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Microsoft threatens its Most Valuable Professional | |
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| Time: 01:07 EST/06:07 GMT | News Source: The Register | Posted By: Byron Hinson | ||
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What's the best way to attract a pile of threatening lawyers' letters from Microsoft? Sell pirate copies of Windows? Write a DRM-busting program? Londoner Jamie Cansdale has just discovered a new approach. He had the temerity to make Redmond's software better. As a hobby, Cansdale developed an add-on for Microsoft Visual Studio. TestDriven.NET allows unit test suites to be run directly from within the Microsoft IDE. Cansdale gave away this gadget on his website, and initially received the praises of Microsoft. In fact, Microsoft was so pleased with him, it gave him a Most Valuable Professionals (MVP) award, which it says it gives to "exceptional technical community leaders from around the world who voluntarily share their high quality, real world expertise with others". | ||
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| #1 By 3 (86.1.34.106) at 6/6/2007 1:10:04 AM |
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Sounds familiar, do something MS don't like, disagree with an exec who speaks to people on the MVP program etc and you end up getting chucked off of it...so much for awarding good word and spreading word of Microsoft products/giving support.
Same thing happened to me a few years back and I have to say I'd never ever be an MVP again even if offered it, especially seeing that the same people are running it who only respond to you when they want something out of you. Now Jamie has actually been told what he had actually violated (thanks to a lawyer letter 2 years later after asking what he had actually done wrong) he should just remove it and carry on his great work and show that Microsoft Exec exactly how a restrained and nice guy he is instead of the jerk Weber comes across like This post was edited by Byron_Hinson[AW] on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 at 01:22. |
| #2 By 80128 (75.18.131.132) at 6/6/2007 1:34:09 AM |
| I've been working with Microsoft for 11 years and the same stuff has happened to me several times. Unfortunately, our business relies heavily on Microsoft so we usually just sit back and take the threats, etc. For us being such a small company, Microsoft repeatedly steals from us and continually reminds us that we are but one of many developers, etc. It's good to see a little slap to the face like this to MS. I give the guy props for going public with this - I think it's entirely warranted and probably his best option given the exchange of emails. |
| #3 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 6/6/2007 7:52:38 AM |
| Aren't monopolies a great thing? Well, they are for the monopolist. For the rest of us, not so great. Where else do you get to threaten your customers, suppliers and partners without repercussions? |
| #4 By 32132 (142.32.208.234) at 6/6/2007 10:51:10 AM |
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#3 Why is when your employers -- the Free Software Foundation -- try and put Novell and Tivo out of business by rewriting the GPL you claim they are heroes, but when Microsoft asks politely that someone abide by the license agreement they got with free software, they are villains? Especially when nothing is stopping the programmer from selling his work to use with all the other versions of Visual Basic etc which are still actually pretty cheap?
As Microsoft said in an email, Jamie is just being a hypocrite since he has 3 version of his software at different prices: " What makes this especially puzzling is that you are undermining the economic model that you rely on for your own products. Nearly all software vendors offer limited versions of their products for nominal or no cost, often as a marketing or entry-level tool. More sophisticated or feature-rich versions of the same software are then supplied at a higher price. We do this with Visual Studio Express (our free products) and Visual Studio Standard and above (our commercial products). You use this model for your own products, the "Personal," Professional" and "Enterprise" versions of TestDriven.NET. Your actions subvert the model that we all rely on. " http://groups.google.com/group/TestDrivenUsers/msg/67faa6e6edb60647 This post was edited by NotParker on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 at 10:52. |
| #5 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 6/6/2007 12:01:34 PM |
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#4, Because the personalities are younger in many cases and they don't understand. or they have signed the backsides of more checks than the front sides. That's not being critical at all - it just speaks to how things are and how, when people are younger, they don't yet have the experiences that might help them see many perspectives at the same time.
