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  Why Nader's Microsoft plan is flawed
Time: 14:55 EST/19:55 GMT | News Source: Associated Press | Posted By: Alex Harris

COMMENTARY--Let me get this straight. Ralph Nader (news - web sites) -- former presidential candidate (and close friend of Al Gore (news - web sites)), consumer crusader and political activist -- believes the way to bring Bill Gates (news - web sites) to his knees is for President Bush (news - web sites), in the guise of the Office of Management and Budget, to mandate that the government limit its purchases of Microsoft products.

In other words, spread the dollars around to Apple, IBM, Corel, Linux (news - web sites) firms and other manufacturers to encourage competition and get better pricing. Or as Nader himself told Reuters, "The only consumer in North America who can break up the Microsoft monopoly simply through purchasing strategies is the U.S. government."

In a letter addressed to Mitchell E. Daniels, Jr., Director of the OMB, Nader also suggests other remedies, like having the government "consider a cost benefit analysis to determine whether dominant software providers should make their source code public, in order to enhance interoperability with products offered by smaller competitors." Or, he said, the U.S. government should consider compelling Microsoft to port its Office suite to competing platforms.

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#1 By 20 (24.243.51.87) at 6/7/2002 10:48:10 AM
*sigh* I'm sick of morons criticizing the electoral college. Next thing you know, they'll be criticizing the 2nd Amendment... oh that's right, they already do!

I laugh at people that think they understand civics better than the founding fathers.

There's a very strong and necessary reason for the electoral college. If, for nothing else, it prevents California and New York from deciding the president in every election. With the electoral college, they have a strong voice, but they don't control it like they would without the college.

At least now, Indiana, Kansas, Rhode Island, etc have SOME say in the matter.

#2 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 6/7/2002 2:00:33 PM
#7 - You do a disservice to our country by claiming Gore is the same as Bush. The Gore team didn't want to win nearly as badly as the Bush team. Gore wanted to abide by the laws and do the right thing... Bush simply said to hell with the law, let's rig this thing.


And daz - In 1993 I sat there arguing with Republicans claiming Clinton was not a legitimate president because he got less than 50% of the vote.

What does it mean when our current President got not only less than 50%, but had fewer votes than the other candidate?

If you are going to be consistent, you have to admit Bush is not legitimate.

#3 By 20 (24.243.51.87) at 6/7/2002 2:08:56 PM
Nader is like the Marx of our time (or perhaps Lenin). Full of ideas that sound really great, but no pratical experience and no consideration for the human spirit that will screw up any plans to make a utopian society.

And #9 (sodablue) I don't know even where to start. It seems you have fallen hook, line, and sinker for the liberal brainwashing machine. To say that "Gore team didn't want to win nearly as badly as the Bush team" and then say "Bush simply said to hell with the law" and expect to be taken seriously is laughable.

Do you honestly believe that Gore didn't try and it was BUSH who said to hell with the law? Don't you remember all the ballot shenanigans the Democrats were pushing? Gore kept talking about the will of the people, not the law. Bush kept talking about the Rule of Law.

Come on, wake up and smell the coffee. Ever since the 50s and 60s, Democrats have pulled every trick (legal and illegal) to get more votes. From giving cigarrettes to homeless people, to Daley's and Clinton's dead-man-voting tricks, they will stop at nothing to get votes. They lie, cheat, steal, decieve minority groups like Blacks into believing they are the champions of human rights and dignity with rediculous programs like affirmative action and quotas.

For the record, I never said that Clinton was illegitimate. He won the electoral college. Perhaps not fair and square, but what's done is done. If Clinton was illegitimate, it was because of his treason and abuse of power. Selling out the country (Lincoln bedroom, coffees, grave plots in Arlington cemetery, rides on Air Force 1, nuclear secrets, missle secrets, guidance secrets to the Chinese) would make him illegitimate.

This post was edited by daz on Friday, June 07, 2002 at 14:10.

#4 By 20 (24.243.51.87) at 6/7/2002 2:26:04 PM
#11: but you probably support abortion (killing babies) right?

People seem to miss the irony between it being NOT OK to kill convicted murderers and rapists, but it being OK to kill innocent babies.

(for the record, I'm anti-death penalty too. I respect life in all stages)

#5 By 20 (24.243.51.87) at 6/7/2002 2:27:57 PM
#12: yeah. I don't know what MS' hang up about this is. People buy Word because of all its functionality, not because of the file format.

However, I might be wrong there, actually. People think that they have to have Word to communicate with their co workers and never consider buying anything else.

Since most major competitors have at least the basic word-processing functionality of Word, opening the format would actually take lots of business.

Please ignore me, I'm arguing with myself.

#6 By 6859 (204.71.100.215) at 6/7/2002 2:46:12 PM
Just for the record, I respect nothing. ;)

But seriously, we've gotten a wee bit off topic here. This is about Nader's flawed plan, not about Bush, Gore, or even Clinton. Let me break it down for you: *every* politician is a lying, scheming, "no-good, low-down, double-dealing, larcenous, perverted, worm. Hanging is too good for them. Burning is too good for them. They should be torn into teeny little pieces and buried alive!" [the last quote curtesy of Hannover Fiste, from the Heavy Metal movie.]

