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IE's market share down to 83% | |
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| Time: 10:32 EST/15:32 GMT | News Source: ActiveWin.com | Posted By: Byron Hinson | ||
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IE's market share down to 83%, Firefox up 10+% as of April 05. | ||
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| #1 By 31608 (200.84.23.23) at 4/30/2005 10:57:26 AM |
| Interesting, Poor Netscape |
| #2 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 5/1/2005 12:12:51 AM |
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The only part about this whole matter that bugs me were the early headlines that advised people to dump IE for an alternative browser - coupled next to a link for "get FF here"
It just seemed too obvious and smarmy - convenient and not representative of much thought behind the recommendation. It bugged me, because now that FF has been examined more, it has been found to be so full of security holes that no one in their right mind would dare use it. And it looks terrible - cheap even. Those same holes weren't added "after" it became a darling - they were there all along and I expect far more will be found. I'm not stating this from a pro or con perspective in any regard, either - just that if the press is going to champion one thing over another, it would be nice if they knew what they were talking about. |
| #3 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 5/1/2005 12:15:27 AM |
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The AW sign-in error got me - sorry for the double post. This post was edited by lketchum on Sunday, May 01, 2005 at 00:28. |
| #4 By 12071 (203.206.248.144) at 5/1/2005 2:02:57 AM |
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#3 And with the mass marketing effort that will come with IE7 now that they are losing market share.
#8 "The only part about this whole matter that bugs me were the early headlines that advised people to dump IE for an alternative browser" Were you "tricked" into switching to an alternate browser as a result? If so, did you feel the same when you most likely switched from Netscape to IE all those years ago? And if not, then why does it bug you? "it has been found to be so full of security holes that no one in their right mind would dare use it." There's that FUD that all of you Microsoft zealots are so well reknowned for! According to Secunia, Firefox has 4 outstanding bugs (the highest of which is rated "Less critical") whereas IE has 18 outstanding bugs (the highest of which is rated "Highly critical") - one of those bugs is from 2002 and 5 are from 2003. Now comparing the number of bugs isn't the best measure, and let's be honest it makes IE look completely appaling so let's look at the ratings of those bugs instead. Firefox has 0 "Extremely critical" and 2 "Highly Critical" bugs whereas IE has 9 "Extremely critical" and 24 "Highly Critical" bugs. IE has more "Highly Critical" bugs than Firefox has in total! Now who's out of their mind? Don't get me wrong here, I in no way want to encourage you to use anything other than IE, I'm just quite sick and tired of hearing the same blatant lies out of the Microsoft camp especially when they try and to pin it under the "I'm not stating this from a pro or con perspective in any regard" excuse. "just that if the press is going to champion one thing over another, it would be nice if they knew what they were talking about." I hope you're going to take your own advice there and learn about why people choose Firefox over IE rather than blindly championing IE and putting down any and every competitor. Sure some people choose it because it's more secure, but that's not the only reason they choose it. They also choose it for it's massive amount of addons/extensions, it's standards compliance, tabbed browsing, themes etc. But they must all be out of their minds for choosing anything other than IE right! Everyone who chooses anything other than Microsoft software must be out of their minds! It's a good thing we have you hear to show us the light, preach on brother! This post was edited by chris_kabuki on Sunday, May 01, 2005 at 23:44. |
| #5 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 5/1/2005 3:46:03 AM |
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#10, The totality of the vulnerabilities in FF is less known that it is in IE - and your comparisons are not entirely accurate - IE on XP SP2 is an entirely different matter and you know it. My point is, FF, as it became more well known, was found to be alarmingly unsecured and not the answer to Internet browser security that it was held out to be.
