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Firefox community weighs up IE 7 threat | |
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| Time: 12:45 EST/17:45 GMT | News Source: ZDNet | Posted By: Chris Hedlund | ||
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One Firefox contributor thinks the browser could grab a 25 percent market share before IE 7 even launches Firefox supporters are confident that Microsoft's plans for version 7 of Internet Explorer will not hinder the open source browser's rapid growth. David McGuinness, a Mozilla contributor, claimed on Tuesday that by the time the next version of IE is released Firefox may already have taken a large proportion of its market share. "The Firefox download rate shows no signs of slowing down and at the current download rate it's possible that Firefox could reach a 25 percent market share well before the final version of IE 7 is released," said McGuinness, on the day that the Mozilla Foundation announced Firefox had been downloaded 25 million times. Already 4.8 percent of Internet surfers are using Firefox, while 92.7 percent are using IE, according to online measurement company WebSideStory's figures from January. | ||
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| #26 By 7797 (63.76.44.6) at 2/16/2005 6:18:24 PM |
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"Overall Firefox is a great first version"
I can already hear LinuxIsTheft claim that Firefox is really not a first version but is based on old spagetti Netscape code, new buggy Mozilla code and that the only reason its called Firefox was to purposely deceive users into thinking it was new. |
| #27 By 7797 (63.76.44.6) at 2/16/2005 6:33:50 PM |
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LinuxIsTheft I didnt admit anything. But since you know so much about this, can you tell us all how much of the old Netscape4 code is still in use in Firefox? Can you give us a percentage? Number of lines of code? Can you point us to that location in Bugzilla you were referring to? No? Ok i didnt think so. This post was edited by tgnb on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 at 18:34. |
| #28 By 29664 (38.116.145.116) at 2/16/2005 6:57:22 PM |
| 39, Heck no he can't. He's too busy calling Firefox buggy because it doesn't have 48 patches. Some day when he stops using AOL he'll see the light. In the meantime it's pointless talking to the wall. |
| #29 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 2/16/2005 10:43:50 PM |
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God forbid Mr. Ballmer and company should er, uh, "run" a publicly traded company and make business decisions... They and their software only fuel most of the professional services markets and in case you've been asleep, or have had your bills all paid for by Mom and Dad, we now have largely a services based economy...
I said it from the outset, the kissy press over FF was more about compelling MS to release more "features" in IE themselves [they've already addressed a major security update in XP SP2] than it was anything else. Yes, they'll roll-up a lot more security and likely native anti-spy-ware; however, it is a business decision none the less. While the devs at FF should be praised, FF ain't no IE and not by a long shot...session_state, apps_state ?? nope, not there [and you all scream about standards <puke>]. Talk to any dev tracking a browser's state and you'll learn exactly what I mean...or how about when FF crashes? Not there either. Look, MS is a business - a very good one [not just a very successful one]. One would be very wise to weigh the benefit business brings...who hires and pays people? Any one of us is capable of stepping up at any time and doing our best to do the same. Do that, and you'll earn the right to carp at MS...unless of course you can put us all on a Starship and induce some kind of universal utopia where we all just work to do our best...we're just not there, yet... Just be grateful to both groups for continuing to build good products that many of us use nearly every day. |
| #30 By 29664 (70.57.56.211) at 2/17/2005 1:15:21 AM |
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'The only way to be up to date is to download the daily builds'
dude what the hell are you talking about????? Daily builds? since I downloaded 1.0 FF there have been no less than 8 or 9 IE patches and no "daily builds" What toilet are you fishing this &*(^ out of? |
| #31 By 3 (62.253.128.15) at 2/17/2005 6:15:11 AM |
| #55 - No it only counts the final release of Firefox nothing before or after. |
| #32 By 7797 (68.142.9.161) at 2/17/2005 7:55:04 AM |
| So LinuxIsTheft am I right to assume that you can't tell us how much of the old Netscape4 code is still in use in Firefox. Am i right to assume you can't give us a percentage? Am I right to assume that you can't give us a number of lines of code? Am i right to assume you can't point us to that location in Bugzilla you were referring to? Am I right to assume that you don't know your browser history? Ah ok, I thought so. |
| #33 By 7797 (68.142.9.161) at 2/17/2005 7:59:35 AM |
| Hey LinuxIsTheft how much of IE1 code is still in Internet Explorer? Oh you don't know? Why? You can't download the source? Oh well aren't you happy to be able to directly compare? When did Netscape open the code? When did netscape decide to rewrite almost everything? Was that in 1998? What date did you say those files you found were from? What? 1999? You mean AFTER the decision to re-write? What? Strange.. Oh so you dont know about the browser's history? Thought so. |
| #34 By 29664 (38.116.145.116) at 2/17/2005 10:22:58 AM |
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LinuxIsTheft is on crack and can't read. Keeps spewing BS about 'daily builds' and security concerns. Like IE is any better? Give me a break. This site needs an ignore switch.
