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'Stunned' Apple rails against Real's iPod move | |
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| Time: 13:24 EST/18:24 GMT | News Source: CNET | Posted By: Brian Kvalheim | ||
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Apple Computer on Thursday issued a scathing response to RealNetworks' move to unlock Apple's proprietary technology and make it possible for people to listen to music in RealNetworks' digital file format on iPod devices. In a terse statement, a "stunned" Apple accused RealNetworks of adopting the "tactics and ethics of a hacker" with the release of its Harmony software. Harmony allows songs sold via RealNetworks' online store to be played on a variety of portable devices, including Apple's iPod and Microsoft-compatible rivals. Apple threatened to block access to the iPod using Harmony the next time it updates the software used to run the device. The company last week unveiled the fourth generation of the trend-setting music player. | ||
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| #1 By 2332 (207.31.248.12) at 7/29/2004 3:20:46 PM |
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They lose money on iTunes. The only way it makes them money is if people who use iTunes then go buy an iPod.
Just seems to me that Apple would want as many formats as possible to play on iPods. This would increase their sales and make them more money while taking pressure away from their iTunes money pit. That said, I really hate Real. The company sucks, as does their software and file formats. I might actually buy an iPod if it played WMA. But it doesn't. So I bought an iRiver and I love it. It has more features than an iPod, is cheaper than an iPod, and is just as small as an iPod. Granted, it has a pretty crappy interface, but I'll give up the trendy touch wheel for a boat load of features and file formats and one hundred bucks less. |
| #2 By 6859 (206.156.242.36) at 7/29/2004 3:27:57 PM |
| If I were Apple, I'd take a different stance: I'd pump that news up as being proof of the extensibility and cross-platform abilities of the iPod. Then use that tactic to sell more...you guessed it...iPods, which is where the real money is. |
| #3 By 6859 (206.156.242.36) at 7/29/2004 4:43:30 PM |
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I would make the machine compatible with anything, but leave that up to those who wish to invalidate the warranty. If they want to put WMA on it or OGG or whatever, that's fine. Make the tool to allow such, but specifically state in the EULA that nothing other than iTunes is supported and you get no support for non-standard configuration or use.
Frankly, nobody should care if it's an iTunes holder or a generic MP3 box, especially not Apple. And no, I'm not Apple...I can see beyond my front door. They're awefully myopic sometimes. |
| #4 By 3653 (63.162.177.143) at 7/29/2004 4:59:17 PM |
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Apple isn't the number one music download service. They SOLD 100 million songs in 13 months... where companies like Rhapsody have 11 million songs downloaded by PAYING customers every MONTH.
Read for yourself... apple @ 100 million over a period of 13 months... http://www.apple.com/itunes/100million/ and that 100 million INCLUDES 5 million from a failed attempt to give away 100 million songs via Pepsi http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/07/28.5.shtml Rhapsody @ 11 million in the month of June http://www.rhapsody.com/about.jsp?sect=press&subsect=release&page=rhap11millstreams070103 Apple is only number one at hype and at manipulating clueless reporters. |
| #5 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 7/29/2004 5:08:32 PM |
| Will nobody defend Apple? |
| #6 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 7/29/2004 5:20:39 PM |
| Apple may not be making money on iTunes itself, but there still is a revenue stream. At roughly 75 million downloads per year, that's still $7.5M revenue (10¢/song, isn't it? And assuming no downloads are freebies), which, although not much, should help to defray the costs of running the site. I suppose it's arguable, though, that they could easily sell $7.5 million more iPods per year if the device were compatible with other formats and stores... so myopic, yes. |
| #7 By 8273 (131.107.3.84) at 7/29/2004 8:36:41 PM |
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Apple has now, in my eyes, officially dropped to a new low. I have never been a big fan of their's - in college I ran a mac lab so I am not unfamiliar with them. A month or two I started thinking about getting an iPod for my BMW, I was ready for my 15000 mile oil change, so I called up the dealer. The response: they don't have any, not because of great demand, but because Apple made only a few hundred of the adaptors, so there are not many to be had. I then have my name put on a waiting list. When I have the car in for the oil change, the mechanic tells me that I cannot get it installed. Why? Because I paid the extra $6000 for the 3.0 version of the car, and it does not work with it. OK - this is part BMW's fault for building a crappy radio that cannot be pulled out and replaced (ripping out the radio on a Z4 is nearly impossible), but Apple did not do much to advertise this fact.
