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Microsoft: Mac buyers pay Apple tax | |
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| Time: 00:20 EST/05:20 GMT | News Source: CNET | Posted By: Kenneth van Surksum | ||
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Apple may offer lower-priced machines on Tuesday, but one top Microsoft official said Monday that Mac buyers will still be paying an "Apple tax."
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| #1 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 10/15/2008 8:54:41 AM |
| MS talking about the Apple Tax??? Please. Strange how they don't comment on the dearth of PCs without Windows preloaded, and how if you don't want Windows then it's almost impossible to get a refund. |
| #2 By 92283 (142.32.208.232) at 10/15/2008 11:11:41 AM |
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Does Apple sell PC's without OS X installed? Dell sells PC's without Windows.
Of source, most of the Dell's probably get returned. |
| #3 By 2960 (70.177.180.170) at 10/15/2008 11:51:44 AM |
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This is almost the dumbest thing I've ever seen from Microsoft. Do they think we are all this stupid?
Tax? How about the Windows Tax. $400 for Vista Ultimate, and they didn't even provide all the features we paid the extra $100 for... Hysterical Does Microsoft have an official "Open Mouth, Insert Foot" course all executives are required to attend? TL |
| #4 By 2960 (70.177.180.170) at 10/15/2008 11:53:27 AM |
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I've come to the conclusion that Microsoft is SO heavily geared towards corporate customers that it simply has no idea how to communicate with the average non-corporate user.
They need to hire Steve Jobs :) TL |
| #5 By 92283 (142.32.208.232) at 10/15/2008 12:38:01 PM |
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#3 Ed Bott estimates Ultimate was only 190$ with a new PC.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=564#more-564 And Home Basic was only $20. And OEM Ultimate is only $169 at NewEgg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116213 |
| #6 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 10/15/2008 1:20:54 PM |
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#2: No, Apple doesn't sell PCs without OSX, and that's kind of the whole point behind there being no Apple Tax. People who buy Apple hardware are buying the whole Apple experience. People who buy PCs may not necessarily want Windows (or a particular flavour of Windows). And, yes, Dell does sell PCs without Windows, if you can find them on their website.
#3,4: Welcome to The Big Lie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie) #5: Ed "Micro" Bott estimates that, does he? Well, that's good enough for me. Nice to know that I can buy a decent quad system for $500 and VUE is *only* $190 on top of that. What value. |
| #7 By 92283 (142.32.208.232) at 10/15/2008 1:55:08 PM |
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LyinLatch, The Apple Tax is hundreds of dollars if you compare Apple hardware to generic PC hardware. The Apple "experience" is the big extra hole in your wallet.
LyinLatch: "yes, Dell does sell PCs without Windows". Yes. They do. "Nice to know that I can buy a decent quad system for $500 and VUE is *only* $190 on top of that. What value." I believe Dell charges 120$ to upgrade a 499$ quad core box with Vista Home Premium to Ultimate. Not 190$. http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dddodg4&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=features~desktops_great_deals Most home users will find Home Premium to be just great. |
| #8 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 10/15/2008 2:36:28 PM |
| #7: The fact that Apple hardware is more expensive is no more a tax than the local clone shop that's more expensive than Dell. Is that a Clone Tax? I suspect that, as usual, you don't really understand what this thread is about. Either that or you're being deliberately obtuse to make some anti-Apple point that nobody cares about but you. |
| #9 By 92283 (142.32.208.232) at 10/15/2008 3:01:00 PM |
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#8 The issue is that the Apple Tax on hardware is huge. Which is on topic and accurate.
There is also an Apple Tax on the OS ... 129$ every year or so to stay current. |
| #10 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 10/15/2008 3:10:56 PM |
| #8: Apple uses the same parts as everyone else - just wrapped in a pretty box. I submit that you can build an Apple equivalent for half the price. I briefly considered buying an Apple until I looked more closely at the specs. Apple users are paying for a name. |
| #11 By 92283 (142.32.208.232) at 10/15/2008 3:55:55 PM |
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"the number crunchers at NPD have recently revealed year-on-year pricing data that shows the average price for an Apple laptop in 2008 is around $1,515 USD, while the average price for an Apple desktop system is $1,543 USD.
Running those prices beside comparably-equipped Windows laptop and desktop computers for 2008 returns price points of around $700 USD and $550 USD respectively, which are massive reductions that leave Apple’s offerings looking a little too hot to handle." http://www.thetechherald.com/article.php/200832/1690/Apple-prices-now-twice-that-of-comparable-PC-systems This post was edited by NotParkerToo on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 15:56. |
| #12 By 15406 (99.224.104.110) at 10/15/2008 6:31:55 PM |
| All: The premium you pay to Apple for their gear is for the engineering and the tightly-controlled environment. To some, this is desirable. To many including myself, it's not. Economy of scale automatically causes their hardware to be more expensive as they're not moving anywhere near the total worldwide shipment of brand-name & clone PC systems. At any rate, MS is twisting this (as usual). What they mean to say is that Apple is simply more expensive. There is no Apple tax in the same sense as the infamous Microsoft Tax. In the MS case, you're being forced to pay for something you might not want and have little recourse to get reimbursed for the cost. In the Apple case, you're just paying a premium price for what you want from them. Completely different. Leave it to MS to try and muddy the waters. |
| #13 By 92283 (142.32.208.232) at 10/15/2008 6:41:04 PM |
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LyinLatch always thinks black is white and white is black.
