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Microsoft Report Miscalculates 'Apple Tax' | |
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| Time: 17:43 EST/22:43 GMT | News Source: eWeek | Posted By: Andre Da Costa | ||
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There are reasons why sponsored reports are often dismissed as propaganda. Microsoft's sponsored "Apple Tax" report trips up on the facts. I've learned something writing about Apple for about a decade: Mac enthusiasts care about the minutia. Details matter to them, and if you write about Macs the details better be right. If one thing is wrong, by Mac enthusiast logic, everything is wrong. Even if everything else is spot on. | ||
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| #1 By 3 (86.1.33.75) at 4/9/2009 7:52:47 PM |
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God damn this is going to come back and bite MS in the ass pretty soon - what a classic piece of bad PR this is. It may sound like something bitter from a Mac user - but as a user of both PC's and Mac's - how the hell they came up with those costs yet ignored things like Office for Windows, Quicken for Windows - yet added them to the Mac prices? MobileMe for $700+ yeah, but its optional! A blu-Ray drive from sony for $300 when you can get one for the Mac from LG for $110. iLife for $99 - yet find any decent likened software for the PC and you'll be paying a hell of a lot more! Heck they even use a HP pc that even HP don't advertise anymore. They don't do a consumer mac comparison either, just a Mac Pro??? Well I class myself as pretty professional when it comes to computers, but hell not even I use one of them! Memory upgrade here for 4GB cost $50. Applecare - with no comparison to the prices of sending your PC in for repair, the assumption that people will only go for a Apple router which albeit is far better than most others is more expensive - when the one they show for the PC works perfectly fine with the Macs.
Yes we all know Mac's cost more than PCs. But if they really want to actually make these PR stunts work, they need to actually show what the PC does better, or is that starting to be the struggle here? I could go on - classic. At least the press (and not just mac loving press) are laying into this one so easily now. Someone fire the PR guy there and put the focus on what WINDOWS does better - you have 98% of the market, heck even Vista is a decent OS in my mind, or are they too embarrassed to show the actual software anymore these days. |
| #2 By 3 (86.1.33.75) at 4/9/2009 8:16:13 PM |
| Also just noticed the Tax form seems out of date - not just because of the discontinued products but pricing of things like Mobile Me is $250 more than it should be, iLife too - once that kind of thing gets out they'll look even more stupid - can't believe they let those things slip through when they would have still showed them to be expensive anyway. |
| #3 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at 4/9/2009 9:58:11 PM |
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#1 "Mac Pro??? Well I class myself as pretty professional when it comes to computers, but hell not even I use one of them!"
Of course not. They are outrageously overpriced. As are most Apple products. For the price of a lot of Mac's, you can buy 2 PC's. One for Mom/Dad and one for the kids. Thats the ad I want to see. 2 Dell's with 20 inch monitors for the price of the low end iMac. 2 x 530 with a 20" widescreen monitor and one with Office Student Edition for 1250 or the iMac for 1199 (which comes with nothing). This post was edited by NotParkerToo on Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 22:05. |
| #4 By 2332 (71.174.130.10) at 4/10/2009 9:31:09 AM |
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#1 - It is going to come back and bite Microsoft like how things came back to bite Apple when they aired countless misleading ads?
Oh wait... it never bit Apple at all. In fact, they enjoyed big sales increases. "or are they too embarrassed to show the actual software anymore these days. " When was the last Apple ad that showed their software? Last I checked, all they do is bash PCs in their ads. Mac fans are finally getting a taste of their own medicine. I love it. |
| #5 By 3 (86.1.33.75) at 4/10/2009 10:00:39 AM |
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#4
I'm going by the UK here - but thankfully all the Apple adverts here do is show the software and the hardware, no PC bashing as they don't need to As for the MS ads increasing sales - from seeing these online, comparing them to the Apple ads - the difference is that the Apple ones are funny and relevant at the time. Everyone knows Apple products are more expensive - I know that but personally don't care, if I have the money to spend on something that I know from my experience lasts longer I'd rather pay for quality. I know people will come in here and bash Apple like on other forums they will do the same for Microsoft. I don't blame MS - I blame the poor hardware makers like Sony, HP etc for the bad state of Vista laptops - when a Macbook actually runs vista better than 90% of PC laptops, you need to look closer to home and sort that problem out first. This post was edited by Byron_Hinson[AW] on Friday, April 10, 2009 at 10:15. |
| #6 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 4/10/2009 10:04:32 AM |
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The newest laptop ad with the mom and her son was really good.
