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Microsoft execs saw problems with early Vista | |
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| Time: 00:12 EST/05:12 GMT | News Source: WinBeta | Posted By: Kenneth van Surksum | ||
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Even some of Microsoft Corp.'s top officials struggled to make Windows Vista work smoothly when it was released, according to internal e-mails released Wednesday. | ||
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| #1 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 2/28/2008 8:41:19 AM |
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Yes, Vista could have used a few more months of polish, but it had to be RC1ed by early September so that Valentine could leave MS and collect his signing bonus from Amazon. And MS went along with this. It makes no sense, but I'm sure it had something to do with innovation, serving consumers better or bringing choice to the marketplace. This post was edited by Latch on Thursday, February 28, 2008 at 13:59. |
| #2 By 89249 (64.207.240.90) at 2/28/2008 8:45:02 AM |
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Obviously no other software company has every released a new version of its product with any known problems. Only the money hungry Microsoft and its evil execs could ever dare to do such a fiendish thing.
L2RealWorld |
| #3 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 2/28/2008 8:59:51 AM |
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I really love the usual response of the Microsoft fanboy. It usually goes something like 'Other companies do evil thing X, so it is okay for Microsoft to do evil thing X as well.' So I guess Microsoft can go and kill your entire family, and you'd be okay with it, if some other company can be shown to have done it also? This has to be one of the dumbest arguments the fanboy contingent constantly pulls out of their collective back ends.
Edit: Damn typos. This post was edited by MysticSentinel on Thursday, February 28, 2008 at 09:00. |
| #4 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 2/28/2008 9:08:26 AM |
| MrHumpty has fallen off his wall onto the Microsoft side, that's for sure. He's got an explanation/apology for every MS mis-step. It's hilarious to watch him equate Vista being pushed out early due to greed with any software release from any company. And I agree with you that it's unfortunate that the apologist crowd will always try to frame MS in the best possible light, with any rationalization they can dream up. |
| #5 By 29664 (38.116.145.116) at 2/28/2008 9:48:15 AM |
| Off topic but, how do i see older news from this site? Looking for an article from last week and I'll I can see is today's, sometimes yesterday's news. |
| #6 By 89249 (64.207.240.90) at 2/28/2008 9:55:58 AM |
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No I don't see a Microsoft misstep and immediately believe its due to the evil tendancies of a publicly held company.
I know that there was a lot of internal turmoil about Vista. They were chasing deadlines trying to do everything they had set out to do. Is it really anything resembling a surprise that they were worried about releasing an OS that required a significiant portion of the the installed PC base to upgrade their hardware? Is it surprising that actions were taken to ensure the existing pc sales didn't drop to the floor as Vista was on the Horizon. Personally I feel bad for people who went the cheap road when purchasing a PC and I would have preferred that Microsoft have Vista <VersionName> Ready Stickers (Boy can you imagine the confusion that would have caused). But in all honesty, DON'T BUY MICROSOFT. While Latch thinks that Money is the only movitator he forgets that the lack of it is also a very movitating factor. Consumers have forgotten that the fastest way to send a message to a company is through their dollar not their congressman or friendly neighborhood lawyer. And frankly the lawsuit on a legal stance is worthless because, and lets all face it, those computers can run Vista. Just not the version some people want. Do I feel bad for them? Yes. Do I wish Microsoft would have done it better? Yes. Do I think that both Microsoft and the Consumer buying the cheapest PC possible with the logo were movitiated by money? Yes. In the end consumers about to spend $1k or more on a piece of equipment should spend an hour or two doing a little research rather than just looking at a sticker. This applies to everything not just Microsoft's products. |
| #7 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at 2/28/2008 9:55:58 AM |
| #5: As much as I'll get lambasted here for this suggestion, try using Google. I've found ActiveWin articles going back years by using Google. |
| #8 By 3746 (216.16.225.210) at 2/28/2008 10:03:30 AM |
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#4
No piece of software is ever 100 percent complete or without bugs. So who gets to decided when a piece of software is ready to go out the door? It is a tried and true practice in the software industry to get things as good as they can and then let it loose. The early adopters are paying testers to some degree. Part of the fun of being and early adopter is you never know how deep the shite is you are jumping into. If you don't like this kind of hassle then don't put yourself in that situation. The fact that mrhumpty is getting at is that anti-MS fanboys such as yourself go nuts when MS makes the slightest misstep. When it is one of the things you love then you give them a pass. I mean where was all the outrage at the initial OS X releases which were way bigger piles then Vista ever will be. If you are outraged that software gets sent out the door in beta state then apply it evenly. If you don't you just end up being as bad as any other fanboy who can't stop and look at things objectively. This post was edited by kaikara on Thursday, February 28, 2008 at 10:06. |
| #9 By 60455 (68.186.182.236) at 2/28/2008 10:05:33 AM |
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What are the goals here?