Also, business is about advantage and balance. Growing a business is really hard and despite all that is written and spoken, it is much more an art than it is a science and it takes a long time to learn what works - right about that time, things change - the rules, the people, the markets, etc... It is rarely fair and rarer that business seems "just" and in most cases, business works when one party loses some advantage. The advantage here moves around when Microsoft, as it leverages its MVP program commercially, can't allow its members to do the same - at least not to the extent represented in the case of this article. In my opinion, the MVP did not serve his long term interests well at all - also the mark of a younger person [in this context]. Airing this communication publicly, is akin to pissing outside the tent - that, more than any single thing one can do, will tank a business. Business is about trust - not in the way we trust a real friend to help us move [a body, for example], but the kind of trust where each party quietly agrees that each is not going to hurt the other - with that basis, any form of resolution may be found - for example, Microsoft would have probably eagerly agreed to help the MVP market his work within a common framework - something that one can be assured will never happen now. Back to balance and the art. The art, giving meaning to the science, would have allowed the MVP to see options and secure advantages - and trust me [as the kind of guy that doesn't just get friends out of jail - because I'm the kind of friend that would be in jail with you], that I am not speaking from success - on the contrary, I am speaking from lessons that were learned very painfully, from when I was younger and didn't understand things as well. My hope is that Microsoft will exercise greatness - by showing "Magnanimity in Victory" and invite the MVP back to the table and share how they can help these products be marketed within a framework that works to support exactly what NotParker shared [extremely well stated, by the way - very sharp mind you have]. I suspect that Microsoft is "big enough" as a human company to do just that - I trust that, because it is the path to nobility - when one has clear advantage, but they choose not to exercise it and that is a lot more valuable to men than money - at least it should be. |
| #6 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 6/6/2007 12:21:50 PM |
| #5: Is that right? So now the apology is that he just doesn't understand how the world works because he's so young and knows nothing. I saw it as an example of a double standard with MS. MS has a history of trying to subvert agreements by adhering to the letter, but not the spirit, of an agreement by finding and exploiting (how ironic) any loophole found. And all the apologists here would salute them for their legal cunning. This guy did the same thing. MS would like for his app to not integrate with the Express versions, but there is nothing stopping him technically and the EULA is vague in this area. The fact that he offers tiered versions of his app is irrelevant. MS got upset that they got snookered with one of their own tactics and their only response was to slap him down petulantly any way they could. |
| #7 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 6/6/2007 12:33:54 PM |
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#6, No. It is to say that the MVP may not have been able to see all the options and opportunities available and that there were likely better courses of action that could have been taken - certainly not to suggest that the MVP knew "nothing" but that the MVP may not have known as much as will be known after more years and experience.
I have a great deal of trouble understanding your prespective - the dichotomy of interest, as it shifts from very narrowly defined interpretations to the very broad. I know, I'm thick skulled, but I do try and I just don't understand how you think. The socialist utopia you want does not exist - because it starves people and the closest organization that there is to such is the US Army - but that is artificially sustained by virtue of how it is funded [its complete fairness is what I mean - opposite its access to tax dollars]. I mean, what part of, "it's Microsoft's program and Microsoft's software and property" is so hard to get? In that context, they can do what they wish with any of it. I maintain, greater advantage could have been secured by the MVP by working "with" Microsoft. That is not to say the MVP "Knows nothing" - but it is to say that the MVP did not know how to better secure and sustain the advantage that was right there for all to see. |
| #8 By 37 (76.210.78.134) at 6/6/2007 12:47:16 PM |
| I was an MVP for 8 years with Microsoft (I was done in October of last year). The program blows. It's changed to be all about the Kool-Aid. |
| #9 By 3 (86.1.34.106) at 6/6/2007 1:04:02 PM |
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#8 agree there. It used to be about real people who helped users, created sites that helped people etc...it changed a lot when they were planning to dump it a while back and now it's only good for people who really kiss up and don't tell Microsoft when they do something wrong or don't like something they plan to do.
Everyone used to think I was bitter about being dropped from the MVP program years ago, but people never knew all the reasons and all the arguements that went on and that when you criticise someone there or the way things are done, you have no chance of being an MVP the following year! I still get free MSDN another way, and people used to think that was why I was peeved for losing my MVP title, little do people know. I loved helping people, giving opinions on software and how the future could be, some people don't like hearing home truths. </rant> |
| #10 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 6/6/2007 1:16:27 PM |
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#7: I don't think you're thick-skulled, just that you fail to see any perspective other than the pro-MS one. The very fact that there are two or three former MVPs here throwing stones at MS speaks volumes, don't you think? I do not want a socialist utopia, so that strawman can be packed away until the next time you trot it out. This thread has absolutely nothing at all to do with closed vs open, or the MS ecosystem or any of your other tangents. I do agree that MS is free to do with its program as it pleases, just like the kid in the playground has the right to take his ball and go home if things aren't going his way. And I'm just as free to criticize them for their petty behaviour. Like the others here have already said, MS is happy with you so long as you drink deeply from the pitcher.
