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Time:
14:31 EST/19:31 GMT | News Source:
Forbes.com |
Posted By: Julien Jay |
Thanks Tim! Microsoft's settlement of the private antitrust actions filed against it "makes a mockery of class actions" because it deliberately fails to compensate plaintiffs and is likely to be rejected by the court perhaps in the next couple of days. The "mockery" comment comes not from Microsoft, nor from a critic of class-action lawsuits, but from a plaintiffs' lawyer involved in the case against the software colossus. The proposed settlement has deeply divided the class-action bar itself. Attorneys representing plaintiffs in the case have weighed in with powerful objections to the idea of settling the case by having Microsoft give computers and software to needy schools. They have urged Maryland federal court judge J. Frederick Motz to reject it and start all over. The proposed settlement raises questions about how class actions are prosecuted. There are always issues of whether class-action lawyers truly serve the interests of class members; but those questions become sharper in this case, where none of the relief is going to class members. Most of the discussion of the settlement plan so far has focused on objections by Apple Computer, Red Hat, Linux advocates and others, who say that the plan will only help Microsoft extend its monopoly by gaining strength in school systems, where Apple remains the leader.
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#1 By
135 (209.180.28.6)
at
12/19/2001 3:55:25 PM
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Good.
Make the whiners go to court and prove they were overcharged.
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#2 By
20 (168.215.253.242)
at
12/19/2001 5:36:48 PM
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Nothing MS does will make these losers happy. MS could completely disband, have all their employees executed via dull butter knives, have all executives castrated and covered in chocolate and left in the wilderness with hungry wolves, and have Bill Gates himself publicly executed on national television by a pack of angry porcupines and they still wouldn't be happy.
You can't rationalize with irrational people.
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#3 By
1295 (216.84.210.100)
at
12/19/2001 8:58:57 PM
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#2 Is completely right... and here is what the numbers have to say about MS overcharging
"Trends in the inflation-adjusted retail prices of Microsoft's application products between 1990-1999 do not resemble what would be expected from a monopolist. The retail price of Excel is down 29 percent; an Excel upgrade, down 77 percent; Word, up 7 percent; and a Word upgrade, down 73 percent. The entire Office suite--with a very powerful word processing program, spreadsheet program, presentations program, and email program--costs less to buy in 1999 than the leading stand-alone word processing program did in 1980."
"In markets where Microsoft is not present, software prices have declined about 15 percent; in markets Microsoft enters, prices have declined an average of 60 percent"
This is from a book that is an essay about the MS antitrust lawsuit and this is only 2 paragraphs WITH source notations about the case.
If you read these paragraphs anyone who has paid attention will agree. A retail copy of Bank Street Writer for the Apple II E was about $200 and compare that against the MS Office sweet. And if you look at Oracles prices, they have fallen since MS SQL Server has jumped in the mix.
This lawsuit is ridiculous and has no evidence helping the plantiffs. However, there is evidence helping MS. All that is happening is the Prosecutors are getting some face time on TV and other media and nothing here is ever going to help the consumer.
There are many Essay/Books that discuss the validity of the Anti-Trust case all of which find MS innocent of being anything but a bunch of trash talking e-mailers in the early-middle 1990's.
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#4 By
135 (208.50.201.48)
at
12/19/2001 11:10:52 PM
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I paid $495 for WordPerfect back in 1987.
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#5 By
2960 (156.80.64.164)
at
12/20/2001 10:05:23 AM
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What about Access?
They sold it for $99 or less until they had it embedded all over the place, then the price was jacked up.
Take a look at what Access costs now days.
Also, Whatever the data says, Office is FAR more expensive than it used to be...
TL
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#6 By
1295 (216.84.210.100)
at
12/20/2001 12:59:16 PM
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#11 What's funny is you believe that the Judges were not politically motivated. My wife works for 3 federal judges and in cases in which political "values" are concerned they most likely will ignore the evidence and move forward.
