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Let's cut the crap about Vista security | |
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| Time: 08:27 EST/13:27 GMT | News Source: *Linked Within Post* | Posted By: Chris Hedlund | ||
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At first the media were crowing that there were no Vista flaws to be patched. Then it was oops there was in fact one critical bug, although it was actually part of the Windows Defender security software. The real issue is, however, is that there WAS a vulnerability in Vista and there will be more. I can almost hear Vista advocates screaming from the rafters: "For heaven's sake it was just one tiny Vista flaw out of 20." To them I say baloney! | ||
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| #1 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 2/16/2007 9:15:47 AM |
| I can hardly wait to watch the apologists writhing in agony trying to come up with an excuse as to why a Vista bug isn't really a bug, and a Vista security flaw isn't really a security flaw. |
| #2 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 2/16/2007 9:27:59 AM |
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Agony? Vista has been out for months. Microsofts competitors patch by the hundreds (Oracle and Apple and Linux).
Agony is watching the "press" be so biased by pretending no other OS has flaws. |
| #3 By 20 (67.9.176.193) at 2/16/2007 9:28:49 AM |
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Microsoft only ever said Vista was MORE SECURE, not 'unbreakable' (a la Oracle). Software, Microsoft is right. Vista is MORE secure.
I believe it was the media hype machine that was trying to imply Vista would have no bugs. How many bugs have they found in the latest Linux releases? I bet you'll find it far outpaces Vista so far. |
| #4 By 3653 (68.52.143.149) at 2/16/2007 9:46:28 AM |
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- google is NOT taking them to the cleaners
- apple is NOT outselling vista - there was NOT two dozen vista flaws in the first month - bill gates is NOT being investigated for backdated options - steve ballmer has not been caught with a hooker - oracle is still losing market share - sql server is still seeing double-digit growth every quarter. basically, nothing salacious or extraordinary is going on in msft land. so just sit back boys, and watch the headline writers as they literally GRIND out fantastic headlines on no news. you know, stuff like... - look what msft is emulating from open source this week - theres still brand confusion at live.com - msft has ?57? active court cases against them. they are evil. - msft makes $4B in profit each quarter. they are evil. you get the point. |
| #5 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 2/16/2007 10:04:57 AM |
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Keep on writhing, boys.
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| #6 By 23443 (63.93.197.67) at 2/16/2007 11:11:51 AM |
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Bottom line...
It doesn't matter what the media says. If Vista works for you, great. If it doesn't, find something else. I have Vista installed, along with Windows OneCare Live for security, and a LinkSys router, and I feel 100% confident that this combination, along with intelligent browsing by my wife, myself, and, in the future, my son, will protect me from any bad guys. Any software that is more complicated than "Hello World" can have security flaws. The important thing is to have layers of security, one of them being the Chair to Keyboard Interface. Later, TowerDave |
| #7 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 2/16/2007 11:31:23 AM |
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Someone asked me yesterday, "What if the world ran Unix?"
