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Green Hills calls Linux 'insecure' for defense | |
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| Time: 00:00 EST/05:00 GMT | News Source: EETimes | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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Thank you Bruce. "A storm has erupted in the embedded community, with real-time operating systems house Green Hills charging that Linux is fundamentally insecure and wide open to security breaches by "foreign intelligence agencies and terrorists." " | ||
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| #26 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 4/12/2004 9:14:40 PM |
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Parker, does the NSA have its own version of Linux?
YES Is it well known that Linux is widely used throughout the NSA (whether or not it is SE-Linux), despite their operational unwillingness to speak about what they do use? YES So how does the fact that the NSA says they have not done a source code review of SE-Linux = it is bullsh!t to say: "That's why the NSA — the most security-conscious organization in the world — chose to standardize on Linux, and even supplies its own version of secure Linux." Oh, it doesn't... We are just descending further and further into that utterly ludicrous world of Parkker's logic! This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, April 12, 2004 at 21:16. |
| #27 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 4/12/2004 9:23:53 PM |
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By the way... you said:
"When Groklaw publishes such obviously checkable lies" However, you have not enumerated anything more than one "lie" which you have not proven -- whether or not the NSA has standardized on Linux. Your own comments show, logically, that you cannot prove or disprove this statement: "For obvious reasons, NSA does not comment on operational uses." So, you have one theoretical "lie" which you cannot prove or disprove and... What? Please point out these lies which you have completely and utterly failed to expose. |
| #28 By 135 (208.186.90.168) at 4/12/2004 9:42:03 PM |
| This is all interesting and everything, but I highly doubt the military would rely upon Linux or any other off the shelf OS to run their critical systems. |
| #29 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 4/12/2004 9:45:24 PM |
| "It's definitely a hot topic right now," says Lisa Nyman, senior Internet technologist at the U.S. Census Bureau and chief architect of QuickFacts, an interactive feature on the U.S. Census Web site that lets visitors look up census data and federal statistics by city name. Written with the help of Perl scripts and built atop a collection of open source technologies--MySQL, Linux, Apache--QuickFacts has propelled Nyman into the limelight, as least as far as the Washington D.C. open source development community is concerned. |
| #30 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 4/12/2004 9:46:47 PM |
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http://www.gcn.com/vol1_no1/daily-updates/1816-1.html
"NOAA predicts Linux supercomputer will improve forecasts" |
| #31 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 4/12/2004 9:47:47 PM |
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http://portal.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SJK/appearances/cluster/gcn2.html
"NCSA’s Linux supercomputer will test Itanium" |
| #32 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 4/12/2004 9:49:23 PM |
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http://www.mandrakebizcases.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=172
"Military Defense Systems use Mandrake Linux" |
| #33 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 4/12/2004 9:51:02 PM |
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http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7581242228.html
"Embedded Linux is starting to penetrate embedded computer applications within the U.S. Military -- a phenomenon attributed to the operating system's stability, real-time capabilities, and open source license." "rymicNET will shortly begin its initial tests at Fort Riley, Kansas. Prospective Army applications include the Bradley fighting vehicle, heavy expanded mobility tactical trucks, and humvees." |
| #34 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 4/12/2004 9:52:09 PM |
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http://mae.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=100164
"Soldier's handheld radio to use Linux" |
| #35 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 4/12/2004 9:52:53 PM |
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http://linuxpr.com/releases/4262.html
"GET Engineering Chooses MontaVista for Military and Aerospace Applications" |
| #36 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 4/12/2004 9:53:38 PM |
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I guess your doubts are unfounded, soda.
;-) Hell, even O'Dowd accepts that... "Everyday that code is incorporated into our command, control, communications and weapons systems." This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, April 12, 2004 at 22:44. |
| #37 By 9589 (66.57.154.150) at 4/13/2004 4:04:43 AM |
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Could someone please disconnect sodajerk from Google . . . Alright; already, we know you know how to use it. Bravo!
Parker, the puss of the open sore is upon you! Whew! 51 posts and counting. lol |
| #38 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 4/13/2004 11:05:33 AM |
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sodajerk - Military has several levels of technology. I was talking about the critical systems like missile guidance, radar defense, that sort of thing.
Try again. I already know that the military uses Windows on the laptops that soldiers carry, but that's different from a system flying the planes. |
| #39 By 19992 (68.169.46.164) at 4/13/2004 7:28:00 PM |
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Parkker
By your logic, at the least we should also remove all copies of Windows (parts of it are developed in Japan, the UK and India), Exchange server (HP writes alot of the docs and help files in Colorado Springs and the UK) and Checkpoint Firewall (Israeli owned),. I'm certain there are more, but I really don't feel like going out a doing a Google to see what other companies have development shops outside of the United States. You'd truly be surprised at the level of effort the U.S Government puts in testing out systems they put online. They A) perform a basic code review (this is by no means exhaustive) and B) try to hack the crap out of the machine. This is done for all systems that have access to outside resources. Should something suspicious be found that system is generally banned from residing on the network. At this time I'm aware of a couple of network switches, PBX units and browsers that are forbidden for use in the parts of U.S Government. Muddle, I negelected the BSD UNIX variants. Good point. The Sun x86 UNIX is free for internal development use, educational use or for a 60 day evaluation. None of these is really conducive to developing embedded systems ofr retail or military markets. |
| #40 By 19992 (68.169.46.164) at 4/13/2004 7:44:10 PM |
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Sodablue
I agree that sodajerk offered some fairly weak examples from the mission critical point of view. However, I'm aware of the reconaissance vehicle made by Raytheon. Here's a brief blurb about it: "Another exciting development for Linux is in the military arena. A team from Raytheon writes about their experiences with a reconnaissance vehicle, which they call the Reconnaissance, Surveillance and Target Acquisition Mission Equipment Package. This vehicle is able to apply embedded Linux to quickly coordinate assessments on a battlefield using real-time information gathered from onboard and offboard sensors. It's quite an application." A couple of years ago I would have agreed that Linux would have been a disaster on a real time mission critical system. As a RTOS is quite simply sucked eggs, It has 'grown up' quite a bit as far as it's real time capabilities are concerned. Assuming the current upswing and acceptance of Linux in the government and private industry continues unabated I think we'll start seeing Linux used more and more in the arena of missile control and radar defense in the years to come. |
| #41 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 4/13/2004 9:00:41 PM |
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Please, happyguy, don't give soda any credit... The fact is he is trying to draw you into a chicken and egg problem. One of my examples says it would be deployed across a network of bradleys, humvees, and other mechanized vehicles... That's not mission critical?
The problem is: anythign that sodablue is going to deem worthy of "mission critical" status on his part is going to be classified. If we don't know that it's not Linux, even though the entire military industry besides Green Hill is converting to Linux for all embedded and RTOS applications, then it can't be Linux. If we know it's Linux, it ain't mission critical. However, anyone who knows anything about or anyone in the military industry knows that Linux is spreading like gangbusters. Clearly this topic was killed... No one but Parker takes O' Dowd seriously. Equivalent CEOs in competing military industrial applications have stated why they use Linux and why it is growing. Linux is in the military, and it is not a threat to backdoors created by foreign spies. |
| #42 By 19992 (68.169.46.164) at 4/13/2004 9:38:16 PM |
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Sodajerk
Actually, I wouldn't consider the application you referenced in HumVees, bradleys and 'other machanized vehicles' as mission critical. It's a diagnostics system for the machine. Handy, yes, mission critical? Not really. |
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