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E3 Opinion: Xbox 360 is outgunned and outclassed by Sony's PS3 | |
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| Time: 14:27 EST/19:27 GMT | News Source: E-Mail | Posted By: Byron Hinson | ||
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There was a point, at Microsoft's pre-E3 conference four years ago, when a lot of people began to believe in Xbox. I can pinpoint the moment almost exactly - it was the point when the video of Dead or Alive 3 rolled, and the jaws of the audience slackened as the best in-game graphics they'd ever seen suddenly graced the screens ahead of them. Back when Halo was just another unproven first person shooter, a single swoop over Team Ninja's beautiful, sun-kissed beach was enough to convince many people that Xbox was worthy of attention. I know; I was one of those people. | ||
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| #1 By 37 (67.37.29.142) at 5/17/2005 3:17:53 PM |
| Yup...typical. The Xbox 360 from what I have seen so far outclasses the PS3 in most areas, especially community gaming. |
| #2 By 665 (24.17.246.233) at 5/17/2005 3:57:09 PM |
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I think the writer of this article is dead-on. If you go look at the specs, the PS3 is technically over twice as fast (though we'll have to see how that actually pans out)... Besides the online gaming aspect, I'm not sure what the 360 will do better than the PS3. The PS3 is faster, has better HD support (1080p, plus blu-ray), looks better and will most likely have better a better game selection and more exclusive games than the 360. If anything, I am an Xbox fanboy but I don't see how someone can look at both consoles and not see how the PS3 isn't obviously superior.
Edited because I didn't want to end my sentence with 'is,' and decided to go with a triple negative instead :-) This post was edited by ToddAW on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 17:34. |
| #3 By 7797 (63.76.44.20) at 5/17/2005 4:13:51 PM |
| AWBrian, umm what areas exactly does the XBox 360 outclass the PS3 in your opinion besides community gaming? |
| #4 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 5/17/2005 4:28:05 PM |
| I agree, Todd--I'm not a gamer, but the PS3 trailers are absolutely jaw-dropping. The 360 trailers look great, but you can definitely see that the PS3 has the hardware upper-hand. |
| #5 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 5/17/2005 6:23:48 PM |
| After reading a bit more, it appears that most of the PS3 trailers were rendered demos, not in-game content, whereas most of the 360 stuff was in-game. The consensus seems to be "this could be another PS2 marketing ploy" and "we'll believe it when we see the games." At any rate, the graphics power these machines harness is phenomenal. I wonder what they will cost.... |
| #6 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 5/17/2005 8:03:58 PM |
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We all seem to be forgetting "tools" and the IDE for XBox....
With very few SW titles of any kind pressing hardware, developer tools are critical. Building a diverse base of gaming and community/communications experiences will be a bucket-load more about dev tools and API's. XBox 360 has this all over PS3 - with a far better understood dev environment. So what if one can push a dull - same'o object around twice as fast....matters not a whit...what does matter is the software and what can be done in it. Sony knows this and "MUST" attach a very expensive engine of twice the power to a brick just to get it off of the ground.... MS doesn't have to, because the HW benefits from a far better underlying platform, and SW that runs on it. In this regard, Micrsoft has always been the most "complete" company of its kind. An in a BTW, category, this is why it would be death for Apple to port OSX to x86, or x64 hardware...finally, the OS would have to run side by side in tests against Microsoft software and they, as Sony knows with the PS3, it'd be a complete slaughter. Finally, on the business side, a less costly, and more profitable platform like XBox, will change much more that console/community entertainment - fleets of devs are working in an IDE much like that needed for LH and don't think for a second that it won't help LH. It hasn't been written yet, but it will be - a future headline..."Why Sony's Playstations failed..." or..."It was the software, stupid..." All makes Steve-O's "Developers, Developers, Developers...." stage chant seem a lot less nutty and a lot more relevant. They serve an interesting set of goals....work to make devs entirely relevant and hardware and networks irrelevant - I am of the opinion that they are right on track. |
| #7 By 1845 (67.172.237.116) at 5/17/2005 8:04:20 PM |
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Todd, since the CPUs haven't been benchmarked against each other, how do you know that ps3's is twice as fast? Same from a GPU perspective?
