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Too Zune to pass judgment: a review of the Zune Marketplace | |
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| Time: 12:10 EST/17:10 GMT | News Source: Ars Technica | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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When Microsoft announced that its flagship digital media player had posted a stunning 54 percent year-over-year drop in holiday revenue, Zune-bashing officially became an Olympic sport. But, unlike us, most of the bashers haven't spent any real time with Zune Marketplace, Microsoft's online answer to iTunes Store. | ||
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| #1 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 1/29/2009 12:21:37 PM |
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good read.
They miss two things that are very important: 1) The Zune pass, as good as it seems, is even better as it allows one to have three separate devices and three separate computers at the same time. That's three people, teens, or some mix for one price. 2) They did not showcase mixed view, which has to be the best way to discover new music and media ever devised. It crushes iTunes' not so Genius feature. Mixed View is an option on any artist, album, or title and it finds similar items, or those influenced by the artist. One may keep "Mixing" into title after title endlessly - downloading, sampling and building a massive library on the way. Mixed view is also useful for discovering new content based upon what your friends are doing in the social. Using their shared collections as a starting point, one may find music that they may not have been able to on their own. Our kids love that feature - I love the price and ease of use!!! |
| #2 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 1/29/2009 12:39:46 PM |
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Sheesh... a lot of posters over at ARS are misinformed... badly!
PlaysForSure was not ever abandoned - not at all. It was broadened and transformed into "Certified for Vista" So all those posting about how they access the same over at SanDisk, Nokia, and Creative among others, and looking for compatible music from Napster, Real Rhapsody, Yahoo Music, Wal-Mart and such must now look for the "Certified for Windows Vista" logo, not PlaysForSure. Oh, Microsoft's Zune is also certified for Windows Vista - so use it there, too! People need to read. I mean really read, before they speak, or write. |
| #3 By 2960 (72.196.201.130) at 1/29/2009 1:33:09 PM |
| C'mon, bud. PlaysForSure is dead. Hell, even Microsoft abandoned it... |
| #4 By 23275 (172.16.10.31) at 1/29/2009 5:39:19 PM |
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Actually TL, no they did not. All the devices and all the stores work with it and what it evolved to. One may use any of the devices with any of the listed stores/services, which includes the Zune device.
Please see, http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/playsforsure |
| #5 By 12071 (203.210.68.145) at 1/29/2009 6:23:46 PM |
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#4 You don't actually believe that right? You're just sticking up for Microsoft and that hideous music player that they made that hardly anyone wants.
PlaysForSure is dead, regardless of what fancy marketing spin Microsoft or you or anyone else puts on it. PlaysForSure was a certification for media, 'Certified for Windows Vista' is a much more broad certification that whilst may include what PlaysForSure encompassed - PlaysForSure wasn't limited to Windows Vista. So whilst they may very well have included PlaysForSure within the broader certification, what it originally stood for and the concept of PlaysForSure is dead... and ThatsForSure! |
| #6 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 1/29/2009 9:11:56 PM |
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#5, Yes, I do believe it.
Zune is a great PMP. The software is great and it is very economical. I can support three separate devices and three separate computers for one affordable fee - and I can keep ten titles amonth - reducing the sub cost to 4.99 USD a month. It makes sense. Personally, I load up tech media of various types and play it in one of our trucks on longer drives between clients. Regardless of what you say, the stores and devices all work well together under the Certified for Vista program. Yes, it is broader, and that also makes sense. |
| #7 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 1/30/2009 8:06:12 AM |
| #5: Ketchum sticking up for MS? Now there's something you don't see every day. |
| #8 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 1/30/2009 8:23:41 AM |
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The Zune crew needs to take a page from the XBOX play book. The XBOX folks have taken a poorly made product and made it into a serious player in the console wars. MS may lose money on the consoles (hard to believe based on the cheap feel this thing has) but their games are being purchased.
Or they could just try to make a better product than Apple both functionally and aesthetically. |
| #9 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 1/30/2009 9:17:55 AM |
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#8: Or they could just try to make a better product than Apple both functionally and aesthetically.
Yeah, that approach has worked so well for them in the past. |
| #10 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 1/30/2009 10:46:16 AM |
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No... they were just late... obviously they tried the same model of supporting partners, OEM's and ISV's with tools and platforms and it did not work out. Then they tried a more comprehensive platform, did well, but it was late to that evolved market. Ok, fine. It does not mean that the Zune hardware, or its software are "bad" - they're just late and the market has changed. So now they'll do both, but differently and the way things are shaping up, Ballmer is right to say: "I like where we are." he has good reason to feel that way. They'll continue to push and be competitive. I mean, you needn't have an account, or a Zune to try the software - give it a look - it is good stuff.
