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Microsoft Helped Catch Sasser Creator-Police | |
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| Time: 11:52 EST/16:52 GMT | News Source: Reuters | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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Software giant Microsoft (Nasdaq:MSFT - news) had received anonymous tip-offs about the worm's creator and then contacted the Federal Bureau of Investigation and German police, Federau said. All three worked together to find the suspect. Federau said the man, who he described as a highly intelligent "computer freak" living with his parents, was arrested on Friday near the central German town of Rotenburg but was no longer in custody. Authorities did not know if the man had created all the versions of Sasser but said he had worked alone. | ||
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| #1 By 20505 (216.102.144.11) at 5/8/2004 8:21:02 PM |
| #1 - pish posh! put the guy in jail. |
| #2 By 12071 (203.217.76.227) at 5/9/2004 12:15:06 AM |
| #3 Yes zero tolerancy, after all, just look at what happened to the warez scene after a few major groups got busted and the main members were sent to jail.... oh that's right, they were just replaced with another group! Good try, it's not going to work, no point sending this guy to jail just to make you think you're safe. |
| #3 By 16797 (65.48.182.22) at 5/9/2004 1:39:00 AM |
| #5 oh, man.. hehehehe. |
| #4 By 135 (208.186.90.168) at 5/9/2004 2:58:10 AM |
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kabuki - If there is no penalty for commiting this crime, then how will we ever deter people?
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| #5 By 12071 (203.217.76.227) at 5/9/2004 7:46:56 AM |
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#7 Where did I say that there should be no penalty? I simply disagree with the whole "send him to jail" notion, i.e. I do not consider this to be a jailable offense. Will you sleep better at night knowing that this highly dangerous criminal is locked safely away behind bars? Will your systems be safer as a result?
And who is to say that jail is an adequate deterrent? |
| #6 By 7390 (63.211.44.114) at 5/9/2004 8:37:36 AM |
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I simply disagree with the whole "send him to jail" notion, i.e. I do not consider this to be a jailable offense. Will you sleep better at night knowing that this highly dangerous criminal is locked safely away behind bars? Will your systems be safer as a result?
Let me see, the amount of time and resources allocated to removing this virus must be in millions. He intentionally and with great pride created an atmophere of fear in our society. But heh...he meant well. With that kind of logic most white colar crimes would not be jailable offenses. Kids, forget walking into a bank with a gun. We have betters ways..use a computer (hyperboly). The criminals that commit "physical" crimes must be real idiots. The guys at Enron must love you. And who is to say that jail is an adequate deterrent? Should we then get rids of prisons since clearly since people are still commiting crimes even though we have jails? |
| #7 By 12071 (203.217.76.227) at 5/9/2004 10:41:29 AM |
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#10 "He intentionally and with great pride created an atmophere of fear in our society."
Fear? You don't think you might be over-exaggerating it just a teeny weeny little bit? I didn't see too many people in society living in fear, maybe your neighbourhood is different! "With that kind of logic most white colar crimes would not be jailable offenses." Depends on the crime. I don't believe that jail is the magic silver bullet solution no. Instead, with your kind of logic, we have people being sent to prison for highly dangerous crimes such as "possession of marijuana", wasting away tax payers dollars for what exactly? No, you're right, we should even jail people for j-walking... they're a menace to society! "The guys at Enron must love you." If you consider the managing directors of Enron to be on the same level as an 18yr old kid writing a virus - we may as well end the discussion here, as there really is little left to discuss. "Should we then get rids of prisons since clearly since people are still commiting crimes even though we have jails?" No I don't think we should get rid of prisons. They serve several puposes one of which is to keep dangerous criminals locked away - an 18yr old kid, a "computer freak", writing a virus to exploit a vulnerability in some software is hardly a dangerous criminal in my mind. However, and I'm sure that there have been many studies into this, prisons aren't for everyone. Yes there is a large percentage of people who go in and can be rehabilitated successfully but there is also quite a large proportion that cannot, for various reasons. Simply throwing people away into prison so that they are "out of sight and out of mind" isn't changing anything, in fact, you're probably making it worse as now they're a lot more pissed off than they were before. If a person is considered dangerous then appropriate steps should be taken to protect society from that person. That may or may not include prison, and it may or may not include additional councelling sessions or whatever it is that that person requires to be rehabilitated. Throwing everyone into prison costs every single tax payer money, now I don't know if you pay tax or not, but I would rather have my tax dollars go towards helping people with REAL problems and issues, not people who were caught in possession of weed or people who wrote some virus which someone else was stupid enough to run (yes I do realise that in THIS particular case, the virus did not require user intervention but nearly all the previous ones did, and they did far more damage than this one). This kid didn't write a virus to steal money out of your account, he wrote a virus that shutdown your Windows PC. All I'm saying is make the punishment fit the crime... and in this case, jail doesn't fit the crime! |
| #8 By 135 (208.186.90.168) at 5/9/2004 12:14:08 PM |
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kabuki - Hmm, let's see. He caused millions in dollars of damage and lost work throughout the world. But this isn't a jailable offense? We should just, uhh, slap him on the wrist tell him to get a job, move out of his parents basement.