PS3 gets a point for high def, though I doubt many users or games will get much out of it. Many won't get much out of any high def content much less of the res Sony is talking. Blu-Ray is good, but who knows if it will catch on. Sony botched BetaMAX as well as mini disks. It's quite possible that Blu-Ray won't make it too far in the market. Conversely, it may do very well. Still, I'm not sure it should be called a point for ps3, because, unlike 360, ps3's drive is doesn't appear to support every CD/DVD media type (+-R/RW, MP3, WMA, etc.). (Perhaps it does and I just haven't noticed it.) So, is one clearly superior? I'm not sure I'd say so. I think they both took different approaches and I'm looking forward to what is built on top of them. This post was edited by BobSmith on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 20:06. |
| #8 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 5/17/2005 8:13:07 PM |
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#9, Good point...
The next step for "P" is not 1080, but 1024P nearly all existing and planned HD capable systems conform to this. A whole lot about phased signal structures would have to be written here to go into it in a lot of detail, but it is what drives what looks good and what does not look good across an a-stropic view of the same signal. I would not look to see any benefit from 1080P and would look to 1024 x 720P in support of 14:9 formats on HD capable devices. Newer upscaling DVD players support this format and it dogs 1080I/P The real question for me would be which platform support HDMI - if either. |
| #9 By 665 (24.17.246.233) at 5/17/2005 8:27:20 PM |
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#8, #9, #10... When I said the PS3 is superior, I meant in pure power. Supposedly the PS3 can achieve 2.18 teraflops with the 360 at about 1. That means a lot. You're correct, though, that it doesn't mean everything. One advantage developers will have while programming for the 360 is the fact it's running a proven chip... the Cell architecture is pretty new and unproven.
According to an article I read (over at GameSpot, I think), Sony's blu-ray will indeed support all of the CD/DVD formats (although I'm doubting support for WMA for obvious reasons). It will also support at least two different types of flash media (Smart and Sony's Memory Stick Duo, plus conventional USB flash drives, I would imagine though I could be totally wrong). That's exciting, especially if games can be backed up to cheap memory instead of the conventional over priced propriety media. I'm sticking with Sony making a better console at this point - it should be quicker, it's prettier (imo... except maybe the controller) and it's more open. But at this point it's all words... I can't wait to get my hands on them! This post was edited by ToddAW on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 at 20:27. |
| #10 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 5/17/2005 9:13:15 PM |
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#11, I certainly share your excitment for new platforms. I do also know this...I can take killer hardware - top shelf stuff, and on hardware costly less than half that, produce and configure a better experience for a user...in software.
One of the things that has always amazed me are statements about how closed Microsoft is...I assess the reverse is actually true... I hear x, or y alternative is "more open" - I could not disagree more. XBox is a great example of a "practically open" where enough is rightfully closed to ensure consistency, but with enough tools to do far more, far more profitably than if every line of every form of code were exposed. As a developer, and a small [ok, puny] business owner, practically open models allow me to do more - not less. PS3 needs a lot more power - that comes at more than a literal price - what one can do in software, regardless of how open it might be, is less and will deliver less acorss a narrower band. Sony has misjudged the market with the PS - it has not evolved and I'm not speaking about features or raw hardware specs. Years ago, we spun pure gold around gold pins to build really large scale models of chips we needed to perform specific tasks. The circuits that were created were mapped and later reduced in size many times over. The software we built was aware of that hardware and vice versa. Because of this, very little processing power was needed to do amazing things that have yet to be duplicated [to my knowledge in any case]. This is the direction that SW will take, and the 360 is really designed to begin to condition developers to think in this way [both HW and SW devs]. Blu Ray is an example of the opposite thinking in so many ways...storage with moving mechanical parts? That also must end and will. 360 is a vehicle more than anything else and one that Sony and PS3, no matter how big an egine they bolt to it, cannot compete with that - they don't even know what it is they are competing with and for me that is both the most interesting and frankly, sad part about it. Remember, Microsoft has evolved long range thinking as a culture - it is how so many bad things might be said about it and it all rolls off like so much water on a duck's feathers. There is a lot more behind the 360 than meets the eye. |
| #11 By 665 (24.17.246.233) at 5/17/2005 9:25:17 PM |
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Iketchum, I never said MS is often "closed," but would you rather back your games up on a cheap Smart Media card or on an expensive console specific medium? I'm not sure I understand your arguement against blu-ray... 360 will be using a conventional DVD drive as opposed to the PS3 which, with disks capable of holding 50-gigs, will be better able to support HD media that will soon hopefully be mainstream.