TechLarry: Not really. If you get the basic Office its not to much. And Access has far more abilities then it used to so a price upgrade seems reasonable.
#15 Not that I'm saying that your lying but it would be nice if you could prove that statement about ghost writing campains. I never saw anything like that. Prehaps you read that in a "un biased" aritcle on TrashPot.
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#7 By
20 (168.215.253.242)
at
12/20/2001 2:39:25 PM
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#14: You are incorrect. Access has never been embedded. Access is a UI and database application creation program which uses the Jet database engine. The Jet database engine is free, for the most part and is accessible to anyone, even if you don't have Access on your system.
If you want to make cool forms, reports, etc, then you buy Access. Also, I haven't seen any sharp increase in the price of Access over the years. What is your source for this information?
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#8 By
135 (209.180.28.6)
at
12/20/2001 3:03:34 PM
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I do recall Access 1.0 for Windows 3.1 back in '94 or so. It really sucked and didn't have the functionality of even dBase III.
The more recent versions are considerably more powerful.
I don't recall what databases cost back then. I think FoxPro or Clipper was $300-400 though.
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#9 By
1295 (216.84.210.100)
at
12/20/2001 3:33:39 PM
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#17 I appreciate the article. I had not seen that and its nice to see someone come with some evidence :)
However, if you read the article you will see:
"Microsoft deferred further comment on the lobbying efforts to Citizens Against Government Waste, which is said to be behind the letter-writing campaign. "
I think it is wrong to put the blame for such campaigns on MS's back. There are crazy groups like this all over the place and it make perfect sense for them to be involved since alot of money and time has been spent proving the states case (which is not provable).
If you read on you can see that other practices which i could believe are coming from both sides of the battle and the only thing to blame here is balls out tactics. But the idea that a corporation would go as far to start ghostwriting seems a little crass... but a bunch if phsycos fighting some "worthwhile" cause, that seems like a tactic they would use.
"Groups funded by Microsoft competitors have also been heavy-handed in lobbying the state attorneys general. ProComp, a group funded by Oracle Corp., Sun Microsystems Inc. and other software companies, presented its case against Microsoft to top law enforcers during the annual gathering of the nation's attorneys general in June (see story). "
Again thanks for the article... that is what creates an iteresting discussion rather than a childish bitch-fest <cough>sodalinux</cough>
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#10 By
1295 (216.84.210.100)
at
12/20/2001 7:37:19 PM
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#21: I agree a group like that is quite stupid but... they do exist: http://www.cagw.org
#22:
"So all corporations (or at least MS) are good"
Well no. That was not the case I made. I simply stated that a ghostwriting campaign does not fit what most corps would do. Now I know there have been "elected officials" that have done that and I sure wouldn't put it past some wacko group like the the CAGW.
"but elected officials are bad"
Generally yes. If you trust them then you are pretty arrogant. Judges are careful on the decisions they make (especially federal) because they are appointed and promoted by the President. So therefore they are not "Elected Officials" they are appointed. They must kiss ass to get somewhere. I don't trust politicians any farther than I can throw them. They will tell you anything and do anything just to get a vote and keep them in office where they don't have to work. There are some officials that don't fit this rule to a "T" but I wouldn't go taking off your sox to count them.
"Or are you just saying whatever you want at the moment to support your desired view of the world?"
That isn't a view of the world just of our political system which people so blindly follow. The two parties have things so locked down that for an Independant in my state to get on the ballot he/she must get 100k signatures on a petition, when the persons who win the congressional seats have never got that many votes to start with. And as far as my view on the judges, especially in the MS case, read the transcripts like I have and you can tell he wasn't being unbiased.
Anyway your post was worthless because you did nothing to negate my either of my above statements. Rather, you tried to make them sound as if they were even on the same topic. One was about the way the judges have handled the case as a whole. The other topic was about the validity of a statement that said MS was behind ghostwriting campains and a discussion about the article in question.
Just seems like another Penguin Thumper has simply skimmed some paragraphs and made up his mind without thought or fact doesn't it?
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