#54: Why? I'm bored with people that can't list SPECIFIC reasons why they don't care for a product. |
| #35 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 2/17/2005 12:54:23 PM |
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I'm bored with people that can't list SPECIFIC reasons why they don't care for a product.
Well, several have been listed already. I use it a lot personally, but won't be deploying it more broadly, because: 1) Rendering issues. Not a huge number, but enough to warrant keeping IE always at the ready... which suggests just using IE in the first place. 2) Patching issues. Manually patching is not an option, and FFDeploy does not compare to SMS or SUS/WUS. Actually, Parkker <ahem> LinuxIsTheft raises a good point--where are the patches? I see references to nightly builds on their site... um, I'm not rolling out a new browser install every night! And the "check for updates" feature--does that really even work? I downloaded 1.0 I think the day it was released, and "check for updates" never finds anything... yet I see a new build even as of today (2/17). 3) Support issues. "Where are my favorites?" "Where are my bookmarks?" "I made a bookmark yesterday [in FF], but now I don't see it [in IE]... where is it?" "Why does [insert site here] look funny/not work?" Along with that, there are business applications that don't work properly in FF. 4) Security issues. Yes, IE has issues. But FF does as well... and both will have more over time. So, should I effectively double the number of issues that I need to address, or stick with one set? 5) Training issues. Tabbed browsing is great, but the benefit would not be seen by many users unless we took some time to train them on it. Sure, they don't have to use it... but it begs the question of why we're switching browsers in the first place... if the primary reason is security, we can solve that with IE by using SP2 and running accounts as restricted users. So what reason is there for switching again? I can't see any good ones... nothing that makes it worth it. That may change with 1.5 or 2.0... but it's all speculation at this point. And we'll have to evaluate those against IE 7, and who knows what that will bring. |
| #36 By 7797 (63.76.44.77) at 2/17/2005 3:38:41 PM |
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LinuxIsTheft your method for figuring out how much of Firefox is netscape4 code is flawed to the bone. Your brief skim method doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Counting the number of Files with a 199 copyright is not an accurate method to determining anything. How about you do some REAL research and come up wiht some REAL facts. Oh i forgot you are unable to do that. Nevermind then i guess. Oh and werent you gonna tell us how much IE / mosaic code is in IE6? No? oh ok. no source code available to do a halfassed evaluation with eh? This post was edited by tgnb on Thursday, February 17, 2005 at 15:40. |
| #37 By 7797 (68.142.9.161) at 2/17/2005 6:49:03 PM |
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"I think its pretty accurate. "
Just because you think it is, doesn't make it so. I don't doubt there is some code in there thats older than 1998. Nobody is denying they used "some" old code or "some portions" of the old code. But to go through the files and search for a copyright 1999 date, then assuming the entire file is netscape 4 based and then comparing the number of files (instead of the number of lines of code) will not give an accurate picture of what percentage of code is netscape4. You know what and EVEN if 25 percent is netscape4 code (which it probably isnt) that doesnt necessarily mean its bad. not ALL code in NS4 was bad. Why re-invent the wheel on the code that was of good quality? In any case your method is still flawed, its certainly not scientific or accurate. |
| #38 By 7797 (63.76.44.6) at 2/18/2005 10:45:33 AM |
| LinuxIsTheft you have thus far not provided any conclusive evidence that 25% of the Firefox Code comes from Netscape4. You have also not answered some of my other questions. You continue to evade some of the points i make while also continuing to claim your method is accurate. I dont know how much Netscape4 code is in Firefox. It might be 25% and it might not be. But your method of trying to figure it out is flawed. And as I said, even if it IS 25% does that make it necessarily bad? All Netscape4 code was shit? None of it was re-usable? |
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