You're absolutely right that you can have a better experience without having the most powerful hardware, but having better hardware certainly opens up a lot of doors. |
| #12 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 5/18/2005 12:12:59 AM |
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#13, no, but you did say that PS was more open...it may be; many others may be, in one sense, but not one that matters much in practical terms. That was my simple, but not so simple point. The entire "open" side of the matter has, aided by many in the press, succeeded in owning that word - while they negelected its meaning...I mean math is pretty open, but how many actually use much of it?
As regards Blu Ray I once worked with a guy who was working with [successfully] using water as a storage medium...with a purity so great that if one were suspended in a 100 foot tank of it, one would have an immediate initial sense of falling - exactly as one might if one were afraid of heights... It was and is recognized that storage means - any of them, stink [despite being the most diverse mix of engineering in any computing device - one does have to marvel at the many engineering disciplines being addressed]. Back to Blu Ray... 360 will be on the market some 32 months before its replacement is announced. May be Blu Ray at that time, may be not - point is, who cares...USB Blu Ray before then...likely, but who cares...the entire matter doesn't need it. Why? 360 is a launching pad for a lot of things, not least of which is how SW uses HW and how intelligent HW learns and changes according to what the SW and people using it are doing, have done, and condition it to do - in really small steps at first. Back to my friend and his bucket of water...as if LH were the "end" of it all..."yikes...I hope not!" Storage media must become irrelevant - so abundant and so fast that it is no longer a factor. It must also become so stable that it has no moving parts and never wears out. ?so why make Blu Ray, Sting Ray, or any other Ray, part of the effort? Why not use what most storage media will become? Nah, not water, can't keep the density stable enough - heat, temp, atmosperic pressures, etc... But...a data cube that uses a couple of handy laws in physics where light can be bent by slowing it - control where it is slowed and one has a nifty gate that can a) be measured, and b) controlled. Do that and one can produce a differencing stream [10101010101]. Blu Ray is irrelevant, and if my friend with the bucket was right, faster than one can say Blu Ray, the storage world will change and so will much else. That will likely happen before people know the difference between Blu Ray and the rays of light that wll make a mod PC case truly interesting to look at. If it doesn't, 360's will still have a USB port or two and a few model years with an optical drive bay. Yeah I know...delivery...that would be the network for the most part and it will be. It will happen because people are well, "people." I mean anyone spending a pile on even multiplexing capable backup jobs [me, frown], are sick of the dwell times, costs and drain on resources to do what? Safeguard moving parts that will fail eventually. 360 will help end that and start much more. 360 is about, "Let's loose our ever loving minds and go nuts engineering platform dev...but with the same disciplined rules that result in profitable platforms, tools and SW that at the same time do not hazard the stuff that keeps shareholders up at night, or causing the press to start burning people at the stake.." 360 is open indeed - open minded and PS3 is a product born of others' ideas - it's engineering as the rest of the world views engineering. Funny - both ha ha and ironic...around this world many scratch their heads when looking in at the US, and companies like MS. They ask, and I've heard them..."why did/do the Americans do that?" The answer is always the same, "because we choose to..." Funny part is, even the smartest people around the world remain vexed, right up until they watch some nut case drive a little car around the surface of the moon. |
| #13 By 7754 (65.27.90.2) at 5/18/2005 12:50:52 AM |
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Arrrrgh... it is so frustrating to lose posts to this login problem!!