I smiled, as weakly as I could, and replied, "What do you mean, 'what if'... the world already did run largely Unix at one time - we already know what that world was like." It wasn't pretty. It wasn't inclusive. It wasn't secure - I know, I used to be paid to break it each and every day and I was good at it. It wasn't open. It wasn't a multix. It wasn't commercial in much of any sense. TEN FULL YEARS BEFORE MAC OS, and or Windows, I used a windowing shell that had no equal until about 1999. Resolutions have only very recently exceeded what we ran in 1990. And yes, it was a Unices based OS, custom written in the basement - albeit our basement was 35 acres in size and mainframes were cooled with liquid NOX. Point is, we already know - perhaps too much - about Unices and now well and truly dead, Multix. [PL-1, Ptew... Ptew... as the purist longs for raw machine code...] I was asked once if I ever met a virgin - I said, yes, two and one had only one eye and the other only had one leg. Mr. James Long - the man asking, replied, "Yeah, well, I never met either damn one of them." [perfection is rare and often flawed - is the point there]. I have only had one "original thought" - it was a good one for sure, but only one in all these years. Plato described an original thought as being among the most valuable things one might ever devise and he reasoned that most people would live long lives and never encounter one, much less have one. What I am trying to relate is that very little in our world is ever truly "new" or "rare" or "innovative" - when it is, it is just as often delivered at a price - ref my virgins example. Now... at the risk of lowering my street cred with Latch even further.... Windows Vista is "new" it is "rare" and it is "innovative" and it for damn sure exhibits an original thought - e.g., the way it was built and what that means for the future of software. Now... I say all this about Vista, for one reason - I have really, and personally watched it change how people feel about it - slowly, but not months slowly, or weeks slowly, but hours and days slowly... if you will. I have watched and delighted at seeing Vista grow on a person in a good way - like how great jeans fit, but somehow make one look better, too. I've watched as the most painful, long, brutal and costly upgrade on a Toshiba M400 Tablet went from pure agony for the user, to pure delight, charm and yes, "Wow" - no kidding, I heard the man say, "Wow" and he never says, "Wow". So - PC's are ho-hum and nothing new. Tech is all around us and ho-hum.... and yes, by the time of the third Moon shot, the American people were bored and thinking.... Ho Hum. All that... is fine... but Vista "is" new and in very different ways - about how it seems to wrap itself around a user's needs. I'd encourage any of you to witness this - not your own use... but spend a few hours over a few days with a customer, or friend and be ready to handle little questions... then show them how they can shape Vista the way they like it and step back.... you'll get an email like this, "You know... this is pretty cool" - now this poor fellow had been through upgrade hell and back - on his own - at his own design - to learn - once helped, and Vista loaded properly, things changed from bad, to terrific in a few days. I know guys like Latch won't buy this - it isn't written for them, or to counter them - it is offered for those out there that do want to see what tech can do for people and how it can sometimes make them smile. Sometimes it really can make them say "wow" - haven't you all ever written some software that did that? It feels great to see people respond that way. |
| #8 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 2/16/2007 11:32:14 AM |
| #6, Very well said! |
| #9 By 1401 (69.27.196.125) at 2/16/2007 12:15:31 PM |
| Hey! I know that chick with the one eye! She's not a virgin anymore... |
| #10 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 2/16/2007 12:27:48 PM |
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#7: Sure you did. Besides being an expert in everything Microsoft (and it's all wonderful!!!), now you're a Unix guru too. Is there anything that you can't do, Mr. Ketchum? And even if you aren't outright lying about your supposed Unix experience (cracking Unix day to day!), what does what happened in the computing world 30 years ago have to do with anything today except to allow you to disparage Unix for some unrelated reason? There is no 'Wow' in Vista, no matter how much Microsoft (and you) want there to be. Every review I'm reading is a gripe list of things that suck about Vista compared to XP (which, despite its documented flaws, is still pretty robust in my opinion). I'm sure you'll tell me it's all those nasty journalists out there and their common agenda to slag MS and Vista. The retail sales numbers are way down from projections and Ballmer is doing the rounds about how everyone (except MS of course) was overestimating Vista's sales. Those pesky journalists again, damn them!
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| #11 By 8556 (12.207.97.148) at 2/16/2007 2:00:04 PM |
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Latch #10: Ballmer also said yesterday that he is excited about the "opportunity" to see their web search site grow, when asked how he felt about the drop in percentage users of MS's search site. Anthing Ballmer says is PR or spin. Always will be. Time will likely show that Vista will be superior to any commonly used OS of today. Note the use of "will be" referring to the future Vista SP1 and beyond.
lketchum #7: what aspects or features of Vista, aside from the improved Tablet functionality, causes the "wow" response from your customers? I haven't seen it, yet, and I am curious about your experience with said response. My customers just want their PC to work with minimal or no downtime. Maybe its a rural Midwest thing. |
| #12 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 2/16/2007 2:07:00 PM |
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#10, Unix, was never intended to be a viable commerical product - hence its name, "uni" vice "multi" - it was the non-commerical, not for sale, not for use outside the classroom, version of Multix - which no longer runs - the last being taken off-line some years ago.