Now Apple is complaining about how somebody managed to get their tools working with their hardware (excuse me - my hardware if I were to buy one)? Nobody complained when Apple integrated WMA into iTunes (don't get me started on what a steaming pile iTunes is - if it were not for a few exclusives they have, I would not use it), but when somebody else tries to make their software work with Apple's tools, that is evil? I look around on the net at /., ipodlounge, etc. and you see people cheering Apple on. Now suppose Microsoft did this, that somebody tried to get MP4 working on the new portable media centers. Everybody would be cheering that they defeated the evil of Redmond by putting other software on there, and if Microsoft claimed they were going to use the DCMA, the natives would be outside the gates with pitchforks and fire. These are the same sites that don't want Apple to turn on WMA support on iPods (even though it is built-into the hardware), and Apple should refuse to users that are asking for it - because hey, who wants choice, right? Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of Real's - their crap is not allowed anywhere on my computer (I uninstalled it, and I still get popups from them), but Apple is just digging their hole a little deeper with each passing day. |
| #8 By 8556 (12.217.111.74) at 7/29/2004 10:28:33 PM |
| Apple has a 22% profit margin on iPods. The profit from iTunes in unknown. Even if it is only a few pennies per tune millions of pennies add up to a lot of dollars. Apple has a right to protect their technology even if all compressed music sounds like crap. |
| #9 By 3653 (68.54.230.116) at 7/29/2004 11:34:55 PM |
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bobsireno, where did you get that 22% profit statistic? that sounds awfully low. For software, the profit margin is usually 50-80%. And for apple hardware, I would imagine its AT LEAST 20%. And for the highly sought after ipod, I would have imagined much higher.
#10 Phaedrus - "nobody bought the songs" I call BS. They DID buy the specified rights to the songs... just like with iTunes where you buy the specified rights to the song. Rhapsody songs have limits, and so do iTunes' songs. You didn't think you were free to do anything you wanted with those itune songs did you? http://www.apple.com/legal/terms/itunes/service.html Currently limited to THREE computers, and get this... --------------------------------------- d. You acknowledge that some aspects of the Service, Products, and administering of the Usage Rules entails the ongoing involvement of Apple. Accordingly, in the event that Apple changes any part of the Service or discontinues the Service, which Apple may do at its election, you acknowledge that you may no longer be able to use Products to the same extent as prior to such change or discontinuation, and that Apple shall have no liability to you in such case. --------------------------------------- So, when RIAA pushes on apple... and apple decides to not allow you to put the songs on computer #2 and #3... you are SOL. |
| #10 By 2332 (65.221.182.2) at 7/30/2004 12:40:18 AM |
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Guys, iTunes loses money. This is a fact acknowledged by Jobs himself:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/kevinmaney/2004-01-20-piracy_x.htm Jobs admits iTunes loses money. |
| #11 By 2332 (65.221.182.2) at 7/30/2004 9:27:19 AM |
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#17 - Unless you're claiming that USA Today is lying about what Jobs said, it clearly states:
"Jobs admits iTunes loses money." Last paragraph, second sentence. If you do a quick search for "iTunes loses money" on Google you will find dozens of other sources that say the same thing. |
| #12 By 8556 (12.217.173.227) at 7/30/2004 10:11:56 AM |
| #14 The profit figure was published recently in the Wall Street Journal. You ar correct in that I may have listed the profit margin published for Mac's. In that case the iPod pulls in 24%. |
| #13 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 7/30/2004 10:56:58 AM |
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SoylentGreen - BMW is German for Nickel & Dime you to death. :-)
Besides, I think I'd rather have XM radio than an iPod. |
| #14 By 8273 (207.46.238.138) at 7/30/2004 1:49:57 PM |
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#16 - I am not talking about hacking the hardware, making mods to do it something that it was not designed to do. The cell phone argument does not fit here. You are paying part of the cost for the phone, the provider pays for another part. The contract is where they make up for their portion of the cost of the phone, and for the non-prepay type then they make their money for the 1-2 year that they trap you in the contract. The reason it does not fit is because you are not forced into their service, the iTunes store. I can provide my own service by ripping CDs and downloading them onto an iPod - no more Apple involved once I make that initial purchase. If I understand how Real does it, they just devised a way to create m4p files, I assume that they would have preferred to simply sell mp3 and bypass Apple altogether (both in the sense that they would not have these threats of legal action, but also they would have one file that would work on all devices), but they need a DRM solution. Is creating a mp3 file and putting it on an iPod wrong? The device is to play mp3 and m4p (and I believe aac), and that is what Real is doing, providing an m4p file. Therefore downloading a m4p file from Real is doing with the device what I want if I bought one - playing files it was designed to.
#21 - If I remember, you have a 3'er. You should have looked at Porsche or Merc, talk about .05 and .10 (hey my dealer did throw in the floormats for free!). And I am not a fan of XM, good idea, but I wanted an iPod simply so that I could listen to what I wanted when I wanted. I rarely listen to the radio any more, just CDs... |
| #15 By 3653 (68.54.230.116) at 7/30/2004 8:01:27 PM |
| CDs? What are those. Can I download them from Kazaa? |
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