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Microsoft sees Linux kettle, calls it black | |
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| Time: 09:42 EST/14:42 GMT | News Source: E-Mail | Posted By: Brian Kvalheim | ||
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In a remarkable pot-calling-the-kettle-black incident, Microsoft has attacked Asian plans to build an open-source operating system as anti-competitive. In response to the multi-million-pound development and promotion deal signed by the Japanese, Chinese and South Korean governments, Microsoft's director of government affairs in Asia, Tom Robertson, told Reuters: "We'd like to see the market decide who the winners are in the software industry. Governments should not be in the position to decide who the winners are." | ||
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| #1 By 11131 (160.81.221.42) at 9/9/2003 10:04:17 AM |
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Is M$ scared of a little competition??
Alister |
| #2 By 182 (208.224.173.101) at 9/9/2003 12:18:31 PM |
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I concur, GalacticJello.
Government mandate is the very definition of a monopoly. Perhaps a socialist monopoly, but nevertheless, a monopoly. It's anticompetitive, yes, depending on the details. It's ALL aobu thte details. |
| #3 By 3339 (66.219.95.6) at 9/9/2003 12:22:34 PM |
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"Do you really think any company wishing to do business with those three governments will be allowed to use whatever OS they choose?"
Of course they will. The government is funding development. That's it. They aren't mandating or legislating OS usage. The money is going to Fujitsu, Sharp, Mitsubishi, etc... Do you think all of a sudden these countries are going to police the marketplaces of their populace and destroy pirated Windows software NOW? Come on. No mandate whatsoever. Do you think it actually might become a concern of Microsoft's to make their products and file formats interoperable with others? This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 at 13:16. |
| #4 By 3339 (66.219.95.6) at 9/9/2003 2:45:02 PM |
| Oh, and by the way, who is also working with Red Flag Linux? No less than HP, BEA, and Oracle. So let's see: you have the open source community, every tech giant in the Pacific rim, HP, BEA, and Oracle... all of the Linux vendors, and all of the Unix and/or Linux vendors (Sun, Apple, IBM, HP, SCO, Novell, etc...)... Oh, the horror! What an evil monopoly! Just about everyone in the tech industry gets to do business with these governments! No one gets to compete! Oh wait... the only company that supports a monoculture is MS. |
| #5 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 9/9/2003 3:23:43 PM |
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sodajerk - "Oh wait... the only company that supports a monoculture is MS. "
Why are your arguments always Anything-But-Microsoft? |
| #6 By 10896 (65.213.122.66) at 9/9/2003 3:45:03 PM |
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From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. -- Karl Marx.
Any wonder that Red Flag Linux is popular in China, as the company is owned by the son of the former premier of China and was devloped by funding from the Chinese Communist party. A communist government and a communistic operating system. How surprising!!! |
| #7 By 3653 (209.149.57.116) at 9/9/2003 4:31:56 PM |
| billmac - and the ABMers love it without even seeing it. Typical. |
| #8 By 3339 (66.219.95.6) at 9/9/2003 5:34:22 PM |
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No one has mandated D!CK yet. Not even in the government! And you have them banning ALL non-Linux OSes for the public sector. Laughable. As for your claim that MS isn't a monopoly: that's pathetic. Yes, I'm proof. Great argument.
soda, is this your only defense now? Are you suggesting that providing R&D funds to everyone in the tech sector except MS (because of their own product decisions) is monopolistic? That MS isn't about a monoculture? Without you actually disputing these two latter points, I will assume you concede these points to be true... hence, the ad hominem and deflections. |
| #9 By 3339 (66.219.95.6) at 9/9/2003 5:51:06 PM |
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parker, you try to refute me by quoting a Sun employee making a comment that is set in the future ("AS") and which makes no sense?
""As China decides to ban software not developed in China, which is another way of saying, 'goodbye Microsoft', that means Linux, that means StarOffice -- the stuff we give away free -- can replace all of Microsoft's Word,'' Gage said in an interview." Wait, China's banning non-Chinese software, but Sun (from Stanford... Palo Alto, CA) is going to sell to China... wait! "As"... As what? This whole statement is retarded, and this is nothing. Certainly, no proof of anything. Read the WSJ or the NYT... Bring me a news source from China. Don't quote from Sun employees not making sense off of a poorly written ZNET uk piece of fluff. Yes, China has already made some purchasing decisions to choose Red Flag over MS (this was many months ago) and yes, these three countries are planning a summit and a fund to develop OS software... However, not a single one of these countries has proposed or enacted any legislation to mandate anything... not for the government, and definitely not for the public. Yes, you boys, are the ones who are jumping off the conspiracy cliff on this one. This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 at 17:58. |
| #10 By 7390 (63.211.44.114) at 9/9/2003 7:26:53 PM |
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Mr Jerk, let me get this straight. China is developing an OS for it's own use and you think that it won't mandate that any company doing business with it should use this OS?
You mean to tell us then when contracts are awarded to vendors that the OS being used isn't going to play a factor? Give me some of what you are drinking cause I see that it numbs the senses. I am surprised that you found time away from licking Steve Jobs' boots to make comments here. |
| #11 By 3339 (66.219.95.6) at 9/9/2003 7:59:20 PM |
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I see you are going to Chinese sites now, parker, but you still haven't found that ban on non-Linux OSes yet, huh?