Latch, you're funny... so I find value in a product that works for my family and that is wrong. Liberals are nuts that way... one may have any opinion, or any position... just so long as it is exactly like there own. Far too many Apple/Mac fans are the same way... where "different" is defined by tastes which at least outwardly, must be exactly the same... now that's inclusive, open and progressive for you... but an ecosystem, imperfect as it is, that includes millions of profesionals, businesses, OEM's, ISV's and all of us... now that is bad? Evil? Inferior? Ok... but I want no part of any world Latch seems to suggest is "better" |
| #11 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 1/30/2009 11:35:04 AM |
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#10: Liberals are nuts that way... one may have any opinion, or any position... just so long as it is exactly like there own.
I thought it was the Socialists that were the bane of Microsoft's existence. Now it's the Liberals? Wow, I never imagined the world of IT and politics would converge so much. Ok... but I want no part of any world Latch seems to suggest is "better" Yes, I'm quite sure that a world where MS didn't control practically everything IT-related would be a living hell for you. |
| #12 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 1/30/2009 11:52:05 AM |
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#11, Actually for me, Microsoft was quite late to the IT game. The old IT world was in many ways far better, but that had nothing to do with Microsoft, or Apple, but an absense of of nonsense. Politics touches everything and that too is a big part of the problem in many areas of science - computing and all others. Socialism is the bane of mankind - the idea that any one, or group of men may decide what fair distribution "is" destroys the incentive to achieve greatness and pursue excellence.
I remember very well when Microsoft's reps came into the agencies - it was not pretty for them, but I did admire their passion and willingness to fail utterly and come back and try again. Back then we wrote our own systems software and built our own boards and the computers they went into. It was exciting, but very slow progress was made and efforts were applied to very specific goals. "Information Systems" as we know them today, did not exist in machine form, but certainly did within the procedures we developed and the methods applied - and everyone I worked with was a "Classic Liberal" - especially me. What we call liberal today isn't the same - progressives, like they were in the days of Wilson, are closer to what that is. |
| #13 By 37 (192.251.125.85) at 1/30/2009 12:20:59 PM |
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"MS may lose money on the consoles"
MS is making money on each 360. |
| #14 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 1/30/2009 12:45:59 PM |
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#12: I wouldn't say that politics is a "big problem" in IT. I wouldn't even say it's a problem, per se. In fact, the only time in recent history I can remember a convergence of IT and politics is Microsoft's antitrust problems, and now Intel too. Don't fall into the trap of assuming that every setback your horse suffers must be due to political interference.
#13: They aren't taking a $100 loss per unit anymore? Considering the billion dollar write-down they took on the 360's RRoD QA problem, they will never be profitable unless MS makes them for the next 1,000 years. |
| #15 By 3 (86.1.44.213) at 1/30/2009 1:17:51 PM |
| As much as I think Zune is a complete waste of resources when other companies are making far better players and software. Yeah Microsoft do kind of make a profit on the 360's now - still got a long way to go to make the billion mess up they created with RRoD though. |
| #16 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 1/31/2009 11:26:03 AM |
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Byron, what is your direct experience with Zune Gen II's III's running 3.01 (50) firmware?
Same queston opposite the latest Zune software and marketplace? Do you mean iTunes is a better piece of software on Windows based computers? What hardware and software is: "far better" ? |
| #17 By 3 (86.1.44.213) at 1/31/2009 1:55:18 PM |
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Personally no problems using iTunes on Windows, though I tend to only use it on my mac computers. I find the iTunes store far far better than the Zune marketplace, with more music and easier to find music. Hardware - well I can't see how anyone would find Zune hardware anywhere near as good as that of the iPod touch. Screen quality is better, wireless is better, integration is better, apps are there, gaming is far better on the ipod - compare that to the excuse for games that the Zune has right now makes it look awful, though hopefully that will change.
Zune is ok for what it is if it is just used for music and music only, but thats probably the reason it doesn't sell - thats pretty much all it is good for and in the end the public want it for more, it doesn't generate coolness, doesn't have the apps, doesn't have the useabilty and just doesn't have the users. Heck even my misses has had numerous crashes with the Windows Based Zune software - so there are plus and minuses for both there. The only thing the iTunes store lacks is subscriptions - though personally I wouldn't sign up for one as it wouldn't interest me - like I'd guess it hasn't interested many users considering the lack of sales. This post was edited by Byron_Hinson[AW] on Saturday, January 31, 2009 at 13:57. |
| #18 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 1/31/2009 6:13:34 PM |
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Whoa... so we're comparing the Zune to the iPhone and iPod Touch?
