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Vacuous Vista versioning

Time: 00:34 EST/05:34 GMT | News Source: Macworld | Posted By: Andre Da Costa

The scene opens at MegaTech Solutions, a local reseller of Microsoft Windows- and Vista-compatible computers and software, including the Windows and Vista OSes. Join us now as we listen in on a conversation between a customer and a MegaTech salesperson�

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#26 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at 5/3/2007 11:39:54 PM

#24 Of course it's all about money, that's all it's ever been about. And honestly I don't care how many versions they come up with because quite honestly, even though it's in tiny little baby steps, they're finally coming closer and closer to the Linux distribution model where you get just a single DVD (or several DVD's in some cases) which has your OS on it. When you install, it asks you what features you'd like (yes, real choice!) and then installs it. When you want to add or remove a feature... you can. Vista isn't there yet and the next version of Windows won't be either but who knows... maybe the version after that will finally do it - they just need to work out how to charge and license certain options so that you're not paying for things you won't use. And you'll be able to remove any component of the system that you choose. Maybe.

#27 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/4/2007 1:30:59 AM

#25, See, I knew you didn't actually read all my posts, or the threads they are joined to.

In an earlier post, I said "out of the box" - not some procedure I'd have to follow.

And the deal is that I had already read the reviews on Ubuntu, downloaded many versions of it as well as Xandros and had tested them. I already knew what wouldn't work and what would - it was an expercise to show Latch that Microsoft's ecosystem really does work and people like all of us, are part of that. I didn't have to go hunt a thing - I already knew it. What? You thought I all work on is Windows? Hardly.

But while we're at it - you should know that not all DVD's will play on Ubuntu - even after one executes several procedures that I submit no new user would feel comfortable running - provided they could find them and Latch sure didn't know which brings up another point... who in the heck am I to all when Ubuntu does not work as I need it to? Dell? No way - as I explained in earlier posts, I have had many experiences with Dell techs and the Linuces - and in each case, we were the guys helping them! It was pathetic and we felt bad for them - not to mention the customer paying thousands each year for support contracts that are nothing but compliance toilet paper.

#28 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at 5/4/2007 2:09:43 AM

#27 You did say "out of the box" but I foolishly (I forgot you love to argue semantics!) assumed that when you are buying something from Dell (or any other manufacturer) what THEY give you is what one would term "out of the box". After all, a Dell customer could care less what happened prior to them receiving their desktop (or laptop in your case) and hence the final product is "out of the box". That's why I specifically (and sarcastically) mentioned "and you know what... I think the guys at Dell will click on those options before selling you the pc so that by the time you get home and plug it in... it was play those DVD's "natively"". Now who's not reading whose comments?

As for DVD's not playing on Ubuntu - can you provide some further information on this? - i.e. is this because of some piracy protection that was put in and hence will only work on Windows as it breaks the standard? Or is this a case of a bug in the decoder? Whilst I don't regularly watch DVD's on my pc, I prefer the larger screen of my tv, I haven't had any issues with any DVD's thus far.

As for who to go to in case of problems, I'd start with Google, but in this case given that you purchased it from someone like Dell it'll be up to them to ensure that they train their staff to a level where they can support their products. Whether they can do this or not remains to be seen, as you pointed out in the past they fell far short and I can't say I'm surprised about that. Then again, I've never bought anything from Dell personally so I've never had to deal with their (in)competence.

#29 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 5/4/2007 7:54:56 AM

#27: If you don't like Dell support, and who does, you could purchase your support from Ubuntu itself, and not from Dell.

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/paid

I would believe that Ubuntu's support staff knows the product better than a Dell support person.

As for out fo the box abilities, most Linux distro allow for me to create a document and save it in an ISO standard document format, out of the box. And spreadsheets. And slide presentations. Vista doesn't. In fact, I have to buy Office separately. I still won't get the ability to save to ISO standard formats out of the box. I have to download extra bits separately, and then install them as an add-on component.

#30 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/4/2007 8:17:13 AM

#28, You and I are taking this thread way off topic, and that is fine, it'll be helpful for people who have never used a Linuces much to read of some of it differences and challenges.

However, the discussion centered on Vista versions and how they were presented and understood, or not. I contended that they are clear enough - however dependent upon Microsoft's ecosystem they may be, which is a good "segway" back into our discussion.