lketchum... I understand what you're saying--MS is thinking beyond a pure brute-force approach by putting a priority on the tools it provides to developers to take advantage of the hardware. But I think it raises a couple of questions. First, it is well-regarded that the success of the XBox 1 was due to the power of its hardware. And from the looks of things, MS certainly wasn't aiming to be outdone this time around, either. It doesn't really make sense to me to argue along the lines of, "Well, MS didn't really feel the need to have the absolute most powerful hardware out there, because they would concentrate on the software." I don't think MS had any intention of sacrificing one for the other. But it appears the PS3 has bested the 360 in terms of raw hardware. You are right in that it may not matter in the end, but when MS won their original acclaim by having superior hardware, it's definitely not a point in MS's favor. Now, the PS2 may have been a total pain for developers, but that certainly didn't stop anyone from writing games for it... in fact, that was the PS2's strong suit--and that doesn't seem to be going away with the PS3, either. And with contributions like Epic's Unreal 3 engine, it seems like maybe the developer's tools argument may not be as strong as it appears. To MS's credit, we really don't know how the two machines fare side-by-side, even though it appears that the PS3 has the upper hand. But the 2.18 TFLOP figure is just a simple addition of the Cell's power plus the GPU's power--that's a marketing ploy, not of any relevance to reality (of course, perhaps the same is true on the 360 side...). Nonetheless, just the number of registers available to the Cell is amazing. It's also apparent that MS wanted to reduce their costs per console--one of the main reasons we don't see an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray drive on it (alluded to by Bill Gates, IIRC). Which brings to mind a more practical matter--how much is each company going to lose per device? Maybe that's no concern of ours, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the final product is--hardware, software, pipeline of games, whether reality and Sony's claims meet, etc. If nothing else, though, it would appear that Sony may have won a bigger battle--marketing--by stealing the 360's thunder and claiming "double the power," whether true or not. At any rate, they are both very impressive machines. This post was edited by bluvg on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 at 00:57. |
| #14 By 3 (62.253.128.15) at 5/18/2005 2:01:16 AM |
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I'll back Todd on this one - right now side by side the PS3 seems much better both in looks and power, Microsoft knew they were facing a behemoth in terms of the Cell processor which is why they plumped for 3 CPU's, but I'm not quite sure they knew how far Sony were in getting so many companies back doing exclusives for the console. Microsoft made a mess up with the MTV show, to me thats their one big mistake so far, they thought they were being clever and cool showing it off first on there, but instead the missed out on the market that is actually interested in it as showing 5 minutes of Xbox footage and 25 minutes of gormless "celebrities" won't gain peoples interest into a console.
On paper the Cell blows the Xbox 360's CPUs out of the water, and even if the specs for the PS3 are not dead on the Xbox CPU will still clearly have less than half the power of the Cell chip. |
| #15 By 135 (24.163.245.167) at 5/18/2005 2:30:06 AM |
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There's a lot more to performance than teraflops. I remember when the Xbox 1 first came out the PS2 people were claiming it was dead because it wasn't as powerful as the Sony box.
There's also a question of price. The PS3 is rumored to cost $500 coming out the gate, whereas the XBox 360 will be more like $300. Given the specs, it is easy to see the PS3 costs Sony more to build. Perhaps they keep the price low to compete... how much will they lose on each unit? |
| #16 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 5/18/2005 3:33:25 AM |
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#15, oh no..that was the press...XBox ended up penetrating the market for the exact same reasons that 360 will eventually own it - familiar, easy to use and profitable tools. In reality, XBox was way under powered and used no exotic combination of anything - it was and is a very basic PC. In terms of technical sophistication from a hardware perspective, XBox was hardly pressing any edge of any envelop. XBox was all about a system of tools and randori - the conditioning of many gaming houses and MS's own studio working to PM many of them at once. It wasn't about a console at all - it was about using what was laying around. It was the Saab of gaming consoles (ever work on one, made up of VW and Audi parts end to end - or what is laying around). It was about building many different types of systems parallel to one another. It was in effect a "mule" To some very large extent, so is 360, but its more about a mule team this go around. Was the original XBox more powerful than PS/PS2, sure it was, but so is my watch, phone and blender. I maintain that either is more sophisticated in terms of HW...but XBox's tools? Now that's another matter - what they became is amazing
and porting between PC and XBox? A breeze - houses love that and they should. 360's initial appearance on MTV...pure genius...the exact spot where XBox has had the least traction...amongst many PS fans. There will be plenty of other opportunities to introduce 360 to many more markets...just watch as 360 and Media Center and its updates [read native HDTV and Cable Card Support] link up. A much larger market with far greater resources to buy into the total package. Once MS/XBox had the fundamentals of development down, it became about community and extending that community beyond gaming and the game/dorm/bed-room. Dev houses knew they could count on huge support and even bigger marketing dollars [ = more profitable titles = more titles...]. These guys aren't just smart...they're crazy super smart and disciplined planners - a "man decade" is a flicker to them and be certain, they know dern well what Sony is doing, and can/cannot do. So smart..."How does one take a bridge? - Both ends at once..." MSN TV2 - so clever, and very similar community building components and the exact same processes driving development. So smart that they'll plan exactly how much of Sony to let stay in play - can't attrit them too much - after all, they have to control the edges of their market - that sells wads of MS SW. Gates may not be [or he may be] the smartest man alive, but he'd run a keen race for the wisest...he was wise enough to hire people way smarter than he himself is and turn them loose. It takes real guts to do that - to let go, but once one does, its awfully fun to watch what they do. All informed speculation aside...it is going to be great fun watching how this engagement fleshes out. Very soon, there hold a promise that our living rooms, or any room, will be a lot less dull and a lot more fun, entertaining and educational - which surprises me..teaching/training are sciences badly needing art and an adaptive social influence...I wonder why so little of this power is being devoted to making learning and task oriented training fun and compelling... what a waste - to miss that opportunity. |
| #17 By 37 (67.37.29.142) at 5/18/2005 8:54:34 AM |
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I am going to have to disagree with Byron and Todd on this one. We need to get one thing out of the way first however. On paper, the PS3's internal hardware specs exceed the 360. No if, ands or buts about it.