"They serve several puposes one of which is to keep dangerous criminals locked away - an 18yr old kid, a "computer freak", writing a virus to exploit a vulnerability in some software is hardly a dangerous criminal in my mind." Wait a minute, he caused millions of dollars in damage. Whether or not he was dangerous, he caused damage, purposefully and maliciously. If I walk into a 7-11 and start dumping gallons of milk and soda pop on the floor, I'm not dangerous... It's just a few hundred dollars in damage and a small inconvenience. But don't you think the 7-11 is going to call the police on me? Now I go to the car dealership on Sunday while they are closed and set all their cars on fire. A few hundred thousand dollars in damage. But I'm not dangerous, I wasn't out to hurt people... I think I see the problem here, it's the same reason why you support piracy and a lack of copyrights. You think there is a difference between software/computers and the physical world. I think we've long grown past that time, as computers become more and more important in our society we need to start treating the environment seriously. |
| #9 By 135 (208.186.90.168) at 5/9/2004 6:49:08 PM |
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ClosedStandards - Let's be real here. The law isn't going to protect you, it's not going to stop this from happening. It's solely a deterance to promote responsible, reasonable people from committing the act.
If there are consequences to actions, people will generally think twice before doing the action. That's all I'm asking for. It's called Responsibility. I realize that term is no longer in vogue in our modern political discourse, but it's the basis of why we have laws. This post was edited by sodablue on Sunday, May 09, 2004 at 18:50. |
| #10 By 12071 (203.185.215.149) at 5/9/2004 9:23:17 PM |
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#12 "If I walk into a 7-11 and start dumping gallons of milk and soda pop on the floor, I'm not dangerous... It's just a few hundred dollars in damage and a small inconvenience. But don't you think the 7-11 is going to call the police on me?"
No, you've convinced me. You should be jailed for your offense because that sort of punishment fits the crime. Plus it will act as a fantastic deterrent for anyone else thinking about doing the same! "Now I go to the car dealership on Sunday while they are closed and set all their cars on fire. A few hundred thousand dollars in damage. But I'm not dangerous, I wasn't out to hurt people... " Would you be jailed for this offense or could you "get away" with a fine instead? I guess all of this is a matter of where you draw the line, in this particular case, is jail a suitable deterrent? Will jail provide the appropriate means for you to be rehabilitated or are you going to reoffend because jail did nothing to help solve the core issue of why you committed that crime in the first place? "I think I see the problem here, it's the same reason why you support piracy and a lack of copyrights." I support piracy? No no no, that's Microsoft, you have us confused! You have blinkers on as usual, you assume that if I speak out about something it must be because I support it, rather that perhaps it being support for that particular case. You don't see anything other than "virus author = jailable offense" and that's fine, we're all entitled to our own opinion on the subject. If I had it my way I wouldn't be jailing people for possession of marijuana, you do. #13 Send him to jail so that sodablue can feel that his systems are safe and so that it can deter all the other bored teenagers out there from doing similar things! #16 "virus writers should be protected from the law" Is this even a jailable offense in Germany? |
| #11 By 9589 (66.57.149.8) at 5/10/2004 7:26:56 AM |
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"Spokesman Detlef Ehrike said he is being investigated on suspicion of computer sabotage, which carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison," http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2004/05/09/teen_confesses_he_created_sasser_worm/ .