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| #11 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 6/6/2007 1:35:15 PM |
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Some good points [about the MVP program] are being made here.
But let me try again. I'm not now, nor was I speaking to the merits, or lack thereof, inherent to the MVP program, or any program. I was speaking in a much wider context about business in general and how perhaps, by sharing some of my own failures, younger people might be able to see all available options - that resulting to tac-nukes, may not be the best course of action. It is important to me that "that" message not be lost in a discussion about the MVP program - I have no knowledge of it whatever and I pay [retail] for MSDN, and while we are MS Partners, we don't even try to leverage that in any way - most streets go both ways and I have not seen a one way sign around our shops in years. Microsoft is not the only business that is happy when people work according to their advantage - in fact, most are. Since I don't make a dime in margin/markup on any component I sell [including Microsoft software], there is no pitcher to drink from in that context. And like the others here that have expressed how they like to help people [I sure respect that, by the way], so do I and what I wanted to impart was that there were better ways to go about this and that such ways are not always clear for people when they haven't been beat up as long - if they stick with it, they'll understand how to better see options that will work for them. The sad truth is that being "right" is rarely enough - there is a practical side to being right - many times it's called "good business" [not that business is some wonderful thing that has no down side - it just "is"]. If a person can balance that, and still catch a glimpse of what they love to do each day, then they have a pretty good chance of staying happy. and #10 "Everything" each of us does and says is motivated by what we believe and value - that goes for myself as well as it does you - we have to accept that - I say that, because every time a business acts like a business, you seem to respond with some level of surprise and righteous indignation. How do you expect businesses to act? Like schools, or governments, or charities? Business act in their own business interests - expecting them to act any differently is naive. |
| #12 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 6/6/2007 2:08:27 PM |
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#11: You're equating MS business practices with normal business practices when this has been shown to not be the case. Microsoft is rightly described as a predatory monopolist. It is so large that it can virtually ignore the law, as the fines are factored into the cost of doing business. They can stand up to world governments to further their agenda. Do you know of many businesses that can do that? Their every move has been analyzed for the past 25 years and they have accrued a reputation for unethical, quasi-legal behaviour. That is not "normal business" as most people know it. While you have consistently accused me of supporting some socialist utopia, it appears that you are more of an anarchist, where might makes right, the Golden Rule applies, and the best trick is a dirty trick. My views are not quite so Machiavellian as yours and Microsoft's appear to be.
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| #13 By 32132 (142.32.208.234) at 6/6/2007 2:24:22 PM |
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#12 "Microsoft is rightly described as a predatory monopolist."
Only by a bunch of fanatics. In this case, we are talking about Visual Studio. Microsoft has no monopoly in development tools. |
| #14 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 6/6/2007 2:27:07 PM |
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#12, What? LOLOL - quick, site the significance of Niccolo's life for us please - he was the Dick Morris of his age and he just has to be the single most, out-of-context personality referenced by pseudo intellectuals across all of recorded history. His political advice was rooted in the realities attending the Italian Renaissance. There is little relevance to any ideology based upon anarchism. The Golden Rule, however, now you're onto something that is ageless.
Describing business does not connote one's approval of it, or like for it - it's just as I said, "is" <what it is> and if people can dodge some of the heat-rounds that I let hit me, then the posts have served their purpose. Whether one has read, "The Prince" isn't the issue - whether they understood it in its context is what matters - like "Hearing Hendrix." You may actually have more in common with Niccolo than most - "People hurt others out of fear or hatred." - when you use words that are unkind, are great examples of this. - from "The Prince" - Chap. 7 This post was edited by lketchum on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 at 14:31. |
| #15 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 6/6/2007 2:44:10 PM |
| #14: I was about to ask you if you supported MS' business practices until I remember you're a Republican, which essentially means you believe business concerns trump all and they should pretty much do as they please, unfettered by governments, laws, anything at all. I'll tell you one thing: all the traits that you admire so much in Microsoft would horrify you if you encountered them in a person, as opposed to a corporation. If everyone personally acted like Microsoft, the world would be in a pantload of trouble and anarchy would certainly prevail. |
| #16 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 6/6/2007 3:03:17 PM |
| #15 On that, we both agree; however, I do not ascribe human quality or expectation to objects, or corporations - no more than I would expect them of a stapler, or a potted plant. The reverse is also true. I expect businesses to act like businesses and people to act like people - not because I wish it were not different, but because I assess that present position is more realistic. Now, what I practice, that I can control and there we are much closer in opinions than you might imagine - where we serve and very often, with no expectation of any return at all. |
| #17 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 6/6/2007 3:11:43 PM |
| #17: Corporations are made of people, and people steer the corporation so the human elements cannot be simply ignored. So then, do you support MS ethically vague business practices, and do you employ those same practices in your business? I don't really expect you to answer this, as it would force you to admit that some of MS' business moves are a tad shady or unpleasant -- and you, I and everyone else here knows that will never happen. |
| #18 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 6/6/2007 3:26:07 PM |
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#17, See... that's what I mean...
