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Microsoft and the 'Savage Nation' | |
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||
| Time: 14:59 EST/19:59 GMT | News Source: CNET | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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MSNBC this week saved co-owner Microsoft from a huge embarrassment by firing Michael Savage after he launched into an antigay tirade on the air. Now the software maker is free to turn the page and return to business as usual. But, while the Redmond, Wash.-based company's handlers may be breathing a sigh of relief, the resolution of the Savage affair raises as many questions as it supposedly resolves. | ||
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| #1 By 20 (67.9.179.51) at 7/11/2003 3:07:22 PM |
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Actually, the guy was personally insulting Savage and hurling his own brand of racial slurs, so Savage responded in kind as a personal assault against an individual.
Historically, he's mainly pro-gay, or at least agnostic and only really has a problem with the liberal political gay establishment (much like he has a problem with other liberal establishments). MSNBC did the right thing, I'm not arguing their decision, I just want the facts to be apparent because the media has taken liberty with slamming and smearing Savage, one of the most popular talk radio hosts. And since the print and TV media hates talk radio hosts for a number of reasons (political, not to mention market competition), their inherent bias in reporting this matter is cause for criticism. |
| #2 By 20 (67.9.179.51) at 7/11/2003 4:11:53 PM |
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#2: I agree. My problem is with offensive people and sexual braggards, both hetero and homosexual. I usually don't watch Will and Grace because I don't like people talking about sexual conquests like it's nothing. I also don't watch Sex in the City, and rarely watch Friends for the same reasons (though Friends is generally more tame).
#3: Did I say I was a Michael Savage fan? Have I heard his show? Yes. Have I listened for more than 5 minutes? On occasion. Would I consider myself a fan, though? No. He is uncouth and has no debating style. He just yells and screams at people who debate him. I listen to Rush when I want political commentary, not Savage. I listen to Hannity when I want to hear debate because Hannity has more opposing views on his show than any other host I've yet heard or seen. In fact, I think he has Al Sharpton on today if I heard him right the other day. Rush nor Savage would ever have Al Sharpton on their shows. But, it's interesting you try to point me out as some type of pariah. It's a typical liberal tactic to somehow shame or discredit people. Which is ironic since liberals falsely identify themselves as people of "diversity" or non-biggots-- that is, unless you have a different viewpoint, or you're not a liberal. (edit for some typos) This post was edited by daz on Friday, July 11, 2003 at 16:13. |
| #3 By 20 (67.9.179.51) at 7/11/2003 5:01:05 PM |
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#5: More pigeon-holeing linuxhippie. Talk about broad-minded.
Just go ahead and keep stereotyping and pigeon-holeing, it only makes you look more ignorant. Thankfully, you know nothing about me, so it just makes you look all the more silly. |
| #4 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 7/11/2003 5:03:44 PM |
| #2, I sort of agree--one of my best friends from college is gay, and his increased disclosure of his sexual conquests over time started to get disgusting (if not inappropriate). It really wasn't as much about hearing gay sex stories as it was hearing *any* close friend go into detailed unsolicited commentary about his or her previous night, gay or straight. |
| #5 By 9156 (192.55.140.2) at 7/11/2003 5:27:59 PM |
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If you choose to live that type of lifestyle it isn’t something you have to advertise and have parades over. If gay people want to be treated normal, act normal. There aren’t heterosexual parades, why should there be homosexual parades? Gay people want the rights of everyone else so they say, but when someone exercises the right to freedom of speech and they disagree with someone who is gay then they must be banned? I don’t think that should be the case. A gay person can have a parade and shout and yell about how being gay is good, acceptable but when someone shouts and yells about how being gay is bad and unacceptable they don’t get fair treatment to say the least. Is the new law, you can have freedom of speech as long as no one disagrees with you?
The squeaky wheel is getting the grease so to speak. When there is a gay parade the strait people don’t complain and say it’s wrong. But if there was a straight parade think of the mess the gay community would raise on any city that allowed it? Hence forth, whoever makes the most noise gets the attention. |
| #6 By 2459 (69.22.78.116) at 7/11/2003 6:56:18 PM |
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MSNBC has done more anti-MS stories than I can count.
AFAIK, MS has no editorial control over MSNBC. It was likely NBC News that fired Savage. MS only handles the MSNBC website properties. Unless that was your point, and you were saying how bad CNET is if its employees can never criticize its shareholders. :-) This post was edited by n4cer on Friday, July 11, 2003 at 19:00. |
| #7 By 2332 (65.221.182.2) at 7/11/2003 6:59:30 PM |
| Rush is better than Savage? Hardly. |
| #8 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 7/11/2003 7:22:09 PM |
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Here's the actual clip...