Take a look at what my Dad wrote last May. He was dead on, and all he had was access to a limited look at the driver model (the same look all of you had) http://blog.libertech.net/blogs/lketchum/archive/2007/05/25/windows-vista-home-basic-why-gdi-persists.aspx Ironically, he was trying to help people understand Vista and how using Aero actually helps performance. Similarly, he was trying to help people understand how Microsoft was supporting customers by supporting the manufacturers, OEM's and partners as they started (late) to build around the new OS. All of this gets missed, perhaps intentionally, and the discussion falls into using this to justify a judgement that we have a bad Vista and or a bad Microsoft. Why? It's just incredible and especially so to see this kind of behavior among IT Professionals and enthusiasts. What little terds we all have become. If we're not careful, we're going to bring about the dreadful world so many seem to be wishing for. |
| #10 By 29664 (38.116.145.116) at 2/28/2008 10:26:54 AM |
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#7 Thanks
trouble is I don't know what I'm looking for -I saw something neat I wanted to follow up on and now I can't remember what it was. too darn busy I guess :) I was hoping to just browse back through the articles again. I bet there's a way to google for 'old articles' but I have no idea what the syntax would be. I feel like a double idiot. |
| #11 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 2/28/2008 10:32:21 AM |
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Geez, are all you guys being deliberately obtuse???? I'm not railing on how they released buggy code early. That's hardly a problem unique to MS. I'm going off because Valentine prematurely badged Vista as RC1 so he could bail and collect his signing bonus from Amazon. He apparently wasn't allowed to leave MS until he signed off on Vista as RC1. He had to be at Amazon by Sept 11 or he would forfeit 1.7 million. His greed got the better of him and he signed off early to cash the cheque. All of you should have a problem with this as well, as it shows a fundamental problem with their process. But instead, being MS apologists to the core, all you can do is spin this as just another buggy MS release.
#9: The acorn didn't fall far from the tree, did it? This post was edited by Latch on Thursday, February 28, 2008 at 13:59. |
| #12 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 2/28/2008 10:40:20 AM |
| #11: You're such a sapling! |
| #13 By 60455 (68.186.182.236) at 2/28/2008 10:41:57 AM |
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@11, Obtuse? With a head apparently made of bone and a mind as quick as clay, you seem to have missed the part where the decision was made because a) they needed to send a strong signal that they were actually going to ship and b) that despite more work, they could (and did) meet the goals set.
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| #14 By 8556 (12.208.163.138) at 2/28/2008 10:58:08 AM |
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Tritium: You would do well to not judge IT people as a group. The legal issues around ‘Vista Ready” hardware were not caused by IT people.
Also, kindly do not presume that the average Windows user reads any technical missive on operating systems. They just want their PC to work with little effort on their part. I don’t recall Microsoft mentioning Vista Basic in their “the Wow is Now” ad campaign even though the free upgrades from XP Home Vista Ready PC’s were for Vista Basic. This added to consumer confusion as Aero was what MS focused on in the TV ads. At my business we told our customers that the Vista upgrade coupons were for Vista Basic. I doubt this was mentioned to too many retail customers that purchased XP loaded PCs with Vista Ready stickers at big box stores. In their push to commercialize Vista, MS made some business decisions that turned out to be tactical errors that in our litigious society will now cost them some money. No big deal. |
| #15 By 92283 (64.180.201.131) at 2/28/2008 11:09:35 AM |
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Latch,
Valentine left on September 5. Vista RTM'd November 8. You are only out by 63 days and 63 IQ points. http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2006/11/08/windows-vista-releases-to-manufacturing.aspx http://play.tm/wire/click/1160958 This post was edited by NotParkerToo on Thursday, February 28, 2008 at 11:11. |
| #16 By 3746 (216.16.225.210) at 2/28/2008 11:50:18 AM |
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#15
Lets see how Latch spins this. |
| #17 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 2/28/2008 12:04:42 PM |
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No spin. I made a mistake and typed RTM instead of RC1. While I know none of the true believers will, you can read up on it here:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/21/1853257&from=rss |
| #18 By 92283 (64.180.201.131) at 2/28/2008 12:22:33 PM |
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An RC is NOT an RTM.