MS is hammering the heck out of Apple with some very basic and well known realities - these coupled with the dreadful state of Apple security is going to bite down very hard on the company. I've also begun to see business owners with older kids that have Macs begin to gripe very loudly about Apple - as their 'perfect' computers prove to be much less reliable and anything but trouble-free. The resentment seems to be quite high, considering the very real 'Apple Tax' parents pay for Macs. I heard one commercial construction owner that is a new customer remark yesterday: "My kids have Macs and all I get are invoices..." He wasn't happy at all. |
| #7 By 3 (86.1.33.75) at 4/10/2009 10:09:51 AM |
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In fairness though - the Microsoft fans are now saying how great these ads are at bashing Apple are the same ones saying how lame and poor the Apple ones that did the same - pure class!
Also saying these adverts are hammering the heck out of apple for known realities isn't exactly a great thing is it - unless you are calling a consumer dumb, they should already know they are paying more for a product - it is their choice in the end. Thankfully over here in the UK these MS ads haven't run on TV - if they do, they'll get slated. Oh and before anyone comes in a bashes - I don't like the "I'm a mac" ads either - I like sensible advertising that show products, working products. This post was edited by Byron_Hinson[AW] on Friday, April 10, 2009 at 10:17. |
| #8 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 4/10/2009 10:17:26 AM |
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Byron - "Bashing?" Really?
The ads aren't "bashing" Apple/Mac - they actually compliment them and acknowledge some of their key strengths and they also point out some key limitations. (Apple's lack of choice, higher costs, and constraints - as opposed to Windows PCs' 'something great for every need and every budget'). ...as opposed to Apple's ads that really did "bash" - inaccurately and unfairly, Microsoft's ads have been fair, and honest in the presentation of facts well known in the market and well reflected in share numbers. I would describe Apple's ads as funny, humorous and entertaining. I'd also describe them as cheap, factually flawed and stinking of unjustified elitist bovine scat. |
| #9 By 3 (86.1.33.75) at 4/10/2009 10:22:24 AM |
| "I'd also describe them as cheap, factually flawed and stinking of unjustified elitist bovine scat." isn't that the same as the Apple Tax listing they have posted on the MS blog site? Factually flawed, full of bull etc though. So kettle calling pot black comes to mind. |
| #10 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 4/10/2009 11:15:45 AM |
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Byron... hardly... when the 'tax' form was completed it was accurate at that time - that sort of thing is too easy to check and reflected published pricing and specifications. It isn't nearly the same as the sanrk-fest Apple ran for years.
Apple, the Mac and OS X are full of wide open holes - like all software - BUT... unlike Windows Vista, Apple's OS X has done little to mitigate them with layers of security and what they have done has been very poorly implemented - their implementation of ASLR (one can hardly call it that), is extremely poor. If they don't correct that is a huge way with Snow Leopard, they are in real trouble. Microsoft is grinding Apple into powder... to borrow from my favorite Prime Minister's selection of words (Churchill). Apple has poked way too many people in the eye and they're going to pay the price for it. |
| #11 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at 4/10/2009 11:20:10 AM |
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Byron, the tax is easy for anyone to determine. On some configurations it is 1200-1500$ on others it is lower. And sometimes it depends on where in the product cycle the machines are and who is having a sale on what.
But the tax is there. It takes 2 minutes to find out what it is. Remember, 2 perfectly good Dell's with Office for the price of 1 iMac. Or an i7 based quad-core for half the price of a similar Mac Pro. |
| #12 By 3 (86.1.33.75) at 4/10/2009 11:48:01 AM |
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#11
I dont think anyone with half a brain was saying there isn't "Tax" there - i think what they were saying is where is the Anti-Virus yearly subscriptions for the PC side, the fact that the iLife set is there without a 30 day trial unlike the software on the PC side, etc etc - everyone knows it is there but the comparison Tax form even had false pricing models too. Please don't get me started on Dell - my parents bought a configured Laptop from them 6 months ago - got it for my dad who wanted to do freelance work now he retired, it went back within 3 days due to faults, then they never came to collect it, then they argued we never phoned up to request a return. Thank god his Toshiba was better. Dell deserve to go out of business for their poor service in my view even though they won't. I'm sure lloyds company offers fantastic service and companies like that deserve the PC business and not Dell. "As an analogy, I don't buy the cheapest automobile I can find. I buy the better car - one that will require less maintenance, be more reliable and have greater value at trade in." This post was edited by Byron_Hinson[AW] on Friday, April 10, 2009 at 12:02. |
| #13 By 3 (86.1.33.75) at 4/10/2009 11:49:00 AM |
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#10
Your views of the OS X are fine for yourself - but even the guy who created the Apple Tax piece says the user experience is better on the Mac hehe. Yet he states that will change when Windows 7 comes out - if this is the case - why have they not added the upgrade pricing for Windows 7 to the Microsoft Tax side ;o) Which will be around $400 at least for a family pack compared to $200 for Snow Leopard ;o) Also if it was accurate at the time, why are the pricings still wrong, again where is AV software, where is the products that are the equivalent software for decent photo and video editing on the PC - of course they wouldn't add those for a real life comparison. This post was edited by Byron_Hinson[AW] on Friday, April 10, 2009 at 11:58. |
| #14 By 23275 (172.16.10.31) at 4/10/2009 1:49:41 PM |
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you're kidding, right, Byron? Seriously, you haven't looked at MS ICE, or Live Photo Gallery, or Writer, or Moviemaker in Vista? Each of these is better than the iSeries of apps - I know... there are those that will scoff at Moviemaker - their comments being based upon XP, or Me!