Neither is, nor it also ran as a teaching learning tool, Linux, has changed much, and the later itself was based upon and aborted from minix - as a learning tool. See, Andrew S. Tanenbaum, created MINIX at Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam to exemplify the principles conveyed in his textbook, Operating Systems: Design and Implementation - one of his students, Linus Torvalds leveraged it to create Linux as we know it. The "packages" *nix advocates are so fond of, originated as collections or programs and projects originally birthed by students at many thousands of universities around the world - school projects - not saying this is bad, but I am saying they are unverified and in many cases, really old - many are extrapolations, based upon earlier works. These packages, reformed, renamed and bolted on top of what are essentially learning tools, form the basis of OSS/FOSS and stuff morons invest in, because too few investment bankers went on to get advanced degrees....! 50 - not 30 years of history are still relevant, because as I suggested, so much of what appears to be new, isn't. There are holes big enough to drive a continent through in the *nix that were there when it was aborted by RAND more than 30 years ago. I tell you this much more, Latch, and I'll say it once, be a gentleman. I was busting bauds on graph paper [successfully] and exploiting raw signal by hand, before you were born. I could keep a depth of 600,000 positions in my head and remember them years later and in five languages. You should also know, that for the first 15 years of my career, I didn't open my yap to a person older than myself - execpt to say, Yes, or No Ma'am, or Sir and until I had earned the right to - I knew when that day came, because to my surprise, they asked me what I thought. When I stumbled, they said, no, don't answer now, think about it and then answer - that was sound advice and I took it. |
| #13 By 32132 (142.32.208.231) at 2/16/2007 2:14:17 PM |
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#10 dumbLatch "The retail sales numbers are way down from projections "
Vista had two launch days. One for business, one for consumers. XP had one launch day. On business launch day, Vista sold almost as many copies as XP did on the one XP launch day. Add up Vista sales from both launch days and it was a great launch. |
| #14 By 50038 (87.64.153.180) at 2/16/2007 2:48:41 PM |
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#13
Sorry about this, but even though you seem to be rather knowledgeable about computers (i started with punch cards myself), you got your facts about Linux being based on Minix slightly wrong. (maybe I misunderstand your "leveraged", English being my third language and all, but if I misunderstand, then I'm sure other international readers might misunderstand as well) This is from a statement by mr. Tanenbaum himself (http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/) quote 1 : Finally he asked me if I thought Linus wrote Linux. I said that to the best of my knowledge, Linus wrote the whole kernel himself, but after it was released, other people began improving the kernel, which was very primitive initially, and adding new software to the system--essentially the same development model as MINIX. Then he began to focus on this, with questions like: "Didn't he steal pieces of MINIX without permission." I told him that MINIX had clearly had a huge influence on Linux in many ways, from the layout of the file system to the names in the source tree, but I didn't think Linus had used any of my code. quote 2 : Linus didn't sit down in a vacuum and suddenly type in the Linux source code. He had my book, was running MINIX, and undoubtedly knew the history (since it is in my book). But the code was his. The proof of this is that he messed the design up. MINIX is a nice, modular microkernel system, with the memory manager and file system running as user-space processes. This makes the system cleaner and more reliable than a big monolithic kernel and easier to debug and maintain, at a small price in performance, although even on a 4.77 MHz 8088 it booted in maybe 5 seconds (vs. a minute for Windows on hardware 500 times faster). An example of commercially successful microkernel is QNX. Instead of writing a new file system and a new memory manager, which would have been easy, Linus rewrote the whole thing as a big monolithic kernel, complete with inline assembly code :-( . The first version of Linux was like a time machine. It went back to a system worse than what he already had on his desk. Of course, he was just a kid and didn't know better (although if he had paid better attention in class he should have), but producing a system that was fundamentally different from the base he started with seems pretty good proof that it was a redesign. I guess you could get from "the base he started with" that he started with Minix, but if I understand the context in the article correctly, Linus had the book explaining how minix was made, so instead of being based on Minix, Linus probably made Linux from ideas he got by reading the book. At least that's how I understand it. PS : I try to keep an open mind, so I run Windows XP, Mac OS X and Linux (OpenSuse 10.2) at home and use Windows XP, Vista, OpenSuse 10.1 and Fedora Core at work. I'm sorry to say that for now I really don't like Vista much though. Maybe it'll be better after SP1. As I said, I'm keeping an open mind, and maybe I'll like it a bit better as I get more used to it. It definitely looks great though. |
| #15 By 25030 (70.88.150.70) at 2/16/2007 3:05:12 PM |
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There is no totally secure Operating System, just as there is no total secure house, no totally safe car, no unbreakable encryption, and no impregnable DRM.