I wonder if this young man thought of the consequences of his actions. I bet the "lifers" at the prison where he will "reside" can wait to make him their freak. Don't do the crime if you cant' do the time! |
| #12 By 7390 (63.211.44.114) at 5/10/2004 9:56:59 AM |
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#18, Will jail provide the appropriate means for you to be rehabilitated or are you going to reoffend because jail did nothing to help solve the core issue of why you committed that crime in the first place?
umm..rehabiliation is not the first thing on my mind when it comes to criminals. This guy caused millions of dollars in damages and you want to slap him on wrist. No on is hear is saying that crossing the street againgt the light is jailable. And we could years arguing over what should and shouldn't fall into that category. This guy went out of his way to cause damage on as a large a scale as possible. Clearly he is a smart guy and was fully aware of what his actions would do. If intentionally causing millions of dollars in damage is not jailable offense then what is? *not physical damage but that of lost time/dollars/resources. |
| #13 By 12071 (203.217.76.227) at 5/10/2004 10:52:43 AM |
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#23 "rehabiliation is not the first thing on my mind when it comes to criminals"
Don't you think that perhaps it should be? Maybe not the 1st thing... but up there somewhere. Otherwise if we ignore rehabilitation, this guy is going to come out of prison and potentially write another virus... one that really does some damage... i.e. not in terms of restarting your pc or the time it takes for you or your sysadmin to download a patch (which you both should be doing already - after all wasn't the patch available for several weeks?)... but one that deletes files off your pc... one that encrypts files... one that mucks around with your MBR... etc etc... you know what I'm getting at, more serious damage.... THEN we're all going to be in real trouble! Sure companies have backups, but I doubt the same is true for the majority of home pc's (I make regular backups just incase). You and I see this sort of virus outbreak differently. You see this as some sort of major disaster that "created an atmophere of fear in our society". I see it as just another virus, that whilst annoying, just goes to show that people need to apply patches or secure their systems whilst they are testing those patches (or waiting for said patches). If this guy was really out to intentionally create "an atmophere of fear in our society", his virus would have done a lot more than just restart your pc! "This guy caused millions of dollars in damages and you want to slap him on wrist." No not a slap on the wrist. To be sarcastic, that sort of punishment is reserved for large corporations and people rich enough to pay for the right lawyers and to "donate" money to the appropriate people =) He committed a crime so he should be punished accordingly. My only comment on this is that I don't believe that the punishment should be a jail sentence. I don't think anything productive will come out of it. I believe that there are better sentences that can be handed down, what those may be are for the courts to decide. Yelling out "send him to jail" is a knee jerk reaction. "No on is hear is saying that crossing the street againgt the light is jailable." But simple possession of marijuana is. "Clearly he is a smart guy and was fully aware of what his actions would do." He did know what he was doing, before he wrote this virus he also wrote Netsky according to the reports, so he's had a fair amount of practise at perfecting his pet project. So yes, he should definetely be punished for it, no doubt about it. "If intentionally causing millions of dollars in damage is not jailable offense then what is?" As I said, given that he's been writing the Netsky and Sasser viruses (plus the various incarnations of both), this looks like more of a "let's see how many pc's I can infect" type of thing, rather than a malicious "let's see how many million dollars worth of damage i can create". If he really wanted to be malicious and if he was really out to cause as much monetary damage as possible, his virus would have done more than reset your pc. Having said all of that, I'm curious to know how this damage figure was arrived at. Similar algorithm to the one used to guesstimate the "cost of piracy (of software/music/movies/whatever)"? |
| #14 By 21203 (4.5.32.137) at 5/10/2004 11:06:11 AM |
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I must say that the undertones and hidden meanings in these posts absolutely astound me.
"No one should even talk about Microsoft vulnerabilities; they should realize that there's severe punishment for anyone for trying to understand these Microsoft vulnerabilities by writing code that takes advantages of them. " That's pretty harsh. You can talk about vulnerabilities all you want. There's a big difference between talking about a crime and acting on the crime. In fact that's precisely what you said ... only I'm certain that's not what you meant. |
| #15 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 5/10/2004 12:04:34 PM |
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kabuki - "He did know what he was doing, before he wrote this virus he also wrote Netsky according to the reports, so he's had a fair amount of practise at perfecting his pet project. So yes, he should definetely be punished for it, no doubt about it. "
Ok, I see your point. Yes, living in his parents basement and having to use Linux should be punishment enough. :-) |
| #16 By 2332 (216.41.45.78) at 5/10/2004 12:18:18 PM |
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Wow. I can't believe it. I agree with Kabuki. Somebody send a monkey with a thermometer down a hole to see if hell has frozen over.
I believe that jail should be reserved for people who are a physical danger to others. I do not believe in jail as a deterrent (because most of the time, it isn't), nor do I believe in it as a tool for punishment. It is not the job of a government to punish people. It is the job of a government to protect. If you claim that punishing people will decrease the likelyhood of the crime, and there by help to protect people in the society, then prove it. People whose crimes cause financial damage should be forced to repay what they stole (or caused to be lost), and if they are unable to do that they should be forced to work to repay it. In the case of this kid, he will never be able to repay such a large sum, so he will likely work for the rest of his life repaying it. |
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