The Apple Tax exists. The Microsoft tax is a figment of his derangement. |
| #14 By 28801 (71.58.225.185) at 10/15/2008 7:10:24 PM |
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"All: The premium you pay to Apple for their gear"
As already stated, a shiny plastic case is not worth double the price. Maybe if they reduced their trash Vista campaign, they could reduce the price of their "tightly-controlled environment". |
| #15 By 28801 (71.58.225.185) at 10/15/2008 7:15:14 PM |
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MAC Pro desktop configured as closely as possible to a machine I just built is $3,549.00.
The one I just built - around $1600 Priceless! |
| #16 By 15406 (99.224.104.110) at 10/15/2008 10:07:32 PM |
| #14: I agree that heir machines aren't worth the money. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that there is no such thing as an Apple Tax. |
| #17 By 92283 (70.66.78.103) at 10/16/2008 11:19:50 AM |
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tax
"a burdensome charge, obligation, duty, or demand." Yup. Apple Tax. |
| #18 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 10/16/2008 11:50:53 AM |
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#17: Well, ok then. By your awesome logic, any charge for anything is a tax. So yes, the Apple tax exists, as does the MS tax, the IBM tax, the Sun tax, the Wal-Mart tax, the Exxon tax, the Boeing tax, the Arby's tax etc etc.
I'm constantly amazed at how silly you are willing to appear to be, just to insist you're right about something. |
| #19 By 92283 (70.66.78.103) at 10/16/2008 12:10:50 PM |
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"a burdensome charge ... "
Learn to read LyinLatch. |
| #20 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 10/16/2008 12:50:13 PM |
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#19: I can read just fine. Please define burdensome with specificity. If I have no money, charging one cent is a burden. BY that logic, how much money do oyu have ot have before buying Apple is no longer a burden? And besides, you avoided the mst common definition of 'tax' just to suit your position. How about this one:
"a sum of money demanded by a government for its support or for specific facilities or services, levied upon incomes, property, sales, etc." Sub in 'Microsoft' for 'government' and you have the Microsoft Tax defined. It doesn't work the same when you sub in Apple. Why can't you just admit there is no Apple tax? Why am I continuing to argue with a twit like you? |
| #21 By 23275 (71.91.9.16) at 10/16/2008 12:54:14 PM |
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I have to go with Apple on this one - at least in part. They sell hardware as part of a service, which for many people is worth at least as much as the machine is (or more). Apple Care and similar warranties aside, I am speaking to how systems are prepared, delivered and cared for in the context of the user.
On a larger scale, Apple does that better than PC OEM's and in many cases, better than boutique systems builders. I would not characterize what they charge as a tax, or even as too high a price. Buyers are smart. They know products and what their relative value is. I depend upon they same kind of customer - someone who values "value" and real care and craftsmanship above aggregate component cost. Is there a measure of fluff and a bit of smoke in Apple's model? Sure there is, but over all, they are delivering a better experience for customers in their market. As they try and expand within that market, or reach new market segments is where they face challenges. I think they can and I welcome the competition - it has made us better - even if it has only caused us to communicate our own value better. Technical specs and considerations aside, I think there is a great deal to admire about Apple. One last thing and Apple owes the space this, they need to recognize the very real benefit they have taken advantage of in the way of downward pricing pressures placed on component parts courtesy of the largely WinTel ecossystem. It is unfortunate that they appear not to respect that. |
| #22 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 10/16/2008 1:45:27 PM |
| #21: Well said. |
| #23 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 10/16/2008 2:18:03 PM |
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"someone who values "value" and real care and craftsmanship above aggregate component cost. "
LLoyd, I've read the first two parts of your "building the perfect PC" series, and I based some of my own decisions for my recent build on those articles. The configuration in your article is less than half the price than a similarly configured Apple - as is the machine I built. So I don't get your "Value" argument. I get the "Care" aspect in that any mac user can get help in an Apple store, but craftsmanship? Any one can buy the same parts that go into an Apple, we just lack the candy coating to dip it in. The bottom line is that no one here would buy a Mac for themselves because we understand the ridiculous markup of these components and the "true" lack of value. This post was edited by rxcall on Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 14:19. |
| #24 By 92283 (70.66.78.103) at 10/16/2008 3:33:18 PM |
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#20 Microsoft isn't a government LyinLatch. Neither is Apple. Therefore the definition I used is the correct one. Try to avoid being a total moron for once.
1) People can buy PC's with out Windows from Dell or the local clone maker. 2) If they do get Windows on it, they can pay a whole 20$ for Vista Basic. 20$ of out of 500$ is not burdensome. It is about 4%. 3) People cannot buy Apple PC's without OS X. 4) The burdensome Apple Tax is close to 100%. 100% is a burden. 4% is not. #21 The Apple tax exists. Just because people volunteer to pay does not make it non-existant At least the moron LyinLatch won't claim you agree with him. Certainly he saw the "at least in part" weasel words. This post was edited by NotParkerToo on Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 16:46. |
| #25 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 10/16/2008 3:44:40 PM |
| #24: Impudent wretch! Even your patron, St. Ketchum of Redmond, disagrees with you. |
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