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HP 'rejects' WMA iPod claims | |
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| Time: 09:50 EST/14:50 GMT | News Source: Macworld UK | Posted By: Byron Hinson | ||
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HP has no plans to support Windows Media Audio (WMA) in its forthcoming own-branded iPod product, contrary to earlier reports. HP product marketing manager Muffi Ghadali told Wired: 'We're not going to be supporting WMA for now." He said the company had chosen to work with the most popular digital music distribution service, and wanted to focus on a single format in order not to confuse customers. <%=GetPoll(86)%> | ||
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| #1 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 1/13/2004 11:31:51 AM |
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Apple CEO Steve Jobs dismissed the idea of repurposing Apple's music player to support other standards: "Why should we work with another music store when we are working with the Microsoft of music stores?"
Funny... the company is critical of Microsoft's business practices, but then delights in doing it themselves. And if Microsoft was truly "upset" about it, it's funny too, that they are now criticizing others for that about which they had been criticized in the past. Microsoft and others have declared that choosing to adopt the open standards-based AAC format... Hmmm... I don't think they were "upset" (if they were upset at all... did anyone ever say the word "upset" or anything like that?) about HP supporting the AAC format. If anything, it's about not supporting the WMA format. It may not be an "open standard," but it is an industry standard, supported by far more software packages and hardware devices than AAC. That the iPod won't support WMA isn't unfair, really--the consumer can still buy other players for Windows. But it would be nice if Apple supported WMA. Protect their market share they must. Just like many have predicted--if any other company were in Microsoft's shoes, they'd do the same. And here we have a perfect example. |
| #2 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/13/2004 3:46:59 PM |
| I'll second that, parker! |
| #3 By 3 (81.100.93.4) at 1/13/2004 4:14:48 PM |
| I'll third that |
| #4 By 2 (24.239.197.117) at 1/13/2004 4:35:25 PM |
| We haven't posted any iPod stories that haven't related to Microsoft/Windows recently. Calm down. |
| #5 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/13/2004 5:14:32 PM |
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Uh, Byron agrees that the article doesn't belong, yet he is the one that posted it? That's a bit odd.
Here's a good thought - if it comes from MacWorld, it probably makes no sense to put it on ActiveWin. As for the recently added poll - huh? "Are you bothered about having WMA support in the iPod?" How about "Should the iPod support WMA?" - Yes, No, Doesn't matter / Don't care. The way it is currently worded makes no sense, primarily because the iPod doesn't currently support WMA. |
| #6 By 3 (81.100.93.4) at 1/13/2004 5:38:01 PM |
| #8 - uh Byron said nothing about this article being in the wrong place, its in the right place - both sites. It contains both Apple and Microsoft related information. Just because an article comes from a Mac site doesn't mean it shouldn't be mentioned on a Windows/Microsoft related site same goes for news on this site appearing on larger Mac sites, difference is they don't tend to moan about it. |
| #7 By 3 (81.100.93.4) at 1/13/2004 6:31:44 PM |
| Feel free to mail the news in, if i can't find it or don't go looking for it i can't post it. I'm not against all this kind of news on here if its Windows and MS related, it should be here. |
| #8 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 1/13/2004 6:36:27 PM |
| What about the fact that general tech sites and Windows sites (NeoWin and WinInfo) are favoring it as well... It's a big story to the general tech market, and it's a big, big, big... freakin' HUGE story to the windows community (boy, PT's went over the edge; he's getting laughed at everywhere)... Hell, I've been better able to follow this story via Windows' sites rather than Mac sites. |
| #9 By 3 (81.100.93.4) at 1/13/2004 6:38:59 PM |
| But there are a few people here who don't agree with that Soda - they are all that matters, lets remember that. |
| #10 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/13/2004 6:40:50 PM |
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"#8 - uh Byron said nothing about this article being in the wrong place,"
"I'll third that " What was he third-ing? "If HP and the iPod won't do WMA, then this should be the last news article on this site for either product. Put future articles on ActiveMac and quit wasting our time. " Yeah, he was thirding that articles like this don't belong here. Why? Because they "[waste] our time." I wasn't putting words in your mouth, Byron. You said it yourself. |
| #11 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/13/2004 6:43:51 PM |
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Nice ad hominem, Byron. How 'bout this - why don't you justify the article's presense here rather than attacking, snidely, those who think it doesn't belong.
Also, if you are so even-handed, why don't you look for news about other players. You obviously care about the criticism, or you wouldn't respond to it. Why don't you make a better effort to not deal so much in Apple news on a Windows news site and minimize the critiques? |
| #12 By 3 (81.100.93.4) at 1/13/2004 6:44:02 PM |
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"If HP and the iPod won't do WMA, then this should be the last news article on this site for either product."