Try the new products and similarly, WLOC for Windows is 8 bucks a machine - <20 dollars for three machines and soon, free AV, alongside other free AV SW, will be out there. I think you are reaching with this one - heck, even teh most excellent web editing/dev tool, Sharepoint Designer is free for Windows users and it smokes the simple web dev tools in OS X. |
| #15 By 3 (86.1.33.75) at 4/10/2009 2:04:01 PM |
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I've tried them of course - they don't have as deep features as iMovie, iPhoto is so easy to manage compared to Live Photo Gallery - something that didn't ship with vista did it? It shipped with Windows Photo Gallery which in my view compared to iPhoto is very poor and is something I'd never use on a PC. When I only use a PC I even choose to pay for lightroom for photography stuff as its so much better. Again Writer doesn't ship with Vista - and free products like that are available on the Mac. The comparison piece is about Windows Vista against Mac, not Windows freeware software vs Mac freeware software.
Moviemaker is ok - but as an advanced editing program it can't hold a torch to iMovie especially with HD editing. I agree with Sharepoint designer - but I don't believe that was part of anything related to this topic either. I could post loads of free Mac tools that do fantastically better jobs than some Windows ones, like I can post free Windows software that does things better than some Mac apps. Again to me the comment about iLife seems to me to come from someone who hasn't or doesn't use it much which is fine - but check the reviews of it from unbias reviewers and you'll see the same comments I make. I really wish they would release a decent version of it on the PC so others can see just how good it is. WLOC is a decent program and 8 bucks is great - the things is it wasn't mentioned as a yearly cost - thats still $50 per machine - so looking at around $150 across the set of machines those fake tax pieces stated. Soon for free AV isn't enough - you yourself stated this Tax form thing was based on past stuff - so it costs, yet wasn't added. It's fine - its a Microsoft paid piece of PR, It's just funny to most of us who read it without any bias. I know anything I say about a Mac or the software will get run down by you and I can understand that, thankfully I can see things from both sides and see the good and bad in both. It's just to me these ads from both sides are sad - they can do so much better if they show what people actually want to use, Apple have done it right with their iPhone adverts - Microsoft should copy those kind of ads to actually get points across. I'm done commenting on this topic now though as I don't want to argue with friends over something so pathetic as Mac vs Windows comparisons, just like what you like. This post was edited by Byron_Hinson[AW] on Friday, April 10, 2009 at 14:21. |
| #16 By 9589 (76.4.22.39) at 4/10/2009 5:02:29 PM |
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Whatever the delta is between a PC and a Mac it isn't enough.
The reason that you buy a computer is to run apps on it. There are as little as 1/1000 of the apps available on a Mac as there are available on a PC. It comes down to what hobby, job, business, whatever you are into. Its unlikely that you will find the software you want for a Mac. The problem with finding an app in the PC world is that there are usually so many to choose from that it takes some effort to separate the wheat from the chaff. Macs problem - no wheat! |
| #17 By 15406 (72.140.218.146) at 4/11/2009 12:18:24 PM |
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The Register has never been a fan of Apple's and yet they can still smell the manure:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/11/microsoft_flames_macs/ |
| #18 By 28801 (71.58.225.185) at 4/12/2009 8:45:56 AM |
| Come on Latch. It's not like they've been a staunch supporter of Microsoft these many years. |
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