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Microsoft looks to extinguish LAMP | |
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| Time: 11:41 EST/16:41 GMT | News Source: News.com | Posted By: Andre Da Costa | ||
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Microsoft engineers have toiled for years to make the company's software industrial strength and worthy of large corporations' dollars. Now the software giant faces a different challenge: fending off open-source alternatives that are good enough for most jobs. At Microsoft's TechEd customer conference last week, executives spelled out the company's lineup to combat these cut-rate incursions onto its turf. In particular, the company is focused on improving its alternatives to the so-called LAMP stack, the combination of the Linux operating system, Apache Web server, MySQL database, and scripting languages PHP, Perl or Python | ||
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| #1 By 15406 (216.191.227.90) at 6/15/2005 1:08:30 PM |
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Good luck with that one, MS.
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| #2 By 12071 (203.185.215.149) at 6/16/2005 12:12:17 AM |
| #2 LAMP appeals to a different group of people than .NET + SQL Server + VS + IIS + ASP.NET etc. One is free, the other will cost you a lot of money (regardless of what specials you find) so you see a lot more people "tinkering" with LAMP. Whilst LAMP is enough for a lot of users, I find MySQL to be sorely lacking as a database and so you find that people replace MySQL with another database and PHP etc with Java. |
| #3 By 2332 (66.92.78.18) at 6/16/2005 2:16:29 AM |
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#3 - .NET is free. You can use MySQL with it if you want (or Postgres, or any other DB that supports ODBC). You can develop .NET in notepad, or SharpDevelop, or any of the many free dev tools.
The only thing not free is Windows Server, but with Mono you can use Linux. LAMP appeals to people who don't know any better, people who choose to ignore the alternatives, and people who are forced by requirements into that environment. ASP.NET is far superior to basically everything on the market as long as you can run on Windows. If you can't, you still have some opportunities with Mono. |
| #4 By 12071 (203.217.66.156) at 6/16/2005 7:12:51 AM |
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#4 .NET might be free, but the other items that csmac listed aren't. And I grant you that if you're developing your .NET applications using notepad then you may as well not bother as you are killing the majority of it's RAD abilities. SharpDevelop only runs on Windows so if you're developing on Windows you may as well use Visual Studio with ReSharper but you do have the option of using MonoDevelop on the non-MS OS'. However given that the current status of Mono isn't close to being on par with the .NET framework it's arguable just how useful Mono is currently for anything other than "tinkering". But here's hoping that Mono manages to catch up quickly as it will provide us all with a realistic alternative.
"The only thing not free is Windows Server" In that case, tell me what the point of paying for Windows is and then running Apache, MySQL and developing using SharpDevelop (so you can claim that it's all free) when you can do the same under Linux and save yourself the cost of Windows Server? "LAMP appeals to people who don't know any better" This is just funny coming from you. Surely these ignorant people are much more likely to know about Microsoft then LAMP... so obviously they are well aware of the alternatives and chose to go with LAMP for their particular needs. This doesn't make them ignorant - those that immediately dismiss LAMP (look in mirror) are the ignorant ones that dismiss the alternatives. Having said all of that most companies run something closer to SSSJ (Solaris, Sun One, SQL Server/Sybase, J2EE) or Windows rather than LAMP which is usually for individuals or smaller companies (that don't need anything more powerful than MySQL). As i said, LAMP just appeals to a different group of people and it fits their needs perfectly, even if you personally hate perl/python/php/etc. "ASP.NET is far superior to basically everything on the market as long as you can run on Windows" Thank you for your opinion. |
| #5 By 2332 (66.92.78.189) at 6/20/2005 7:52:03 PM |
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#5 - "However given that the current status of Mono isn't close to being on par with the .NET framework it's arguable just how useful Mono is currently for anything other than "tinkering""
Agreed, Mono still has a little ways to go but it has definitely reached the point of being useful for production development. Would I use it for large scale enterprise applications? No. But it should appeal quite a bit to the very people who you claim should be looking at LAMP... the people developing somewhat smaller applications that don't need the big guns. "In that case, tell me what the point of paying for Windows is and then running Apache, MySQL and developing using SharpDevelop (so you can claim that it's all free) when you can do the same under Linux and save yourself the cost of Windows Server? " Well, I wouldn't run Apache... nor did I suggest anybody should. IIS is free and comes with Windows. MySQL is horrible, but it's free where as MS SQL Server is very expensive. (Although it's far cheaper than DB2 or Oracle.) So the question remains why would somebody buy Windows just to run .NET + MySQL (or some other free DB)... well, for one, Windows 2003 Server is more secure than Linux. It's also much easier to maintain. And when running ASP.NET on IIS, it's faster than anything LAMP could hope to do for all but the most trivial of applications. "Surely these ignorant people are much more likely to know about Microsoft then LAMP" Oh come one... its rare these days to find college grads with ASP.NET/.NET experience. Most colleges teach Java to CS majors, at best. And LAMP or PHP is far more common place on college campuses than anything from Microsoft, mostly thanks to the anti-MS bias. Kids aren't even introduced to Microsoft products because their teachers have chosen to ignore what MS has produced for the past 5 years. This leaves a huge number of ignorant, young programmers whom have been "raised" in an anti-MS world and haven't even taken the time to look at Microsoft's offerings. "This doesn't make them ignorant - those that immediately dismiss LAMP (look in mirror)" Heh. I've coded plenty of LAMP applications (unwillingly), as well as Coldfusion, JSP, PHP, and even some good old fashion C++ CGI apps. Tack on ATL, MFC, VB, Java and even some icky Cobol and I would say I'm pretty far from ignorant on these topics. But please, let me know what language features or syntactical curiosities in MP or PHP are preferable to some nice C#+ASP.NET. I'd be really happy hear about them. "As i said, LAMP just appeals to a different group of people and it fits their needs perfectly, even if you personally hate perl/python/php/etc." Good for them, but I think that in most cases the $380 spent on Windows 2003 Server to enable the use of ASP.NET + C# + IIS 6, along with a free DB of your choice (I recommend Postgres), and SharpDevelop or MonoDevelop will result in a far more productive development environment as well as a far more performant and maintainable web application. If $380 is really the barrier to entry for your enterprise, then perhaps a hosted solution would make more sense? Is $7.95 / month too much? LAMP might have $0 startup costs (aside from hardware and time), but it will cost far more over time thanks to administration difficulty and the lack maintainability for everything but the smallest of applications. This post was edited by RMD on Monday, June 20, 2005 at 19:55. |
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