That's what I was "thirding" as you say. All that will go on the site after that are the Windows iTunes updates, just like they have in the past. "Uh, Byron agrees that the article doesn't belong, yet he is the one that posted it? That's a bit odd." I don't remember saying, the current and only article that matters shouldn't be on here, as it talks about WMA etc, keep trying. |
| #13 By 3 (81.100.93.4) at 1/13/2004 6:49:14 PM |
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#14 - Comments are all good, Criticism has never bothered me, certainly not here anyway where people seem to be going for degrees in it. Not all of us have the time to search for news all day long, thus mailing news in is better all round here.
As for "justifying it" here goes, it was talking about a new iPod from HP, that may/may not support Microsoft's WMA, this article states in all likelyhood it won't. It had Microsoft pieces, WMA pieces etc in it, thus relates to what this site has posted about over the last 4 years. Should cover it. Once again, if anyone has problems with content they can mail in, proper staff here tend to take notice of it more, and considering there hasn't been one proper complaint over any of the ipod news here I'm guessing very few people could care less. |
| #14 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 1/13/2004 7:22:50 PM |
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...and every person who voted "Yes, it's needed" but doesn't own an iPod or wouldn't consider one, what should we think of their "useless," "Unnecessary," and "inappropriate" postings?
...I don't think their votes should count waah, wahh, wah.... |
| #15 By 3 (81.100.93.4) at 1/14/2004 2:13:44 AM |
| Hate to have to sound like a broken record for everyone who can read here, but I'll say it again...mail in the news and we'll post it, I post iTunes news if it has a relation to Windows because thats what I use and thats news I find, if you read about other MP3 players or any other music player on Windows for that matter, mail in news of new relases and they get a mention too, it's not that hard, try it. |
| #16 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/14/2004 5:55:26 AM |
| lol, I love it when sites have "i'm compliant html/xhtml/css/rss/atom/<insert markup language here>" links, but when you follow the link, you discover that the validator rejects the page as invalid. I'm not picking on your link, halcyon, but when I clicked their valid XHTML link and discovered they don't have a fully valid page, it gave me a good laugh. |
| #17 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 1/14/2004 2:32:50 PM |
| Man, did you guys get up on the wrong side of the bed yesterday... and today? Is this really such a big deal? Maybe you should start your own news sites, if you don't like this one. |
| #18 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/14/2004 5:01:29 PM |
| Well, AW did a good job of removing this newsday from the front page. Perhaps they couldn't take the criticism? |
| #19 By 3339 (64.160.58.135) at 1/14/2004 6:16:32 PM |
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There are plenty of codecs and devices that support AAC....
But, yes, few can play Apple's Fairplay. That doesn't make AAC Apple's format though, does it? That is all Halcyon said: "AAC and MP3 aren't Apple formats." Does the fact that other players can play WMA make it NOT MS's format? |
| #20 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/14/2004 6:53:46 PM |
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Dean, there is something to be said of listening to your top users. I come to this site several times a day and have maintained the behavior for about three years (I became a non-lurker about 2 yrs ago). I'm pretty dang familiar with the site and with its problems. While I'm not saying that AW should do what I want because I'm one of the top visitors, I am saying that they should take notice and carefully consider my statements.
None of us pay for it. Well, that's not entirely accurrate. Do you pay for network television? Yes. You pay with your time. This site is advertising driven. By visiting and clicking on ad links, I generate revenue for the site. That means that I do pay for it. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I, and many others, happen to have an opinion that is in opposition to yours. |
| #21 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/14/2004 6:55:36 PM |
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dkg,
Unless we do a lot of moaning, probably other than the Google toolbar, we won't see much software/hardware updates news from non-Microsoft or non-Apple. Keep in mind that he who posted this article is the same who wrote the grammatically poor and nearly content devoid article "Me and my Mac" a few months ago. Oh, and that article was linked to from AW too. What a surprise. This post was edited by BobSmith on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 at 18:58. |
| #22 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/14/2004 8:36:10 PM |
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A note on AW staff...
They are quite a varied bunch of people...programmers, graphics guys, end users, etc. I'll bet that some of the staff agree with me (i'm sure at least one does, pretty sure on at least one other), and other disagree. Byron and I have been known to disagree on things as have Bob Stein and I. We've had lengthy email and IM sessions about site issues. So, some may laugh, others may disagree, others may agree. Not too long ago I was engaged in an argument with a collegue about project management styles. He said that I was the contrarian in the argument. I found that rather funny, because it's difficult to have an argument without two opposing points of view. He was just as much a contrarian as I. In like manner, when you mock me, you're no better than me when I mock the staff who disagree with me. In fact, I'd say you're worse, because you are mocking me for mocking them. Kind of ironic, I think. As for your 99% theory, I'm not sure that 99% of visitors to this site would agree on almost anything non-trivial. Do we live on planet earth? Probable agreement. Is Microsoft a software company? Hmm, I'll bet at least 1% would disagree on that. ;-) In like manner, I think that at least 1% will disagree with your assessment of this site's administration. As for how many share my opinion, we know, at the very least, that dkg and parker agree with me. Is it probable that at least 10% of the other visitors to the site agree with me? I'd say that's pretty probable? How 'bout 50%? Hmm, don't know about that. I'm still, though, amused that you didn't refute the substance of most of my post. You din't touch on whether staff should listen to me. You didn't touch on advertising revenue. You decided to make a personal attack rather than addressing most of my argument. Thanks for the lesson in maturity. I'll keep it in mind for future reference. This post was edited by BobSmith on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 at 20:40. |
| #23 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/14/2004 8:38:04 PM |
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dkg,
Thanks for the defense. |
| #24 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/15/2004 3:06:24 AM |
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Revenue. I'm not privvy to the numbers, so I don't know how much money is made via the ads on this site. I do know that neowin.net is profitable, and that it's only revenue stream is from ads. If they can do it, I'm sure AW can too.