Now let's get to the REAL deal here. Gaming is FIRST about the gaming experience and the software. Xbox 360 is and will be the software LEADER in gaming. Nobody knows software better than Microsoft. Sony can't hold a candle in the wind to Microsoft when it comes to software. There is nobody better to produce software that works WITH hardware than Microsoft out of the big 3 console. PS2 fell behind Xbox 1 sales because of two reasons. Market saturation (in Japan mostly) and lack of a community with a centralized online gaming option. Xbox is the inventor and leader of online gaming community for a console. With the new Xbox Live features shown in Xbox 360 with massive multiplayer, 250,000 specator, free and premium versions, 2 million plus community (which will mor than likely go up 5x once the free service is out), downloadable content for demos/trials, Sony is out of it's league. The new Xbox Live service will be bringing together communities to play together as a team in REAL LIFE scenarios, such as a 24 hour race at LeMans. You and a team can literally race against others over a 24 hour time period. You will be able to pit during your race, literally switch drivers to a team mate who is on the other side of the world who will take over your car and continue the race. With the Xbox Live service connecting users to MSN/Windows Messenger (70 million users) for in dashboard chats, direct game invite notifications and current game notification within the new upcoming Xbox 360 forums, and game invite notifications while watching TV, streaming HD, or Windows Media Center entertainment listening, Sony is out of it's league. Xbox 360 was the first to announce wireless controllers. Xbox 360 was the first to announce WiFi on he console. Xbox 360 was first to announce a detachable hard drive. Xbox 360 may be getting a port of Final Fantasy XI, but they will be the FIRST to offer it ONLINE. Xbox 360 was the first to announce that all games will be HD. Xbox 360 was first to announce that ALL games are LIVE aware. Xbox 360 was first to announce that ALL games will allow for custom soundtracks. And there is no denying that Xbox 360 not only has massively increased developer support and have just the same number of top developers as Sony, but Xbox 360 has the software leadership to take advantage of the hardware. Sony is playing catch up right now. But competition is good. IMO, Sony "reacted" to Xbox 1 and decided to come out with such boastful hardware. Yet they copied MS in many areas as well. And it is of note that the games you saw on the Xbox 360 at E3 were apparently running at 1/3 power as they were all alpha machines without all their processing hardware. That isn't available until July for devs to start using. And it has also been confirmed on numerous sites that Sony was running essentially movies or cgi, similar to what they did with PS2. Also of note, Sony told a Japanese magazine that the pricing would be around $465.00 US for the PS3. http://ps3.ign.com/articles/615/615745p1.html |
| #18 By 3 (62.253.128.15) at 5/18/2005 12:46:32 PM |
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#19 - yes some of the showing of "games" on the PS3 were CGI, but as most large sites have no stated a lot of them were real time. If Microsoft hadn't pushed forward their "show off" of the Xbox 360 on the MTV show then it would have been sony announcing all those features first as Sony had the E3 spot before MS, so i don't think that counts for anything as they were both clearly going to be going wireless. All new consoles are going to be HD too - and MS didn't announce that first, it was mentioned by Sony over a year ago. Yet sony is the only one of the two actually doing both HD support and providing a REAL HD drive to provide the real HD content from films, video and game CGI.