The only politician I would ever trust is myself, and I even have reservations on that.

Now back on track. Nader's plan is so laughable I'm amazed he mentioned it in anything bust jest. Of course, he's an idiot who, as I've said before, isn't aware of the topic, is less than technologically saavy, and is irrelevent in today's debates. He's a loser. 'Nuff said.

#7 By 20 (24.243.51.87) at 6/7/2002 3:03:45 PM
#15 Realist: You're not much of a realist. Don't you read the news? The Democrat's illegal voting schemes are well covered. Several people have gone to jail over it, yet they still do it every year.

I challenge you to find any such article or conviction of a Republican, let alone an organized effort by the RNC. The DNC has both of these.

I never said that Republicans are of the highest moral character, but in general they don't violate the law to win an election. They may do some dirty, underhanded things (like run nasty ads, exaggerate the flaws of opponents, take some money through questionalbe means, etc). But they don't go block by block handing out cigarettes to homeless people, nor do they fake records of dead people to vote.

-d

The only reason Shakespeare said "The first thing we do, is kill all the lawyers" is because he knew you had to get rid of them before you took on the politicians.

#8 By 6859 (204.71.100.215) at 6/7/2002 5:07:24 PM
daz said: "The only reason Shakespeare said "The first thing we do, is kill all the lawyers" is because he knew you had to get rid of them before you took on the politicians."

I always figured it was from alimony. LOL

#9 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 6/7/2002 7:12:32 PM
daz - Oh give me a bloody break.

"For the record, I never said that Clinton was illegitimate. He won the electoral college. Perhaps not fair and square, but what's done is done. If Clinton was illegitimate, it was because of his treason and abuse of power. Selling out the country (Lincoln bedroom, coffees, grave plots in Arlington cemetery, rides on Air Force 1, nuclear secrets, missle secrets, guidance secrets to the Chinese) would make him illegitimate."

Let's go through that shall we?

How did Clinton not win in '93 fair and square? You're lying.
Treason? Again you're lying
Abuse of power? Again you're lying
Lincoln Bedroom? Well gee, how about selling pics of the President riding aboard Air Force One? Both are harmless.
Arlington Cemetary plots? Again, you're lying.
Nuclear secrets? Again, more lies.
Missile secrets? Are we seeing a pattern here?

I'm surprised you didn't try to bring up Vince Foster, Mena, Whitewater, Troopergate, Travelgate, oh what else... My god, those were all lies to. You want to talk about abuse of power, you need look to non other than the Republicans in throwing false allegations one after another against President Clinton.

Look to Cheney/Bush trying to cover up the energy market manipulation in 2001 and you'll see abuse of power. Stays in the lincoln bedroom, rides on air force one? These pale in comparison to bilking American Citizens out of *BILLIONS* of dollars.

Now back to the election scandal... There were no democrat shennigans with the ballots, the only shennigans were all the Republicans whining and refusing to let the state and county officials do their jobs.

"The Democrat's illegal voting schemes are well covered. Several people have gone to jail over it, yet they still do it every year. "

Source please.

"I never said that Republicans are of the highest moral character, but in general they don't violate the law to win an election. "

Well you were right on one thing, Republicans aren't of the highest moral character. They will do anything to win, including breaking the law as they did in 2000, not to mention 1972. Look at it, the same hatred and greed that drove Watergate happened again in 2000, you'd think they would learn.

"But they don't go block by block handing out cigarettes to homeless people, nor do they fake records of dead people to vote. "

Really?

http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/1998/05/04/p4s1.htm

Xavier Suarez was removed from office when it was found out he had filled out absentee ballots in the name of dead people. Strangely enough, he was put in charge of absentee balloting for the 2000 election in Miami-Dade county for the Republican party. Now why would you trust a bank robber to guard your bank safe?

Give it up daz. The Republicans are dirty, and this nonsense of trying to claim that no it's really the Democrats by telling lies and spreading rumors is over. David Brock wised me up to your dirty tricks, and I say NO MORE.

#10 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 6/7/2002 7:16:23 PM
Did I mention the first network to declare Bush was President was Fox News at 2am. Who was the anchor? John Ellis... A First Cousin of George W. Bush. It's also no surprise that Ellis was in touch by telephone the entire night with the Bush family.

Can you say major conflict of interest? You want to talk about ethics again daz?

#11 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 6/7/2002 7:19:41 PM
Oh wow, here's an interesting story in Time magazine about the Republican lie machine...

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,59665,00.html

Still want to deny it daz, or are you going to start learning to think for yourself?

#12 By 20 (24.243.51.87) at 6/7/2002 10:13:55 PM
#20 man, soda, you are sorely misinformed or just not informed at all. Have you been in a bubble the past 8-10 years?

"How did Clinton not win in 93 fair and square?"
I already went over this. There were several stories in several major newspapers about thousands of dead people in California voting for Clinton. Man, ActiveWin doesn't have enough HD space to store all the stories of the DNC paying voters, giving them favors, passing out flyers in poor neighborhoods lying about the Republicans, etc.