I submit that Dell has a lot of work cut out for itself if it is going to support Ubuntu on the desktop and that there is no way such an offering would appeal to anyone other than dedicated Linux enthusiasts. We could go deeper into enhanced mode driver installs for Nvidia and AMD's GPU's or restricted software install procedures - where the phrase, "open a new terminal" would be all too common, but not even Dell is big enough to force resolutions between the FOSS/OSS community and the owners of protected and or restricted software.

DVD's are only one part of it. All the functions people take for granted on a PC for basic support of technologies like FLASH are affected. The issues are not just technical - and that is bad enough - they are legal, political and driven by basic business principles. The reason Ubuntu can't play DVD's out of the box relates to not commercial licensing, but the FOSS/OSS GPL that constrains the relationships that would make it possible. Ubuntu can't play many DVD's because, and I assess owing to the first reason, there is no software that will allow it technically - and one cannot even begin to solve these issues until enhanced mode video drivers are installed, which I point out only to underscore just how much work is left to be done.

Now, if Dell can't well support less diverse configurations and hardware at the server - how in H.E. Double Hocky-Sticks does anyone expect them to support Linux on the desktop?

Can you imagine a non-native English speaker asking Mom, or Aunt May to poke in, sudo nvidia - xconfig -add -argb-glx-visuals into a Terminal? ...and all that is simpler than Microsoft's branding? No it's not and you know that.

So what are people left with? Apple's all unto Apple model? The Linuces and truly endless diversity, complicated by inconsistency and an inherent lack of a responsible party?

Is there any wonder why Microsoft's Windows is so popular? Face it, Windows is a much more complete platform, despite endless diversity and it is supported by an effective ecosystem.

This post was edited by lketchum on Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:26.

#31 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/4/2007 8:32:53 AM

#27: The F/OSS community is just as vibrant and alive as the Windows community, if not more so, just not as large. I have had problems with various distros overs the years and I've never failed to get a solution just by posting something to a user forum.

#32 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/4/2007 8:51:52 AM

#31, Yeah, but Latch, that is just an extension of the larger community that has always characterized personal computing. There have always ben great people helping others out all over the place. We all participate and benefit from that. That is not the point here and it even underscores what I am saying...

Lay users of Ubuntu are going to call Dell, or there aren't going to be any lay users. If all dell does is sell Ubuntu into the existing Linuces enthusiast community, then I submit they are not going to do well at all - since few, if any of that group are going to pick Ubuntu to begin with.
And if pundits, bloggers and young guys at various mags think they are going to raise their street cred by running Ubuntu over some of the other distros all they're going to do is announce that they don't know diddly and expose themselves to some richly deserved heat from the guys that do.

Dell, selling a commercialized distribution will have to be able to support the product fully - but they're going to have to get around the GPL, the community opposed to any commercial software and all the technical issues affecting the distribution. They can do it, but it is not going to cost either Dell or their customers less money that supporting Windows does.

As I have said throughout, this is nothing more than Dell changing the subject - which is fine - just don't kid yourself into thinking that this is any more than that.

#33 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/4/2007 8:58:13 AM

#29, Yes, one could, but how is that less costly than Vista and how is it in any way, less complex than Vista branding? Opposite that, Office/Windows prompts when it requires the ability to read .PDF, for example - same is ture upon set up of Office 2007 and the ability to create .PDF [again, an example]. The point here is that the process on Windows Vista and Office is simpler and requires no direct support.

#34 By 28801 (68.81.50.122) at 5/4/2007 1:03:36 PM

#25: "there's plenty of things which one OS can do out of the box that the other can't. e.g. I can develop applications right out of the box with Ubuntu - can't do that in Vista. "

Hmmmm, perhaps you forgot a little thing called the .NET framework - you can develop apps with a text editor (albiet painfully)
With a few clicks, you can download free versions of their development applications. Granted this option isn't "baked in", but if someone wants to develop apps then I think they can handle downloading and installing these developer tools, which evil Microsoft provides free of charge.

Additionally, you can develop your own widgets for the destop sidebar with a text editor (also out of the box functionality).

#35 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/4/2007 1:30:10 PM

#32: I'm still not sure how this discussion on Vista editions suddenly turned into Dell offering Ubuntu and how it's a deflection move. A long-term deflection plan apparently, since Dell had been soliciting opinions from it's users on Linux for a while preceding their Linux announcement.

#36 By 4240821 (213.139.195.162) at 10/27/2023 3:54:26 AM