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Sun calls for merger of ODF and Chinese office format | |
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| Time: 07:50 EST/12:50 GMT | News Source: Ars Technica | Posted By: Jonathan Tigner | ||
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The best thing about standards is that there are so many from which to choose. As Microsoft's Office Open XML (OOXML) format and ISO/OASIS's OpenDocument Format (ODF) battle for industry supremacy, a third contender has emerged from China. Developed by Chinese software developers, vendors, end users, and academic institutions to promote innovation and interoperability, China's Universal Office Format (UOF) is an open, XML-based format that leverages existing web standards and uses the zip format as a container like ODF and OOXML. At a recent WTO conference in Beijing, Sun chairman and former CEO Scott McNealy called for a merger between between ODF and UOF. | ||
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| #1 By 32132 (142.32.208.234) at 4/19/2007 12:25:46 PM |
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Scott McNealy hates Microsoft so much he would rather give control of ODF to a country run by mass murdering dictators?
Open source sure loves dictators. |
| #2 By 7390 (69.113.155.216) at 4/19/2007 12:54:49 PM |
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DCFA
desperate cry for attention Office 12 on vista is pretty nice |
| #3 By 8556 (12.207.97.148) at 4/19/2007 2:08:32 PM |
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I do not love or hate Microsoft. However, RedHook, OpenOffice 2.2 runs pretty nice on Vista also. And on Linux, OS X, etc. And, its free for everyone. I have sold MS Access with OpenOffice to satisfied customers that use databases we designed for them. I like to make money on my company's work while keeping total cost to the customer as low as possible.
To get back on topic, I would like to see the Chinese format fail. Who needs it, other than the ego driven party leaders that want everything to say "Made in China"? This post was edited by bobsireno on Thursday, April 19, 2007 at 14:13. |
| #4 By 23275 (172.16.10.31) at 4/19/2007 4:47:34 PM |
| #4, Good point - aside from the North Koreans, the Chinese are the most homogeneous people there are - your observations nail the central motivation here. |
| #5 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at 4/19/2007 8:47:39 PM |
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#1 "Open source sure loves dictators"
So does the US of A.... until they turn against their own interests of course... then they start calling them terrorists... and hating Freedom and whatever other propaganda bullshit they can get away with. Stop being such a hypocrite Mr Parkkker! #4 "party leaders that want everything to say "Made in China"" You know, it wasn't all that long ago that a lot of countries wanted "Made in China" because it meant that costs could be cut majorly. Of course, the side effect of doing that for an extended period of time is that the Chinese end up making everything, copying the rest and then being in a good bargaining position. You reap what you sow. #5 Did someone take over your account? You usually spend at least 5 paragraphs painting a whole race with the same brush! Tell us how you really feel! |
| #6 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 4/19/2007 9:39:31 PM |
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#6 Come on Kris. You know perefectly well that the OSS fanatics cheer everytime some dictator mandates the use of Linux. Cuba, Venezuela, China, Iran. You cheered them all on!
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| #7 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at 4/20/2007 12:58:04 AM |
| #7 Yes Parkkker, I cheered them on just like you cheered on your Government providing technology, information, training and weapons to those very same dictators... well at least whilst they were happy to do everything they were told to do... things changed rather quickly when they decided they knew better. Difference being that Linux hasn't killed anyone ... and no-one has retaliated with the use of bombs (or airplanes) against the makers of Linux. So keep cheering my little friend! Cheer to your hearts content! Funny how you talk about dictators, all the while dictating to everyone what they should and shouldn't use (and no Parkkker, a choice between XP and Vista is no choice at all!). |
| #8 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 4/20/2007 2:13:40 AM |
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#6, No, still the same ole me.