As for add-ons in IE - there are thousands...more customizations and a richer SDK than you can imagine. It is vastly more sophisticated than any browsing client available and it has no real comparison as regards available customizations - the available COM Clients and thousands of controls written for them would stagger even the most jaded of anti-IE users. Whether one uses FF or not was not my point. I've used it throughout its life-cycle to test sites we build and out of curiosity as I am sure many have. I tried it as my only browser for a week - I made it four days and couldn't stand it - it is slow and bleeds memory like a stuck pig. I can leave IE running for months and do so without ever closing it, or rolling a machine. Again, a personal choice. I just don't believe for a second that FF is secure. I assess it has been given a pass. Use what you like, but I wouldn't assume FF is any more secure than say a screen door...it spits and that can be measured...if it can be measured it can be differenced - do that often enough and the right hand and a couple of sharp pencils will own it every time. And may be AW won't say it, but I will, "KNOCK OFF THE BAD LANGUAGE." It's bad form. |
| #6 By 12071 (203.206.248.144) at 5/1/2005 4:26:06 AM |
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#11 "The totality of the vulnerabilities in FF is less known that it is in IE"
Any proof of this beyond you just stating it as such? All the firefox issues are available for anyone to look through on Bugzilla - can you point us where we can do the same with IE? Oh you can't! That's what I though! More FUD from the Microsoft camp, what a suprise! "and your comparisons are not entirely accurate - IE on XP SP2 is an entirely different matter and you know it." Your right as usual - a comparison of a very specific version of IE that's available only to a small proportion of all IE users is a MUCH better comparison! What was I thinking! Those bugs still exist in XP SP2 - it's not as if those bugs from 2002/2003 just vanished! "I just don't believe for a second that FF is secure." But then again you believe IE with all of it's outstanding bugs IS secure - so we will take that with a grain of salt. But keep using IE if it works for you and allow everyone else to try and make up their own minds about which browser (or browsers) they want to use. It's not my fault you're incapable of seeing both sides of IE/Microsoft. "KNOCK OFF THE BAD LANGUAGE" What bad language are you referring to exactly? The only "bad" word I used (that I can see) is "crap". Is that what you're referring to as bad language? |
| #7 By 12071 (203.206.248.144) at 5/1/2005 9:23:41 AM |
| #13 I think we both already agree on that. I simply don't agree with lketchum spreading FUD just because this story mentions that IE is losing market share. Read what he wrote, according to him, you are "out of your mind" to be using Firefox! You have to wonder what his true agenda is calling anyone considering anything non-Microsoft as being "out of their minds"! |
| #8 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 5/1/2005 9:48:46 PM |
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#16, It's actually far worse than that parkkkker.
#10, re-read your last paragraph at your post - that is what I am talking about. You are so casual about using inappropriate language on these boards that you do not even notice it. No biggie for the adults, but kids read these posts as well - mine do. Little ones deserve a better example from all of us - if for no other reason than to show that discourse may be maintained without such instruments. |
| #9 By 12071 (203.185.215.149) at 5/1/2005 11:42:46 PM |
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#15 It's a good thing that Microsoft are so open about all the bugs in IE, it's not like they have ever patched something and forgotten to tell the public - oh my mistake, they have! The difference between them is that you've managed to find the information about those issues and any issues coming up whereas I'm still waiting for either yourself or lketchum to provide us all with a similar place which lists all of IE's bugs and issues (past, present and coming up). I have a feeling neither of you will be able to deliver - prove me wrong!
And if you're going to display opinion articles to support your view, why not also link to the US-CERT recommendation to stop using IE? They too must be out of their minds according to lketchum! #16 "re-read your last paragraph at your post" My apologies, I did miss that one so I've just gone and updated it so that your children will be safe from the profanity! |
| #10 By 12071 (203.185.215.149) at 5/2/2005 1:02:39 AM |
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#18 And it doesn't suprise me that thousands of completely hidden security issues in IE do not both you. It doesn't suprise me that you don't care that IE has security issues known about in 2002 that are still without patches. It doesn't suprise me that Microsoft being no better than anyone else in any regard doesn't stop you from proclaiming them as being flawless. It doesn't suprise me that you are able time and time again to provide us links to all the supposedly hidden bugs in Firefox yet you cannot link to the bug database for IE so we can fairly compare the two. It doesn't suprise me that you would rather link to a personal comment instead of a recommendation by US-CERT to support your argument. Nothing that comes out of you suprises me anymore! And after lketchum's comment about everyone being out of their mind using FireFox, nothing from him suprises me either!
"When it comes to Microsoft and religion, the people who are obsessed with hate like you Kabuki will excuse anything." I don't hate anything or anyone - try those religious groups that you keep mentioning! |
| #11 By 23275 (209.149.207.40) at 5/2/2005 1:26:22 AM |
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#17, It isn't so much about safety as it is the fact that as soon as I or anyone of them sees it - it just diminishes any message you write and it is taken less seriously.