Red Hook, how is China going to mandate that companies and countries doing business with it use Linux? Is Japan doing so, are you really going to project this fate (a ban of all public, private, and gov't use of MS) on them? Is Russia? The US? Europe? Well, those are the top business partners of China. "You mean to tell us then when contracts are awarded to vendors that the OS being used isn't going to play a factor?" For development and OS usage? Absolutely. Shouldn't it? But how does consideration in the awarding of contracts equal a ban by three different countries on (what, can you conspiracists even agree, is it...) non-Linux OSes? Microsoft OSes? non-Chinese? what is it? Let's get things straight. The initiative was started by Japan. It has only set aside a fund of about 85 million dollars ( -- I think that was the bill for cleaning up the MSN litter in NYC). They have not chosen an OS yet because they have not even met yet. S. Korea and China have also agreed to the summit (don't know why you all keep pointing to China -- oh, I know--you get to call them despotic commies guilt free). The funds are going to commercial corporations. Those already on board are all JAPANESE (it was their idea and not China's and they haven't met yet); they are Fujitsu, Hitachi, Matsushita Electric Industrial (Panasonic), and NEC. There are others and it is open to other corporations. The summit is meant for many areas besides government use; in fact, it is primarily designed for these CORPORATIONS to pool resources for developing an OS for their consumer electronic devices. So, despite understanding that Japan isn't the freest society either, are you all claiming Japan is being communistic? S. Korea? That there isn't all the opportunity in the world for any corporation to be involved as long as they develop according to the chosen standards? Do you think this summit is any different from how Japan has done business with their own big five for the last 50 years? Why is it a problem now? This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 at 20:02. |
| #12 By 3339 (66.219.95.6) at 9/9/2003 8:46:04 PM |
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Yes, but we all knew about this two months ago, it does allow for exceptions, and it does not have any requirements re: Linux, Microsoft, or Open Source. And since when does nationalism equal monopolism? It is simply a domestic trade restriction which WE, the Mighty Capitalistic United States, and many others impose on many products.. hell, we even require FOREIGN countries to only use AMERICAN products (Bananas).
So please explain why 85 million dollars from Japan should have anyone crying for Microsoft. |
| #13 By 3339 (66.219.95.6) at 9/9/2003 9:10:20 PM |
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You kicked my butt?
You dumb@sses keep ignoring the fact that this was Japan's initiative and China simply signed on. You keep ignoring the fact that 2 of the 3 parties represent the most capitalistic and free societies in the Pacific Rim. You keep ignoring that they haven't met or discussed what standards they will choose. You keep ignoring that this government summit does not have any legisaltion or mandate attached to it. You keep ignoring the fact that any business who wants to develop to the standards can participate--the only company that doesn't want to and by which is negating their participation is Microsoft. You keep ignoring that it's a piddly little sum. Yes, I know that for many months now China has been moving to restrict its PURCHASING POLICIES to domestic software. What about a government purchasing policy equals legislation mandating the usage of one OS or the other? What about China affects Japan and S. Korea (ALL of the money is currently going to Japanese companies; I began by speaking of this summit, the fund attached to it, its goals -- which do not include any mandates for any of the countries) Particularly when you can qualify for exemptions and no one knows the status of the plan because even China concedes the plan isn't feasible currently. There is no legislation or mandate for the usage of any particular OS. Funds are being distributed to PRIVATE CORPORATIONS. The Summit is open to participation. Nothing has been determined yet. And was started and is primarily the concept of JAPAN, NOT China. And you boys keep diddling yourself with the conspiracy theory that Microsoft is being banned in China (It's Japan's plan, 1d1ots! Even if Linux is picked, even if China uses Red Flag Linux -- they are developing interoperability standards which are Open Source for commercial and governmental use at the motivation of Japanese companies!) because of a 3 nation Summit being conducted by Japan? And you kicked my butt. Uh, huh. Please say something that demonstrates a valid criticism by Microsoft. Please. Anyone. Please do. This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 at 21:12. |
| #14 By 3339 (66.219.95.6) at 9/10/2003 12:46:59 PM |
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pursell: "What YOU fail to realize is that Japan is a democracy, China is not." No, that's pretty f'in fundamental to my ideas. What you fail to realize is that this is Japan's idea.
"If they decide that one OS is state sanctioned and all others are not, then that's a problem for capitalism and freedom." BUT THEY HAVEN"T! "Personally I don't see anything wrong with a government deciding to use one OS over the other, but only for government use." This isn't even the case: the case is they are developping standards for open source development. It won't be one OS. MS is simply pissed that it won't be their standard, their OSes, all of their products. Poor frickin MS. "If you believe that the Chinese government is benevolent, then you are in the clouds." WHO THE HELL SAID ANY SUCH THING? GalacticJello, get a copy of Adam Smith's "Theory of Moral Sentiment." Particularly since your entire little diatribe is not at all applicable to China, nor should someone attempt to cram down, okay extrapolate, such simplistic reasoning for a country that has never followed the principles you are speaking of... None of my points have anything to do with big government either (do you think 85 million US dollars is big government for Japan? You do realize that many orders of magnitude of more US dollars go to private American companies via the gov't, don't you?) "The unstated assumption is that somehow governments can undertake activities more successfully than individuals in the new areas that they enter - an idea that Friedman comprehensively shows to be false." By no means does Friedman show that in all areas the individual can be more successful than gov't. In most areas, yes, but Friedman isn't as overreaching as you are. I think I've had an extremely good foundation in economics. Why don't you read the book that is a follow up to the book that gives Friedmand all of his ideas, particularly since it's over 200 years ahead of Friedman and also since Smith pulled back from most of his earlier ideas and goes as far as to say that working for the social good can create more sustainable systems than competition. |
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