"Treason? Again you're lying"
Clinton's selling of the White House, nuclear secrets, missle secrets, and just about everything else to the Chinese government is a well-recorded matter.

Have you ever even HEARD of the Washington Post? This was major news for like the last 3 years of his presidency.

"Abuse of Power? Again you're lying"
Were you in a foreign country when the Lewinsky story hit? Bigtime coverup. He abused his power to obstruct justice. Again, a well documented matter. Look at every news story from 1998 to 2000 or so.

"Lincoln Bedroom? Well gee how about selling pics of the President..."
Oh my god. You really can't be serious, can you? You don't see the obvious difference of RENTING out the bedroom of the People's house for campaign contributions?

1. This is against the law. 2. All the money that pays for the upkeep of the bedroom is our money, and we didn't see a dime of the Rent for it and 3. JESUS CHRIST MAN, OPEN YOUR EYES

"Arlington Cemetery Plots? Again you're lying"
OMG, do you only watch the nightly news?
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/1997/printer_41.shtml
http://insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=208798
Here it is from a Democrat!
http://www.house.gov/clyburn/col971215a.html

"Nuclear Secrets? Again, more lies"
You don't remember about all the hard drives stolen from Los Alamos nuclear research center?
You don't remember that the people suspected were all current or former Clinton staffers or associates, or those working for the LIppo Group, a major Chinese-based corporation and one of the largest investors in Clinton's Campgains?

"Missle Secrets? Again more lies"
You don't remember all the stories about the thefts from research labs in the US, and the rocket that Clinton requested be launched from China (even though there was a US policy not to launch classified equipement from China) that contained positioning and guidance systems that the Chinese needed to complete their TBM and ICBM programs?

Yeah, the rocket "mysteriously" exploded 1 mile after launch and federal security officers wouldn't let the Hughes technicians to the crash scene until several hours later when they found the crucial systems were missing from the crash site.

Several months later, China announced the completion of their TBM program and now, thanks to Clinton, we have Chinese nukes pointed at San Francisco and LA.



#13 By 20 (24.243.51.87) at 6/7/2002 10:14:07 PM
(continued)
Don't even start on Vince Foster (found drug outside his appartment with a gunshot wound in the BACK of his head, even though he supposedly committed SUICIDE, yeah right), or Travel gate, or the assassination of Ron Brown (supposedly died in a crash in Bosnia, but he had a gunshot wound to the side of his head. Interesting how he'd get shot in the plane crash. Oh yeah, he was set to testify against Clinton in whitewater in a month)

It's like the Mafia.

The worst thing they can come up with against Bush/Cheney is that they MIGHT have had some influence from *GASP* the ENERGY INSDUSTRY *GASP* on their ENERGY POLICY! OMG!
Now we see Bush backing down on Alaska, protecting oil fields in Florida, and supporting global warming.

WOW, WHAT A CONSPIRACY! ENRON INFLUENCED THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION TO DO EXACTLY WHAT WAS NOT IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF ENRON! Man, you really cracked that one!

As for Democrat shenanigans, have you been living in a box? John Daley was renouned for his making thousands of voters come back to life and vote for Democrats.

In 2000, there were thousands of dead, illegal alien, felon, and double/triple voters voting for Gore. In California alone, there were something like 20,000.

Fortunately, they found most of them and threw them out, but I'm sure many thousands slipped by in other states.




#14 By 20 (24.243.51.87) at 6/7/2002 10:17:50 PM
As for the Fox guy, they found out his tie, he was exposed. Fox reprimanded him and took away his career, basically. He can no longer appear on camera and he no longer gets bylines, which is basically being cut off from journalism.

Unfortunately, this kind of bias appears all over the rest of the media, but they never are reprimanded for yellow journalism.

It's really sad, Soda, that you are so sorely misinformed -- that you'll listen to Dan Rather and believe every word he says and not assume that he might be biased or putting his spin on it.

It's sad that you thought most of what I sad was lies, when, in fact, in 1997, all of those stories were front-page stories in the NY Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal and several other respectable newspapers.

Of course, you'll never hear about a single Democrat scandal on the main TV networks unless it's someone that has been sanctioned by the DNC to be attacked such as Gary Condit.

We almost NEVER heard of the whole Gore phone calls from the white house, or his illegal visit to the Bhudist temples in California.

Man, it's like every day in the Clinton/Gore White house, a new law was being broken.

#15 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 6/8/2002 2:37:40 AM
daz - My god you just suck up the lies told by the Arkansas project without even questioning. Especially of all things the Vince Foster suicide. That story was as lame and phony as a $3 bill with GW Bush's picture on it.

How bloody moronic can you possibly be?

Why don't you question these stories before you go spouting them off? Get to the source of them? Lies and innuendo might make good news copy, but when the government blows millions on special prosecutors and the best he can come up with is "There is no evidence of any crime being violated" doesn't that just kind of make you wonder?

Or are you just a sheep, listening daily to Rush Limbaugh to find out how you should think today?

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#24 By 4240821 (109.94.216.41) at 11/5/2023 12:56:21 AM
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