I mention it, because Activewin is one of the very few open forums that manages to stay above a lot of the nonsense out on the net and provide for meaningful discourse. When my youngest, who builds amazing machines sees it, he asks..."is he on the bad team..." He doesn't fully know what that means, but he does know he does not want to be on any team that's bad. He just associates bad behavior with bad things. |
| #12 By 12071 (203.185.215.149) at 5/2/2005 2:20:14 AM |
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#20 "it just diminishes any message you write and it is taken less seriously"
I try not to curse, not neccesarily for the points you mention but because I usually don't see a need for them. Having said that in some cases they do help in describing how one really feels about an issue, like the one above. "When my youngest, who builds amazing machines sees it, he asks..."is he on the bad team..."" You can let your son know that I'm not on any team, I don't subscribe to the "gang mentality" where, as an example, people join the Democrat or Republican gang and then base the rest of their views on the views of their gang rather than thinking for themselves on individual issues! |
| #13 By 23275 (209.149.207.40) at 5/2/2005 2:45:57 AM |
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#21, It's not about definitions that are that clear - and this is especially relevant - it is about character...a young man, or any person seeking to find and do the right thing regardless of the personal consequences is what the young man is seeking to adhere to - the very essence of character and without mitigation.
That's what I'm saying and what my Son is expressing when he asks such questions - I know this, because that is what he is taught and equally, that men must take a stand. The relevance to this goes right back to my original post....that is, there is more to Internet security than FF - it, like all things built by man, are inherently flawed and that it is naive to assume that becuase it is FF that it is any less flawed than IE. I wish you had some great leadership examples as I had - some great people - flawed, but always seeking to do the right thing and I assess that Microsoft software, including IE represent thinking that is consistent with this - not saying of course that the devs at FF do not - just that they have a long ways to go to catch the systems in place that produce SW at MS. |
| #14 By 12071 (203.185.215.149) at 5/2/2005 4:08:12 AM |
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#22 Let's see if I've understood you correctly. In paragraph 3 you say that all software is created by man and is therefore inherently flawed (we agree thus far). As a consequence it is naive to believe that FireFox is any less flawed than IE (well if man are equal then you're right - some know how to design better than others). But using your own argument it would be equally naive to assume that IE is any less flawed than FireFox - so what was the whole point of the paragraph 4 other to prove once again where your lips are permanently attached? Honestly, I've heard less sales pitches and chest beating from Microsoft employees and sales people.
"I wish you had some great leadership examples as I had" I wish I could waffle on without any examples too but so far I've responded to all of your claims and am still waiting for a response I'm fairly sure I will never get (and I'm sure you'll write several paragraphs worth on why it doesn't matter that you haven't responsed because it's obvious that IE is better without any proof/logic/evidence to back it up). He's your son so you can decide what to teach him, but try to teach him to think for himself, to come to conclusions on his own backed by something other than what you tell him or any warm fuzzy feelings he might have. |
| #15 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 5/2/2005 6:07:27 AM |
| #23, Simple. I trust the processes more at MS than at FF/Moz. They make better sense and result in a product that runs better. FF has not run as well for us and against less scrutny has proven to be no more secure. I also trust a company like MS to do those things necessary to secure any vulnerabilities once they are discovered, but more to work to find them on their own. I maintain that the press has been wrong about FF - it is not the end all in browsers and faces a lot of challenges if it is to be able to become more than it is. |
| #16 By 12071 (203.206.248.144) at 5/2/2005 10:30:34 AM |
| #24 That's fine and I'm no longer going to comment any further in this regard but can I ask where that trust comes from? Is it just blind faith in a Corporation which you believe is out to do good rather that doing anything and everything required to make a profit? |
| #17 By 16451 (67.131.75.3) at 5/2/2005 11:17:49 AM |
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#20 " Activewin is one of the very few open forums that manages to stay above a lot of the nonsense out on the net and provide for meaningful discourse"
By meaningful discourse are you referring to the highly technical and relevant discussion thread on this forum regarding AMD's Athalon 64 migration from the 754 socket to the 939 socket, or your proof that if homosexuals exist then God must also exist? |
| #18 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 5/2/2005 4:57:59 PM |
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At least the forum managed to stay above what most have become.
I didn't participate in the AMD migration thread - so I cannot comment on it. God didn't create homosexuals - he created beings of free will - they make choices. That was my point. Nature couldn't have created them - not with a fundamental flaw creating the potential for the destruction of that very species. Not unless you are saying that homosexuality is a defect. That is one argument, but not the one I made. |
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