatible [21]." "The OpenDocument ISO specification does not allow for tables in presentations. " "Different applications using ODF as a standard document format have different methods of providing macro/scripting capabilities. There is no macro language specified in ODF. It is arguable whether there should be or not ." "The ODF standard is insufficiently detailed, requiring excessive application specific namespace extensions to record document features. These application specific namespace extensions are not necessarily interoperable between ODF compliant applications." "Java applets are described as native objects in the OpenDocument specification (§9.3.4). This means any full implementations will require a java virtual machine present from within the application." "The Sun OpenDocument Patent Statement [25] applies to a future version of ODF only if Sun participates in development of that version. If Sun does not participate, then the assurance not seek to enforce any of its enforceable U.S. or foreign patents against any implementation will not apply." |
| #48 By 32132 (142.32.208.234) at 5/24/2007 3:36:17 PM |
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#45 "Every gas station, and every other form of liquid measure in Canada, is in liters."
Like alcohol. Beer is sold in cans of 354ml or 473ml that suspiciously come out to 12oz and 16oz. In fact Canada still uses imperial units as a measure, but to abide by the law they just write the metric equivalent on the imperial measured container. Most of my Canadian friends realize that the conversion to metric is half-hearted. |
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