Now, you're going to tell me that the Chinese government does not promote a monistic social awareness among its people? In fun, one has to ask: "does crack come in Pez dispensers where you live?" Ok, so let's forget the west's insistence relative to theories of Chinese diversity and examine this scientifically and review homogeneity tests of Chinese biological standard reference material by means of instrumental neutron activation analysis - namely, the analysis of the scientific and anthropological record, which record exactly what I stated - the Chinese are among the most homogeneous people on earth. Their homogeneity is reflected throughout their national government and its policies - not the other way around. Now, this in no way reduces localized diversity - which is as abundant in China as it is in America, Germany, or any other country - seem confusing? It's not - and fundamentally, no different from rival teams and fans from different schools cheering for their side, while booing another school in the same state. During the Chinese Republican Era from1911 - 1949, the formulation that placed the source of Chinese unity in the "common origin" [tongyuan] of its people and, on the other hand, a more subjective formulation that located this unity in the gradual, evolutionary "melding" [ronghe] of several distinct cultures and races into a new national consciousness. That melding, while the product of the fusion of many diverse cultures, had been completed by the time the Qing Empire had been absorbed. Painting with a broad brush? Look, I know you mean well and we likely want the same things - peace and the best for all people, but for God's sake, lay off trying to paint me and others [however subtly], as racists, simply because we have taken the time to actually study these issues and use that knowledge before we open our mouths. You know, the idea that somehow for China to succeed, or express any form of diversity, does not mean that the United States has to fail, or its people be identified as imperialist racists. On the contrary, In order for China, or any nation to succeed, it is going to need to work with customers from all over the world. For Americans, being fair and at the same time competitive, does not mean we have to dissect ourselves and wallow in some puddle, forever reflecting on our faults. Doing so does not make one a better person, or a nation of better people. Embracing China as a real competitor is perhaps the greatest expression of respect we might offer - similarly, understanding China and other competing nations provides the best chance that in a highly competitive global market, we might actually continue to prosper. That does not mean that in order to do so, China, or any other country has to lose. Finally, and do take this as a criticism, if you set aside facts and the historical record in favor of an obvious, and honorable sense of social justice, you're going to fail - people will not respect you for it, or assess you to be sincere. I believe that treating all men as equals demands that they all be exposed to the same standards - they succeed, or fail based upon what they do. To do less suggests that other men cannot succeed on their own - ask yourself, which is truly and negatively pejorative and you’ll understand why people around the world find present day Americans so confusing and unworthy of our power. Most simply, China should be treated as the rival team she is – which respects her earned presence in the same league. |
| #9 By 37 (76.210.78.134) at 4/20/2007 6:59:31 AM |
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"#6 By chris_kabuki (1068 Posts) at 4/19/2007 8:47:39 PM [Delete | Nullify]
#1 "Open source sure loves dictators" So does the US of A.... until they turn against their own interests of course.." Sorry Chris, but you have seemed to have mistaken George W. Bush for the entire U.S. Keep in mind that 71%+ disagree with GWB. I am in that 71%. We, IMO, currently have the worst President that I remember since I have been alive. |
| #10 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 4/20/2007 8:19:01 AM |
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#10: 5 years ago, you would have been hung for such treasonous heresy.
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| #11 By 13030 (198.22.121.110) at 4/20/2007 9:28:59 AM |
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From the article, "The Chinese technology industry often creates its own standards in order to promote domestic business interests and avoid the licensing costs associated with foreign technologies."
Playing by the same set of rules is impossible for a nation that sees itself as superior. Now, was I referring to the United States or China? #6: You reap what you sow. No kidding. #6: You usually spend at least 5 paragraphs... His WALL OF TEXT will get you later... #7: You know perefectly well that the OSS fanatics cheer everytime some dictator mandates the use of Linux. Cuba, Venezuela, China, Iran. Not me. The freaks leading these nations are our generation's Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Hirohito wanna-bes. #8: your Government providing technology, information, training and weapons to those very same dictators Our historical support of dictators was due to the need to fight a far greater menace--saying we just supported dictators only present one side of the case. Regardless, in the compare the nations game, the United States wins far more often than it loses. #9: Most simply, China should be treated as the rival team she is – which respects her earned presence in the same league. I'm not sure I agree completely. Yes, treat China as a superb rival only to the extent that you have to be serious about competing economically with them. In other words, don't think we have an easy win against them. However, earning our respect and being treated as an equal implies that they have also risen to a level of social consciousness and responsibility that is comparable to ours. In this area, China fails and is clearly not an equal, nor a rival. ...people around the world find present day Americans so confusing and unworthy of our power. Until they need our aid. #10: Keep in mind that 71%+ disagree with GWB. What I find most interesting is the popularity of "hating" Bush. I'm an independent voter. The last election saw me voting for candidates in four different parties with neither the Republicans nor the Democrats getting the majority of my votes. I vote for the best man for the job regardless of party affiliation. In my opinion and as I felt in 2000 and 2004, George Bush was and still is the best man for the job. Remember, at one point more than 71% of Americans approved of Bush--sounds like we have more than enough fair-weathered fans. Good thing these same fair-weathered fans (and in-crowd haters) weren't able to force America to abandon its duties in WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and numerous other conflicts around the world. |
| #12 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 4/20/2007 10:17:14 AM |
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#12, Until they need our aid - That is so very true.
