#36 - "Plus another evidence for the existence of God are countless documented miracles throughout the history and even nowadays. Ever heard of Fatima miracle (witnessed by 70000+ people) and other similar apparitions of Virgin Mary ?"
Sigh... yes, and all the "documented" UFO sightings? These aren't documented, they're attested to by people who have a great deal to gain if they're true... or, at the very least, are a little more comfortable with their world view.
Not a single "miracle" has ever been document or analyzed in any scientific matter... or, rather, none of those miracles actually turned out to be miracles.
As a matter of fact, I was just in Colorado last weekend. There is supposedly a well there that was deemed a miracle by the Catholic church. I happened to be driving by during the day all the Catholics were flocking to the well to pray. The story goes that some Saint (this was her 3rd miracle I guess... how convenient) had prayed by the well, and even during extreme drought, the well never ran dry. Obviously a miracle... or not.
After a bit of inquiry, I discovered that the well is now known (thanks to some skeptical scientists who became interested in the well because of the supernatural claims) to be fed by a massive underground aquifer. So the well is very ordinary, albeit very useful during a drought like the one going on in Colorado right now. Does this stop people from claiming it's a miracle? Nope... the church STILL recognizes it as an OFFICIAL miracle! And people STILL flock there, like a bunch of blind sheep. They don't CARE that it's not a miracle... they want to believe so much, the truth doesn't matter.
As far as the Heaven's Gate example... it's really just that, and example. You still rely on a book created by PEOPLE who had a cause to support. That makes your only "evidence" suspect at the very least.
#38 - "Despite how RMD and many of the scientific folk portray themselves, essentially, they have faith not knowledge as well."
You are incorrect. Faith, as I've stated, is belief without reason - without evidence to support those beliefs. It also means that there is very little chance any of thing things you believe in because of your faith will ever be disproved... because there is no evidence of them to begin with.
Science, on the other hand, is belief ONLY due to reason and evidence. If even a single example evidence appears that cannot be explained by the theory, poof... scientists (and skeptics alike), stop believing in it.
Science is inherently a self-correcting PROCESS. It is not knowledge, nor has anybody every claimed it to be. It is a process for gaining knowledge which reflects those most accurate possible view of reality, and I would say it works quite well.
Religion, on the other hand, is inherently self-ENFORCING "knowledge". I put that in quotes, because things that are made up can't really be considered knowledge. Perhaps I should say "memes" or "ideas" instead.
So, clearly, there is a fundamental difference between science and religion. This is a difference religious people don't like to acknoweldge.
#39 - Great quote (and article)... personally, I'm a HUGE fan of Jefferson (if he existed, of course... haha), and here is one of my favorite quotes from him:
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature. Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." – Jefferson
This post was edited by RMD on Monday, July 22, 2002 at 23:05.
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