I own 100% of my company and I am its President and CEO - so what! Exactly how much of the company do you think I can actually control? I mean, really control? Not much at all and any business owner who says otherwise is full of pond water. There are too many influences in play and as good as it gets its to set the "strategic direction" or to intervene under specific circumstances. The rest of the time is spent developing and sustaining relationships. ...and financially... lord of mercy... control? about zip! I tell you what business owners and officers control - "The responsibility to generate cash." - and that's it. In any lawfully run business an officer would have to be a CPA, a lawyer and be an expert in tax law, labor law, environmental law and God knows what, to be able to really influence much of anything. If a CEO is doing any of the above, then he, or she is a dismal failure, because what they need to do is create the environment where cash keeps coming in - one can't do that well and all the other things, too. [ not in any company of any size ]. Your statements, while I am sure they are well intentioned, are really naive. Hopeful, but naive as a new born calf. "You do what you can - the rest of the time you do what you have to do." |
| #19 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 6/6/2007 3:41:36 PM |
| #18: While I've never owned my own business, I have worked for many, small and large. I find your statement to be incredible. In every company I've worked for, the entire tone of the company was set from the top down. There are lots of real-world examples to look at. Enron, Tyco and Worldcom come to mind quickly, where the culture at the top drifted down to middle levels. I never said you must wear 10 hats as an owner, although many business owners do. However, if you were an ethical owner and found one of your employees trying to pull a fast one on your customers, would you step in and correct or would you ignore it and say "I'm only the president & CEO. I get all the profits and perks, but I have no control, no authority and the buck stops somewhere else." Give me a break. |
| #20 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 6/6/2007 3:53:51 PM |
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#19, C'mon man, you're smarter than that - clearly I said the ton is set - the strategic direction, as I put it... but the idea that business owners can, or even should direct their people like they have a stick in their backs is ridiculous - people hate that.
It is about influence and no one can, or is right 100% of the time. When you fund your own business, start it from nothing and build it, then and I submit only then, would you be able to speak to me about it. Finally, I have said it here before, "when things go great, I step back and my people did all the work - and when things go south, I move to the front and claim that I personally broke it - whether I even knew it was broken at all." Again, you don't have the perspective and you can't so let's move on. |
| #21 By 45754 (164.140.159.143) at 6/6/2007 11:45:27 PM |
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http://blogs.msdn.com/joestagner/archive/2007/06/06/the-register-technology-s-national-enquirer.aspx
Joe Stagner: If you ask me, it’s just stupid to commit to an AGREEMENT – BREAK the agreement – then cry and whine when your actions have consequences. |
| #22 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 6/7/2007 8:13:07 AM |
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#20: People don't need sticks in their backs to conform to the culture of the company. Once they see how things are done, they often go with the flow. Once again you've done a masterful deflection job. This thread was about MS crying because someone pulled a dirty trick on them.
#21: Even MS admits that he is only breaking the "ethos" or spirit of the agreement, something MS has itself done to others a million times over. Otherwise, MS would have waved some lawyers at him to force him to stop, but they can't so the next best thing is to punish him in whatever fashion they can manage. |
| #23 By 901897 (188.165.141.7) at 11/29/2012 1:07:00 AM |
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Yet it's not a good idea to get carried away and make the blog about your family or outside interests. This also depends on your own personality, your niche and the audience you are targeting. You should not, however, blog about anything that you wouldn't write in a business email.
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