Phrased another way, if the ads generate no revenue, why are they here? Ad revenue is typically based on site usage. When I use the site, I'm contributing to site usage, and, as a result, the ad revenue. So, yes, I do pay with my time. I've also contributed to this site by, but not limited to, sending in news, moderating chats (we haven't had any in a few months, but used to have them weekly), moderating the comments, alpha and beta testing the forums, proofing site content, and doing code updates. Whether you see it or not, I've put a good deal of time into this site and the other Active Network properties. To whom do we listen? You are right in that we should listen to the types of users you mentioned. You neglected to mention a good deal of other users, though. By your "majority rules" perspective, all users should be heard. Period. So if you're helpful or a pain in the neck, you're voice is as equal as anyone else's. Since you don't know what everyone else's opinion is on the matter, how do you know that you aren't in the minority? How do you know that 90% of the lurkers don't agree with me? Perhaps they don't care enough to complain, but, if given the chance, they'd prefer my way? You don't know that. When you state that things should remain as they are, since you have no data, you're as bad as what you accuse me of. Worse, in fact, since you seem to understand democracy, yet you still favor yourself over the unasked majority. Curious. If you re-read my post above, I never said that my way should become the law of AW. I said that I've been here for quite a while and that I should be listened to. This makes a lot of sense. Quite often companies will give deference to their longest and most loyal clients over newer clients. I'm one of the oldest remaining members and one of the most loyal (if measured by site hits and post count). As such, I should be listened to. dkg. Hmm, I don't always agree with his mode of presentation, but I often very much agree with his posts. I suspect that many others here do as well. He usually presents himself with reasonable agruments and backs that with data. I could easily imagine sodablue, RMD, n4cer, PeterTHX, macrosslover, mooresa, and daz, to name a few, agreeing with many of his posts. The "best" users. That's your word. I didn't state it. I didn't imply it. I was simply producing a contrapositive to your 99% claim. Since parker and dkg expressed similar sentiments about this site, I knew they agreed with me. It is for this reason, and no other, that I mentioned them. Bias. Hmm, you've probably never read Byron's articles if you can't see bias in him. If you can't see anti-anything-that-is-not-Microsoft bias in daz (aka Chad Meyers, author of the ASP.NET version of the forums), you probably haven't read any of his posts. Bias can be displayed as action or inaction. When you actively post content about one product (the iPod) and choose to be inactive in looking for content on other portable music players that interact with Windows, you are showing bias. Most interesting is that iPod has had several articles, but Creative's Nomad line never has. In May of 2003, they were tied for marketshare. If Byron, or any of the staff, want to be unbiased, they should seek to show a balanced set of news. Otherwise, even if not active, it is still bias. |
| #25 By 1845 (67.161.212.73) at 1/15/2004 3:06:49 AM |
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(continued from previous)
Dirty laundry. Bob Stein, Byron, Jonathan Tigner, and Todd all know my email address. Most of the probably have my cell too In fact, Bob Stein and I emailed a bit last week and IM'ed too. If he has any issues with what I post on this site, he, and the others I've mentioned, have a very great ability to let me know it. Ignoring it. I'm a beta tester. My most recent stuff that I can talk about was Microsoft Office 2003. I posted every problem I found. I argued with the developers when they closed my bugs with "by design" without a good enough explanation of why the design was chosen. As a reward, they gave me a free copy of Office Pro...for being one of the top 60 testers worldwide. Another software company recently gave me a free subscription to their software in token appreciation for me exhaustive and argumentative feedback. My point in saying that is this - I state my opinion whenever I feel it is appropriate. If I don't like something, I let the vendor know it. The wise vendors will listen to feedback, even if it is very negative. Why? It is through feedback that the product is improved. The mistake isn't ignoring those who complain. The mistake is not addressing the complaints. To address a complaint doesn't mean roll over and do whatever the complaintant wants, but it does mean to show respect to the person who is helping you to improve your product, think carefully about what he has said, and explain to him why or why not his request/bug will/will not be fixed. Those who provide feedback are among the most useful to a vendor of any product. |
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