If you like Vista, great. Use it. If you prefer something else, great. Use that. Whatever you use, you WILL need to patch it and update it. Sometimes, those patches will be more numerous and frequent, sometimes, not quite so much. Time for me to head home for a long weekend and have a beer or two. Relax folks. |
| #16 By 23275 (172.16.10.31) at 2/16/2007 4:49:27 PM |
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#12, Specifically, in the reference case, it was how much easier photos can be managed - especially the ability to tag then inside the image and how one may scale a preview by sliding the vertical separator to the left - increasing the size of the preview relative to thumbs in the left pane.
Since he has a great many photos of children, a grandson and a lot of family events, it was very important for him to be able to get a better handle on that. Also, he loved how the transitions for these same pictures were played in full screen mode in the media center - I know, it has been there, but the way the two work together is what he liked. Other things were more subtle, but impressed him even more - he uses a Toshiba M400 Tablet, and a dock at both his office and at his home - however, he uses two different external monitors. Vista, just as it does for his networking and sharing, easily remembers where he is and sets up properly each time he moves from home to work, or work to home. Flip 3D was also cool for him - especially since he has a lot open at one time - Flip 3D's ability to allow one to see and then just click on an app and begin using it is part of what he liked about it - e.g., it's useful, and not just cool to look at - in tapping mode, he hits the Flip 3D Quick-Launch Icon and then just taps the app he wants to acces - it makes copying and pasting a lot easier on the smaller screen when he uses it in tablet mode. As I suggested, it has been about a lot of small things that brought about his delight with the new OS. #15, Thank you for the added information, and yes, my use of "aborted from and Leveraged" were intended to convey very quickly, what your post reflected, but that was not the main point of my post. The very real fact that there is an important and relevant legacy that still influences computing science was the point and that and as compared to Windows Vista, that legacy is left wanting in nearly every category. A lesser intent was to communicate that one can;t be naive about the *nix - yes, experts can secure them, but out of the box, only a fool would use them commercially - too much, over too long of an well evolved history, is known about how to exploit them so deeply, that no one may assume they are safe on an unmanaged version of them - I will say it again, as I have shared many times - please do not place tools on any *nix facing the public networks and Internet. Again, thanks for the added information. |
| #17 By 3653 (68.52.143.149) at 2/16/2007 8:49:23 PM |
| [cricket chirp] |
| #18 By 73040 (68.225.161.27) at 2/18/2007 6:22:00 PM |
| Windows Vista Launch sucked,Even Windows ME got more Hype when it was released.what happen? I guess there will never be a launch as big and well know as Windows 95.they get a band no one has heard of and no TV personality(Jay leno for Example) |
| #19 By 210800 (194.143.146.166) at 2/25/2009 4:08:40 PM |
| I agree with your point of view<a href="http://freeteenagers.freehostia.com" style="color:#000000; text-decoration:none">.</a> |
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