However, earning our respect and being treated as an equal implies that they have also risen to a level of social consciousness and responsibility that is comparable to ours. In this area, China fails and is clearly not an equal, nor a rival. - in the context here, global trade, my position makes sense - though the idea is broader: if we expect that nations and people CAN do things, they are more likely to. It doesn't excuse poorer behaviors, but does elevate the bar for all - ourselves included. I definately agree with your fair weather friend observations - makes me ill to see such. I have a customer that is a close friend. His brother in law is always about 2 feet from President Bush. He is part of his Secret Service detail. He said this, and I do quote him: "I have seen many Presidents and President Bush is the finest man I have ever known - not just President, but man." I do think President Bush has been treated very unfairly, but despite that, he continues to try to do the right thing. |
| #13 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 4/20/2007 3:34:18 PM |
| #13: Take another sip of the Kool-Aid. Bush is an idiot at best and a criminal at worst. |
| #14 By 23275 (172.16.10.31) at 4/20/2007 6:15:09 PM |
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#14, Oh, I don't know... I was once a pretty small part of some of our wars and I can tell you that not one of them was any fun and not much made sense or was certain at all. Pretty much the one who was slightly less confused than the other was the winner and even that wasn't always clear.
So I'm very inclined to give any President the benefit of the doubt - and having served Presidents I did not always agree with, I can tell you that regardless, they ALL deserved loyalty and the benefit of the doubt. I can't even imagine how hard a job any of them have - much less this one with so many people so against him. **Did you ever read what the press had to say about Lincoln? I can't imagine how bad stuff like that hurts a person's ability to function. |
| #15 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at 4/20/2007 9:52:44 PM |
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#9 That's better... I'm used to the ramblings!
"Painting with a broad brush?... as racists" I wasn't trying to be subtle, you obviously understood it clearly enough. Here, I'll make it a bit more obvious. YOU ARE A RACIST! The fact that you can back up WHY you are a racist does not in any way change the fact you are a racist. You can say anything you like as far as I care, the truth to the matter is that you were arrogant and ignorant enough to try and tell us how every single Chinese person is. Oh yes, let's ignore that whole everyone is special bullshit, everyone is different, everyone is unique. The new motto, courtesy of you is everyone is unique except those damn Chinese. Stop confusing the Government of China, or that Communism that you fear so so very much thanks to the propoganda that your Government told you about it (for your own reference I used to live in a Communist state and got the hell out of there, applying for refugee status, so I'm not defending Communism, in fact it is yet to be put into practise correctly anywhere in the world, but the fear you have of it is astounding!). If everyone though the way you do then we'd all judge every single American based on Mr Bush and I can tell you that it's a good thing we don't! It's a good thing some of us can differentiate between a Government and it's people, and it's a good thing some of us know full well that no one voice speaks for an entire nation! So yes sir, you are indeed a racist! #10 "Sorry Chris, but you have seemed to have mistaken George W. Bush for the entire U.S. Keep in mind that 71%+ disagree with GWB. I am in that 71%. We, IMO, currently have the worst President that I remember since I have been alive." Two things: 1) I didn't mistake Mr Bush for the entire US of A, i was using the same brush that Parkkker, lketchum etc. use to push their point across. If lketchum can do it under the disguise of "taken the time to actually study these issues and use that knowledge before we open our mouths" then so can the rest of us. Unlike those two, everyone else here, including myself, knows full well that the Government and it's people are not one and the same but one did vote the other into power so some level of responsibility is required. If of course this was not the case, and the Government was voted themselves in by cheating, regardless of any well meant reasons, then that is an entirely different story. 2) It's not just Mr Bush that has caused friction on the world stage. There have been many examples in the past of really bad foreign policies being put into place, some of which at least have fueled the hatred that exists in parts of the world against the USA. Note that I didn't say all or even a majority, but you'd have to be ignorant of history to come out and think the middle east, as an example, hates Americans because they hate Freedom! #12 "His WALL OF TEXT will get you later..." :) "Our historical support of dictators was due to the need to fight a far greater menace--saying we just supported dictators only present one side of the case." I wasn't trying to support every side, that would take several threads to include all the reasons those things were done. My point was that, regardless of the reasons, they were in fact done, so it's hypocritical for Parkkker to come out and say it's wrong for someone else to do something that his own Government has done in the past. |
| #16 By 23275 (172.16.10.31) at 4/20/2007 10:47:09 PM |
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#16, I may be a lot of things, but a racist is not one of them. You may not be able to understand it, but my post sure draws clear distinctions between people and governments it was about government policy that we're speaking to - I even state which government, when and why...
