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Microsoft: Sorry, you can't use these vouchers to learn Linux | |
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| Time: 08:55 EST/13:55 GMT | News Source: TechFlash | Posted By: Kenneth van Surksum | ||
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Microsoft and Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire this morning held a news conference in downtown Seattle to announce the company's donation of 30,000 vouchers for people in the state to learn new computer skills, positioning themselves for better jobs. As a point of clarification, officials were asked whether the vouchers would be good for learning non-Microsoft programs, too.
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| #1 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 4/14/2009 9:51:08 AM |
| I have no problem with MS restricting their offer to MS only technologies, but the offer should state that up front. |
| #2 By 12071 (124.171.5.131) at 4/14/2009 10:40:08 AM |
| Agree - whilst it's not difficult to see why Microsoft is doing this... let's call this what it is... vouchers to learn Microsoft skills, not computer skills! |
| #3 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at 4/14/2009 11:52:09 AM |
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#2 Absolutely. I tell everyone that.
Quit wasting your time on "Linux Skills". That has nothing to do with "Computer Skills". |
| #4 By 12071 (203.210.68.145) at 4/14/2009 10:43:38 PM |
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#3 The difference being that the skills you learn on Linux can be used on other *nix's, OS X and even Windows. The skills that Microsoft will teach you can be used... on their products only and most likely they will be for a particular version of their products so the next time they change things around there will be a re-learning process involved (see: Vista).
See there's no such thing as word processing skills when Microsoft is involved... you only learn Word skills. There's no spreadsheet skills... you only learn Excel skills. There's no web skills... you only learn IE skills. There's no multimedia skills... you only learn WMP and WMM and the like. |
| #5 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 4/15/2009 7:20:49 AM |
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#4: Here's where we differ. To suggest that MS skills are not transferable to other technologies is ridiculous:
1. "See there's no such thing as word processing skills when Microsoft is involved... you only learn Word skills. There's no spreadsheet skills... you only learn Excel skills. " That is just plain stupid. Every word processing & spreadsheet program has it's idiosyncrasies. Basically, if you learn one you can learn another. 2. "There's no web skills... you only learn IE skills. " Are you talking about Web Programming? HTML is HTML, Javascript is Javascript. ASP is so similar to JSP they even share 2 letters. Are you seriously gonna tell me that principals of programming (not language specifics) involving .Net or Silverlight could not be used in Java or Flash? . Are you seriously telling me that a SQL Server Developer couldn't write PLSQL if he had a Google session open on his browser? Are you seriously telling me that a C# developer couldn't learn JAVA or vice versa? |
| #6 By 12071 (124.171.5.131) at 4/15/2009 8:54:02 AM |
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#5 I am of course making a bigger fuss over it than it actually deserves but it was only to illustrate my point. That's not to say that if you learn Word and Excel that you cannot use any other word processing or spreadsheet application... it's that you won't want to. You'll be, to be a little sensationalistic about it again, brainwashed into thinking that Word = word processing and Excel = spreadsheet in exactly the same way that so many people think that the little blue IE = internet. My point was that these aren't basic computer skills as such (and from Microsoft's point of view they're not supposed to be! after all they're paying for the facilities, the lecturers, the equipment etc etc) they're more so specialized skills to ensure that those people continue using Microsoft software. This is why you have so many people on here that are so adamant about not using anything that didn't come from Microsoft as it's not what they're used to and as a result anything different = bad. Whilst I can't give you a link to any study backing the following statement done, partly as I can't be bothered opening another tab to Google it and partly because I don't think such a study has been performed, I'd happily go out on a limb to say that in general (and the overwhelming majority) people will use and continue to use whatever software they initially were taught/shown. Yes it's possible to switch, but people are, in general, creatures of habit. We like what we know and having to try something different, even though it might be a million times better, is hard work. And Microsoft know this. They're not stupid, they're not happy to offer all this training for nothing :)
"Basically, if you learn one you can learn another." But only a minority will bother trying to learn another unless they're forced. Heck, I've seen many people use Word as a page layout tool instead of something like Quark as that's what they're used to. "Are you talking about Web Programming?" No no, I was talking about IE = internet. "ASP is so similar to JSP they even share 2 letters." Yes, they share "Server Pages", although to be pedantic in the case of JSP, "JavaServer" is actually one word :p I never did any ASP programming so I'll have to take your word on that. ASP.net is closer to JSF which only shares 1 letter :) "Are you seriously gonna tell me that principals of programming (not language specifics) involving .Net or Silverlight could not be used in Java or Flash?" I'm going to be pedantic and say that it completely depends on what you're being taught. If you're being taught OO, as you should be as that is the core skill (similar to the computer skills we're talking about in this topic) then yes these can be used for ANY OO language and then it's a matter of learning the syntax etc. And I think this is what you mean. If on the other hand you're being taught Visual Studio and C# specific things then obviously that is no longer the case and I would argue this is like being taught Word/Excel specific things for instance. "Are you seriously telling me that a C# developer couldn't learn JAVA or vice versa?" I have two teams of both C# and Java developers - both really skilled and both that understand the strengths and weaknesses of each language/platform etc. I can also tell you that when starting out, it's a lot easier, from my experience, to get a Java developer to learn C# (and Ruby, Python as it may be required) then it is the other way around. The developers that learnt C# as their first major language, learnt Visual Studio and hence find it difficult to step out of that familiarity. That's not to say that Visual Studio isn't a great IDE, it is (except for out of the box support for RAD tools, refactoring etc for which you need JetBrains ReSharper), but there's plenty that Eclipse has to offer for instance. |
| #7 By 12071 (124.171.5.131) at 4/15/2009 8:54:39 AM |
| My point is, always try to learn the fundamental skills regardless of what you are doing, because those are transferable. If you lock yourself in to learning a particular product be aware that all you'll really ever know is that product. |
| #8 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at 4/15/2009 10:24:57 AM |
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#7 That is one of the dumbest things I have EVER read on this site.
Thats like saying if you learn one computer language all you will ever know is that one language. As some who learned 10 in the my university years and many more since then, I happen to know you are completely wrong. |
| #9 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 4/15/2009 12:48:29 PM |
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#8: Thats like saying if you learn one computer language all you will ever know is that one language.
That's not what he said at all. He said that most people will tend to stick to something they know well and will not change unless there is some impetus to do so. If you were given a programming project whose requirements did not specify any particular language to be used, would you tend to do it in the language you know best or would you decide to learn a completely new language just for the sake of it? You know (or maybe you don't), just because you disagree with some people doesn't mean you must take an opposing viewpoint about *everything*. What Kabuki said was common-sense. |
| #10 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 4/15/2009 1:32:28 PM |
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I like what Chris said and favor classically trained OO devs over all others - they adapt well and quickly to new languages and technologies and have a very solid understanding of dev processes. I also look for people who speak, read and write in multiple 'spoken' languages. They tend to have very flexible minds.
I also like .NET and MS's IDE - as you all know, the number of languages one may access is diverse - so reaching for any 'one' of them may be driven by what works best. I think Chris and NotP are closer on this issue than it might appear. |
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