The biggest problem I see is that Microsoft is trying to be a Jack of all Trades and master of none with the Xbox 360, hardly anyone has a Media Center PC, yet they have added a feature most buyers of the Xbox 360 won't use, the Media Center extender, I love that they have, but it seems mistake. Sony are clearly concentrating on what a games console should be, a games machine and buyers will snap it up. The only reason PS2 sales dropped was that most of the worlds console buyers already own it nothing to do with online gaming, as even Microsoft state that sales of Xbox live are still poor. PS2 online options are out of the Xbox league, but Sony clearly have something up their sleeve as they haven't announced it yet. As for all the other features and saying Sony don't know software, well most first party games on the PS2 were far better than most stuff Microsoft came out with on the Xbox bar Halo 1 and 2, so yes Microsoft know software better, but games software is another matter entirely. What I really think sums up the state of Microsoft's still clear worry is that Time interview with gates stating that when the PS3 comes out, Halo 3 will come out the same day. Does this mean even if the game isn't finished they'll rush it out? Does it mean they will hold it back too if PS3 slips or changes a date. It's just a plain stupid comment that even MS staff are trying to cover over now as not meaning it quite how it sounded. Maybe Sony will have GTA 4, Metal Gear Solid 4 etc ready for launch, how stupid will Microsoft's comments sound then. I guess it's me personally, but all the hype over Live's new features is great to read about, but personally I have better things to do in my life than watch other people playing games in spectator mode. Being Live! Aware is also next to useless, I personally never attempt to see who's online when playing a single player Live! aware game, so thats basically saying every game can use Live! just a lot won't use the real side of it. Downloadable demos is great though but I'm still not a fan of downloadable content as the price isn't worth what you're given, even Epic state that making users pay for new maps etc is a rip off. But once again, everything from both MS and Sony is hype, the only company I believe right now is Nintendo as they are sticking to plain and simple gaming, without hyping up processors and GPU's. I'll give it til next Christmas before anyone can judge which one has done better (and I don't mean sales) |
| #19 By 37 (67.37.29.142) at 5/18/2005 3:12:08 PM |
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"#19 - yes some of the showing of "games" on the PS3 were CGI, but as most large sites have no stated a lot of them were real time."
Still a sham IMO, especially the Killzone feature, which a developer was quoted as saying that it wasn't all real time. "If Microsoft hadn't pushed forward their "show off" of the Xbox 360 on the MTV show then it would have been sony announcing all those features first as Sony had the E3 spot before MS," Would have, could have, should have. But didn't. "All new consoles are going to be HD too - and MS didn't announce that first, it was mentioned by Sony over a year ago." Sony NEVER mentioned they had Playstation 3 coming out as HD in spring 2006 until Monday. "Yet sony is the only one of the two actually doing both HD support and providing a REAL HD drive to provide the real HD content from films, video and game CGI." True. A real PRORPIETARY Blu-ray HD drive. I think the blu ray will be a flop. It should have been HD DVD standard. "The biggest problem I see is that Microsoft is trying to be a Jack of all Trades and master of none with the Xbox 360" It worked for the Xbox. They are making a profit sooner than the expected (they didn't expect a profit until 5 years in). "hardly anyone has a Media Center PC, yet they have added a feature most buyers of the Xbox 360 won't use, the Media Center extender, I love that they have, but it seems mistake." Many more have it now than ever because you can get them for $700 now...back into normal PC price range. And, it doesn't cost MS anything to throw in Media Center support, so heck, why not. It's a freebie essentially. "ony are clearly concentrating on what a games console should be, a games machine and buyers will snap it up." Agreed. But that just isn't the case any more. Even the PS3 will be a media hub...and they made sure to announce that they will have the same media entertainment features as the Xbox 360. Even the nintendo. Xbox has only really added the Media Extender, otherwise, all other features sound pretty much the same across the entire line. "The only reason PS2 sales dropped was that most of the worlds console buyers already own it" |
| #20 By 37 (67.37.29.142) at 5/18/2005 3:12:54 PM |
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Well as I mentioned, it is saturated. However, it seems 70% of the PS2 sales are in Asia. The Xbox 1 sale vs. PS2 sales in the USA are close as can be.