So you left your country - probably while I was heading to it - to help create the means by which you left - ironic, no matter how you look at it. I never said this before, but I saw a lot of young men heading out of many countries in this world - as we were heading in. After seeing this, I used to feel really bad for them - not just because they were in a bad way, but because they were leaving in the first place. I couldn't live with that - no more than I could live with people living poorly, or in fear - so I went and helped. We didn't always succeed, but we tried and the intentions were good. I've never feared the guy looking back at me in the mirror and I always felt bad for the guys I saw leaving and what they would face one day. I tell you, I can put up with being called any name, but I could never deal with how it would feel to not have stood and fought. |
| #17 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 4/21/2007 10:29:42 AM |
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#8 "Yes Parkkker, I cheered them on just like you cheered on your Government providing technology, information, training and weapons to those very same dictators... "
Which dictators did I cheer on? Seriously? You may (in a dishonest fashion) be refering to some logisitical help the US government gave Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war ... when the US was legitimately very mad at Iran for supporting Hezbollah (which had blown up the Marine barracks killing 300 soldiers). Th US (and I) were clearly hoping two regional powers run by fanatics would destroy each others armies making them less likely to be used against nearby countries. You, of course, were most likely cheering on Hezbollah. This post was edited by NotParker on Saturday, April 21, 2007 at 10:30. |
| #18 By 12071 (210.245.225.15) at 4/21/2007 11:06:38 AM |
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#17 Your original post, the one i was replying to in regards to you painting an entire country with a single brush, didn't mention any differentiation between a Government & it's people! Sorry but i cannot possibly read what little story is currently in your head, i can only go on what you write. what are you at the moment - cia operative? business owner? microsoft know it all? pinnocchio?
No you weren't coming to my country. You've probably never been to my country in fact, and definetely never to do anything for anyone other than yourself. My country did not get, not need any outside help, least of your "help"! The peoplefinally had enough and stood up to their governmentlike has happened the world over many times. So to answer the rest of your cowerdly ramblings, where you judge me without knowing the first thing about me, i can only say :- you arrogant, ignorant, judgemental, racist, supremist ass%$&@. It's a good thing you can put up with being called all those names, as they're all true! |
| #19 By 17996 (66.235.43.192) at 4/21/2007 3:30:27 PM |
| "Merger"? Ha! What he really wants is these people to abandon their format and simply switch to ODF. I doubt he really wants to sit down and modify ODF based on what UOF can do. |
| #20 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 4/21/2007 5:37:01 PM |
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#19 You are just a typical boring anti-american bigot who comes to this site to spew hate.
You remind me of all those Europeans who fund the PLO hoping they will finish off what Hitler didn't manage to do -- eradicate the jews. |
| #21 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 4/21/2007 7:08:19 PM |
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#19, Last post for me on this thread.
Like a lot of American career soldiers and vets [not unlike the many that come here], I retired and started a business - not an easy transition at all, but certainly possible in America. I didn't borrow any money and used what I saved and earned. With the help of the great people that work with me, we built a nice business - just like countless other people and a lot of retired vets. Just as I did when I led men in uniform, I swore to make sure that I created opportunities for young people in business and help them succeed way beyond anything I ever knew. I did that and it is among the best things about owning a business. Those guys and I just completed another network of systems and servers we built with our own hands. Like those before it, it uses Microsoft software - Vista Business, Ultimate and Office 2007 in a W2K3 R2 Domain with all the trimmings - hosted Exchange, SharePoint Services, etc... The bit about never doing anything other than myself, is unfortunate and certainly not true - in fact, you posted that on my dime. All I will say, is if you only knew... about all or any of it, you'd feel so foolish and so wrong, that you'd apologize. Instead of going into that, I am going to share what I hope you take to heart and learn - the best part about not being a coward is that one has nothing to prove. The unrelenting bastard in the mirror may be old, wore out and far from what he was, but he is content and happy - satisfied that he did it right. Now, a coward is dead already and that is why I felt bad for guys like you. You hate Americans like myself because of what we are - individuals who aspire to be better than what we might have been at birth. It does not mean we get anything at all right - it does mean you can't stand that we had the damn balls to try not just once, but over and over until we get put into the ground. I see "milksop" guys like you all the time - bent over, undefined little men that move to the side when I walk by. Last deal, even though any one of us may fail, we never quit and where and if we die trying, at least we die well. |
| #22 By 12071 (210.245.225.186) at 4/22/2007 10:46:17 AM |
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#21 Don't confuse anti-American with anti-lketchum and what he represents, an arrogant, ignorant... well you've heard it all before... that is of the opinion that as long as you do something, it's better than nothing. And once you do it, you shouldn't look back and dissect it, to see if it really was the right thing to do or not. You won't understand this i don't think, as you're of the same opinion of Mr Bush as he is, and that's fine, but the rest of us, including the vast majority of Americans (some of whom have been my friends since primary school and are now working for Kodak etc.) look back at the facts and judge them accordingly, rather than blindly being patriotic and well ignorant! So for the miklionth time, I'm not anti-American in the least, i've given my opinion on America - it has some of the very best and worst aspects - some of those most brilliant people of our time, and some of the most blind, arrogant, ignorant people too. You cannot judge 200+ million people with one statement (unless you're a racist like lketchum who has no trouble doing it for 1billion+ people).