You are underqualified for coffee fetching, let alone discussing issues concerning software development. What a waste of space you are Latch. |
| #19 By 3746 (216.16.225.210) at 2/28/2008 12:35:40 PM |
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#17
I read what you posted but it doesn't contain any evidence that this is what happened. The only evidence was that he had to be at amazon by September 11 06 but not that he signed off on RC1 early in order to get there. There are many questions that would need to be answered to prove this including whether the release would have stayed on the same schedule if he hadn't of left. Plus, is there any evidence to show that he was the only one in charge of signing off on Betas, RC and RTM's? Also, why would he not have just left when he wanted to. Signing off on the RC doesn't mean that the software development was done by any means. Was it in his employment contract that he couldn't leave until the development was done to a certain point? I am not saying that your wrong. It is certainly plausible but with the lack of evidence just about anything is. In the end the result is just conjecture. |
| #20 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 2/28/2008 12:42:34 PM |
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Thank you again, Captain Obvious. I'm aware of the difference. I mistyped. What did you not understand about me saying I made a mistake? You certainly make enough of them to the point where the vast majority of your posts are edited. One big difference between us is that, when I make a mistake, I can admit it. Unfortunately, I've given you an excuse to completely avoid the issue I brought up and instead, you will nitpick a typo to death to ensure you don't have to actually spin about Brian's bailout.
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| #21 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 2/28/2008 12:46:08 PM |
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#19: I agree that all the dots aren't connected and there is lots of supposition, but to me it doesn't pass the smell test. Unless Valentine comes out and admits it, which is very unlikely, there will likely never be a smoking gun unless some emails get found during discovery in a future court case.
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| #22 By 89249 (64.207.240.90) at 2/28/2008 1:18:59 PM |
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#14 Couldn't agree more. Though I wonder what extra confusion would have been created if there were coupons & stickers for all versions. Would it have been better... tbh I don't know since coupons and stickers were out before the public or retailers really understood the differences between the versions.
In the end it was a mixture of alot of things that caused the outcome. Manfacturers being late to the game which could have been caused by MS not providing spec's early enough before Alphas/Betas etc. Confusion was going to occurr in any case imo. I still don't believe that legal action regarding the stickers is valid. You can put vista on those machines just not the version you may want. Caused a tiny bit of damage to the consumer and to MS but nothing overly measurable. |
| #23 By 92283 (64.180.201.131) at 2/28/2008 1:33:42 PM |
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A typo? You used RTM 3 different times in 2 different posts.
More like a deliberate lie. |
| #24 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 2/28/2008 1:58:41 PM |
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#23: Yes, and once again I'll say I meant to use RC1. Is there some special way I need to say this to get you to understand? Are you are being stupid on purpose so you can continue to avoid having to make any meaningful comment and instead you keep hammering on RTM vs RC1 just like I predicted you would? Actually, your brain probably isn't large enough to understand, so I'll fix it for you.
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| #25 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 2/28/2008 2:10:21 PM |
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Now that the emails are coming out, it's clear that even high-level execs knew Vista was ass. Here is one of my favourite quotes:
"Massive change in the underpinnings for video and audio really led to a poor experience at RTM, especially with respect to Windows Media Center." - Steven Sinofsky Yet we had Master Apologist Ketchum telling us for months (until he ran away) that Vista was perfect and anyone with a complaint was an idiot or part of the world-wide media anti-MS conspiracy. The truth always comes out in the end. |
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