"nothing to do with online gaming, as even Microsoft state that sales of Xbox live are still poor." No they haven't. Last quote from them is that they were excited about the current count of subscribers. "PS2 online options are out of the Xbox league, but Sony clearly have something up their sleeve as they haven't announced it yet." Vaporware. And if they do, imitation :) "As for all the other features and saying Sony don't know software, well most first party games on the PS2 were far better than most stuff Microsoft came out with on the Xbox bar Halo 1 and 2, so yes Microsoft know software better, but games software is another matter entirely." Agree to disagree? "What I really think sums up the state of Microsoft's still clear worry is that Time interview with gates stating that when the PS3 comes out, Halo 3 will come out the same day. Does this mean even if the game isn't finished they'll rush it out? Does it mean they will hold it back too if PS3 slips or changes a date." Speculation. If you want to speculate, we could say it's done right now and is in beta testing and will release next spring when PS3 is out. "It's just a plain stupid comment that even MS staff are trying to cover over now as not meaning it quite how it sounded." Never heard that either. In fact, the MS people I have talked to loved it. There is no reason to hold back. MS says Sony is a competitor. They want to beat them. They should be able to say what they want. "Maybe Sony will have GTA 4, Metal Gear Solid 4 etc ready for launch, how stupid will Microsoft's comments sound then." Don't think they will sound stupid at all. If Halo 3 is released, that is yet another $150,000,000 in the first month in their pocket. |
| #21 By 37 (67.37.29.142) at 5/18/2005 3:13:07 PM |
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"I guess it's me personally, but all the hype over Live's new features is great to read about, but personally I have better things to do in my life than watch other people playing games in spectator mode."
Well, some people have better things in life to do then post news on websites or even game at all. Visit the thousands of sites dedicated to Xbox and Live gaming that clamor for more options, ability to watch others, etc. "Being Live! Aware is also next to useless, I personally never attempt to see who's online then playing a single player Live! aware game, so thats basically saying every game can use Live! just a lot won't use the real side of it." That is you. I (as well as MANY others) have been playing a Live AWARE game (Fable for me) and have been invited to play another game with them, so I was able to accept the invite and hop into the game. It happens everyday. My non-live/non aware games are fun, but it sucks not being able to be invited to a game. I usually have to play my game next to my computer with my Xbox tab in MSN Messenger open and check for my friends that pop on and look for the invites. That happens with MANY. "Downloadable demos is great though but I'm still not a fan of downloadable content as the price isn't worth what you're given, even Epic state that making users pay for new maps etc is a rip off." Again, that is you. Xbox isn't going just satisfy you. There are many that want demos that are downloadable so that they don't have to subscribe to OXM for example. In addition, Microsoft isn't forcing ANY developers to charge for content. Nobody would force Epic to charge for it. That should be addressed with each individual publisher/developer for that game. "But once again, everything from both MS and Sony is hype, the only company I believe right now is Nintendo as they are sticking to plain and simple gaming, without hyping up processors and GPU's." Eh...the only thing they mentioned was playing and downloading old games to play on a new machine. Sounds like a lost cause to me...but is prolly good for others. |
| #22 By 3339 (65.198.47.53) at 5/18/2005 6:25:06 PM |
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"The Xbox 1 sale vs. PS2 sales in the USA are close as can be. "
2 to 1 is close? No, it's not close. Sony outsells the XBox 2 to 1 in the states. Current numbers may look close but total numbers are just as far apart as they are the rest of the world over. |
| #23 By 37 (67.37.29.142) at 5/19/2005 8:10:42 AM |
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"2 to 1 is close? No, it's not close. Sony outsells the XBox 2 to 1 in the states. Current numbers may look close but total numbers are just as far apart as they are the rest of the world over. "
I would say HECK yeah it's close. Considering the Playstation has been around for 10 years, and Xbox continues to outsell PS2 units right now, i would say it's awesome. |
| #24 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 5/19/2005 11:15:40 AM |
| I don't think that's quite the case, Spinner... there are a TON of PS2 machines in the US as well (significantly more than XBox). I don't really think too many people here are going to consumer electronics stores and thinking, "Well, I'm buying X instead of Y because X is American," especially when most of it is made overseas anyhow. I can, however, see folks in other countries buying X over Y because it's NOT American or because X is from their own country (ie, Japan). |
| #25 By 3339 (65.198.47.53) at 5/19/2005 1:30:11 PM |
| If product X sells 2x more than product y, they are "close"? Freaking hilarious!!! |
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