#22 You're absolutely right, i do hate Americans like you, because you end up giving the rest a bad name. It's people like you, with attitudes like yours (all knowing, arrogant, blindly patriotic, always thinking you're right withing stepping aside to see if that really is the case, etc.) that fuel the fires that exist between nations and cultures. You didn't for a second even give thought to what country i was talking about, which time period nor how old i was at the time. I could have been 6, leaving with my mother, but that did not stop you from getting up nice and high on your arrogant full of yourself soapbox to spew your coward propoganda and push forward your party line. So for once in your life, take your own advice, as I'm not the one who should be apologising. |
| #23 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 4/22/2007 4:52:55 PM |
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Of course you hate americans. Of all kinds. You've never hidden that from people who've read this site.
You don't really seem to be for anything. You, Latch, MysticSentinel, the Slashdot crowd. You are all haters. Me, I like George Bush because rather than fall for the "brutal Afghan winter" propaganda coming from the left and Europe and their ilk, he actually sent in the military to clean out a nest of vipers who had been training terrorists to kill. He also went in and deposed one of the last big mass murderers still in power who financed terrorists. People like you stand for doing nothing and letting terrorsts kill Americans and Jews ... and then you pretend you are principled. You aren't. |
| #24 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at 4/22/2007 9:00:02 PM |
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#24 You're a moron, plain and simple, there's no other way to put it. And you support another moron whom God talks to - see, if you speak to God, that's fine, if he answers back then you're a psych-case!
How is that war in Iraq going by the way? Have you actually achieved anything of any significance? Did Mr. Bush send in just enough military to lose the war? I wonder if the soldiers are there thinking they're doing the right thing. And how's that search for Osama going (you know, the REAL terrorist... the one who did kill innocent people in NY)? Must be difficult to find someone attached to a dialysis machine. And how's that search for WMD's going? All that fake evidence you guys put out has come back to hit you in the face huh! Unlike you I don't want anyone killing anyone - Americans and Jews are no better nor worse than anyone else. You killing innocent Iraqi people, their women and children is just as bad as them coming to kill you and your family. The difference is that you've been brainwashed by the propoganda machine to think one is right and the other is wrong. Stop holding Americans and Jews above everyone else you elitist. |
| #25 By 32132 (142.32.208.234) at 4/24/2007 10:57:54 AM |
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#25 I see you couldn't think of one thing you actually stand for.
"How is that war in Iraq going by the way? Have you actually achieved anything of any significance?" Other than fighting and killing 1000's if not 10's of thousands of terrorists in Iraq rather than fighting them somewhere else? Other than cutting off the flow of funds to suicide bombers killing jews? 1) The WMD's were smuggled to Syria. 2) Iraq was ready to resume its WMD program as soon as the insepctors left 3) Iraq was a year away from a nuclear weapon. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/world/middleeast/03documents.html?ei=5090&en=ba99ceafb0f67900&ex=1320210000 "Among the dozens of documents in English were Iraqi reports written in the 1990s and in 2002 for United Nations inspectors in charge of making sure Iraq had abandoned its unconventional arms programs after the Persian Gulf war. Experts say that at the time, Mr. Hussein’s scientists were on the verge of building an atom bomb, as little as a year away. It must have hurt the NY Times (who hates GWB more than you) to admit that ... but it was in a good cause (to try and sway the US Election) "killing innocent Iraqi people" Significantly less than killed by Saddam. But it didn't bother you when he was slaughtering his "people" with biological and chemical weapons. Sometimes, if you stand for something, you have to fight for it. And sometimes, it is much, much better to do the fighting on the other guys turf to disrupt the plans to repeat 9/11. You wouldn't have a clue because you don't actual stand for anything ... you just hate the USA, Microsoft etc etc. This post was edited by NotParker on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 at 10:58. |
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