Is that appropriate/applicable opposite both short and long term costs? I do think you have a good point, but not as far as direct device comparisons are concerned... as I said above, the problem for MS/Zune is that they were late and entered a saturated market. In that market and against a base of users moving from classic iPods to iPhone and iPod Touch, most people looking at getting a PMP like the Zune, or Ipod Classic, are getting an iPhone, or iPod Touch instead - since they have done that and have collections and ties to that existing ecosystem, they are much more likely to get an iPod Nano over any other device. That is what I meant by MS being "late" - that said, that takes nothing away from how MS can, with the Zune software and a great business model of their own, eat deeply into that saturated market, or expand it even further and via software and services ported to non-MS Zune hardware. Which is exactly what I suspect they will do, and onto a base of fewer, but more refined products from the carriers. As late as they may be, this matter is far from over and I rather like where MS is over any others -the ecosystem is after all, so much larger and if convergence is for real this time, MS is in a great position. |
| #19 By 3 (86.1.44.213) at 2/1/2009 5:32:03 AM |
| I understand what you are saying but isn't MS's plan to put Zune on most Windows Mobiles - I can't see this helping them out to be honest. I don't know many consumers or general buyers of phones who would chose a Win Mob over iphone, nokia etc - and they are the users they need to aim Zune software at, not business users. |
| #20 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at 2/1/2009 11:46:37 AM |
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#19, I didn't say it would work overnight - and hey.... us business people like media, too.
I'm no fan of music of any kind, but the Zune SW is not restricted to that and I don't use it for that, but I can tell you.... even the oldest of my buddies ALL use a PMP of some kind and many were iPod users. Most now use Zune's. Similarly, many have tried iPhone and at first, they liked it... but after a few days... they either smashed them, or dropped them, or sold them... Like me, they need to do things on their phones without looking and they also need to use the phone all day. iPhone proved to be too fragile and harder to use on the fly - ya can't feel it. iPhone's battery life is not really great - nor is any similar device. That will change, but until it does, it can frustrate people quickly. Years ago I wrote an article about how people would drop the iPhone (physically) - well, they do. We all drop our phones. http://blog.libertech.net/blogs/lketchum/archive/2007/06/25/people-will-drop-the-iphone.aspx I am a bit stunned by young people today... not surprised, but candidly, stunned. Presently, there is a disproportionate share of voice being exercised on the web and it does not reflect life on the ground for a very large number of people - people, regardless of age, still make use of digital tools. It seems that the 25-40 crowd really likes the smell of their own wind a bit too much. Remember, only a tiny fraction of the wonderful people on this earth have a computer - but nearly 50% of them have a phone... Yet! Yet! a tiny minority of people in "Gen Y" are suggesting that companies like Microsoft and Dell should stay out of this market and cede it to Apple? Are you kidding me? You're kidding, right? Ya have ta be? You think guys like Michael Dell and Steve Ballmer are going to ignore the markets and potential? Because they are a bit older? Are you daft? They will persist as they always have and they will win, or they will die trying. Remember, many of us can personally recall much tougher challenges - starvation, depression, global war, recessions, shortages, disease, cold war, corruption, racism - we beat every one of them and we never quit! And we shared what we learned and what we had happily. If I were Apple, I would remember this and embrace their own history, or they'll be gone faster than they rose the second time around. |
| #21 By 3 (86.1.44.213) at 2/1/2009 12:55:57 PM |
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I'm not disagreeing with you on many things - but stating that the iphone is bad because if you drop it, it can break seems silly to me - thats no different with any phone, I've dropped my iphone once and it has worked fine. I dropped a samsung and it broke (not a Win Mob mind you) they all break, my friend broke his latest touch HD phone with one drop - but I wouldn't blame the phone, I'd blame clumsiness. And anyone who drops one after a few days really is just clumsy - and that goes for any phone. If like me they cherish new gadgets they'd be a damn sight more careful than that as it isn't anymore slippery than any phone released these days.
I'm also not disagreeing that many older people like music of course they would do - but even those buyers are getting ipods its just a fact of life. The Zune when it first came out looked like it might be good competition to the ipod - but in the end it never got upgraded firmware wise like they stated it would do with loads of new features, it took over a year or so before it had a decent firmware update and most sensible users who had listened to the PR noise from the Zune "Crew" dumped it because they didn't keep their word. They shouldn't stay out of the market no - Apple need competition - just like Microsoft did to make IE a decent browser over the last few years. But if they are going to do that, they need to be actual competition - not what they are now, the hardware doesn't appeal - the software doesn't appeal and the awful advertising campaign they started with needs to be dumped, it was truly awful, trying to ooze cool when there was none, I don't see anyone sharing music with the Zune like they made out it would do, its hard enough finding anyone around with one. My mum even now has a ipod touch over the classic and over the zune I gave her, she found it easier to use and even likes the games they have on the App store - if that doesn't break the age comment barrier I don't know what will. |
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