http://www.eastcoastbob.com/ It was a practical joke call, he's got a whole list of other ones he's made to Larry King, Wolf Blitzer, etc.. He mentioned some "Don and Mike" show which apparently has something to do with gays, I don't know for sure, never heard of it... At that point Savage lit into his anti-gay tirade. I just felt I had to do a bit of research and find out the truth of what happened, since it appears daz is here doing his usual right-wing whitewash coverup to try to blame this on liberals. |
| #9 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 7/11/2003 7:33:13 PM |
| RMD - Rush is better at lying with a straight face? |
| #10 By 3339 (66.219.95.6) at 7/11/2003 7:40:52 PM |
| soda - Rush is better because... he's a Mac user. Just kidding!! Savage and Rush are both morons. |
| #11 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 7/11/2003 8:15:26 PM |
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Just to corroborate Sodablue’s story, Bob Foster (the caller on whom Savage lost it) claims he is actually a fan of Savage’s show and never intended to get him fired:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/07/09/MN158024.DTL And actually, his favorite show which he was trying to plug (the Don and Mike show) sort of makes fun of gays (http://www.radiogodsforum.net/newfaq5.htm; read below “5.02 – The Final Word”). So Daz, Sodablue is right--they weren't "racial slurs" or anything of the sort. The whole call was a bit weird, and you would think someone who has been on the air as long as Savage has would have been able to handle it without losing it. Not to stand behind Savage, but his point about being stifled because a lot of people don’t agree with his non-PC views is somewhat accurate—from the same article, “Perlstein said he supports Savage's rights, but not on public airwaves….” In other words, you can have your views, but if they’re different than mine, you shouldn’t be allowed to share them with the nation. At the same time, Savage should know well that there *are* limits on Free Speech, and also that his comments really helped no one. Hey, Sodablue, let me guess--The Patriot isn't on your radio's presets, is it? :) Nice to see you again, Sodajerk... thought you had disappeared, there.... |
| #12 By 20 (67.9.179.51) at 7/11/2003 8:36:10 PM |
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First, you guys are horribly ignorant for judging me because of what I happen to listen to.
It just shows the hypocrasy of liberals how they criticize everyone else for being biggots, when they themselves are the worst kind. Second, not that you a-holes deserve any response, but I do happen to listen to National Pravda Radio every morning and I switch between NPR and a local radio show on the way home. Some nights I'll listen to Savage between commercials (or NPR's equivalent) Third, sodablue likes proving me wrong by agreeing with me and proving what I said. As usual (like in the tax debate), nothing in the link he provided contradicted anything I said. According to Savage, on his radio show the day after the incident, he stated that after the guy was cut off, he was under the impression they went to commercial. The caller, however, was only cut off from live air, but Savage could still hear the man in his earpiece. The man began to levvy many personal and racially offensive comments against Savage, who returned the insults in kind. Immature? Absolutely. Worthy of a firing? Absolutely. Makes Savage anti-gay? No. Not if you take his comments in context with all the other things he's said. But then, as proven for about the 15th straight debate in a row, neither Sodablue nor the rest of you are interested in the facts of the matter, just the emotion and the allusions to misbehavior and any chance to bash on the Right, no matter how false or incorrect the claims. I'm not defending Savage, I'm just telling you the facts (which Soda always seems to mistake for something else) |
| #13 By 20 (67.9.179.51) at 7/11/2003 8:42:20 PM |
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#20: I never said Savage was tolerable, in fact, I know he's intollerable which is why I don't listen to him frequently. I only listen to him when NPR is spreading mistruths, and the local show is about sports or some other boring topic. Or, sometimes, when a big story breaks, Savage usually has something interesting to say about it.
As far as racial slurs, only Bob and Michael and maybe the produce know what was said after the on-air microphone was cut off. Savage said that Bob hurled such insults at him (probably in a joking tone, but are racial slurs ever funny or joking?) and Savage was so infuriated, that he blew his top, and the subject matter just happened to be about gays. Again, I'm not defending him or in any way attempt to make what he did seem right, I'm just telling you the full story that you won't hear in the regular media. Savage may be lying, sure. He may even be exaggerating. I've heard him blow his top on callers before, but I've never heard him fling racial or homosexual biggoted comments out before, which leads me to believe that this was an extra special case. |
| #14 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 7/11/2003 8:43:15 PM |
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Daz, c'mon, man... how can you accuse of being hypocrites for "judging you," then judge us as being liberals (?!?!, at least in my case...)?
The transcript of the conversation was recorded for the world to read, and the only comment made by Foster (to my knowledge) is that he said something about teeth, apparently in reference to Savage's teeth. There were no racial slurs... from where are you getting that? |
| #15 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 7/11/2003 8:48:46 PM |
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You're right, Savage may be lying... it's tough to say what was said off-the-air. And you're right that there was no excuse for it and that he was rightly fired... but we can only go off of what we know. This Foster guy is a troublemaker, true, but I don't know if I buy the story that Savage had a lot of off-air conversation with Foster. From the clip, it sounds very much as if the call had just started while on the air:
http://www.eastcoastbob.com/savageair.mp3 |
| #16 By 2332 (65.221.182.2) at 7/11/2003 11:38:43 PM |
| #26 - amen. :-) |
| #17 By 40 (216.68.161.50) at 7/12/2003 10:34:43 AM |
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I heard the whole clip, and what new is playing is not correct, the caller made claims to being from MBLA (Man Boy Love Association) and stated that children should be able to make decision to have sex at age 4, but no one is playing that at all.
The funny part is an NPR reporter about a year ago wished that a Republican would get Aids or that his grandkids would, (i think is was former president Bush), on MSNBC, and they did nothing, I e-mail and complained, even sent in a copy of the clip, (i have a DVR and recorded) they still denied it. Double standard plan and simple. Savage though is full of him self 85% of the time. linuxhippie : Easy - It is clear in the new testment that the laws are changed, we are under the new covenant not the old, it is not what goes in the body as in food, but what is in the heart, and sex immorartly is definded in Corthians and other books as wrong, but eating of pork is not, unless we are going to keep all the old commentments. ((BTW - it is only a Sin if you act on it or think about it)) This post was edited by johnnyq on Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 10:43. |
| #18 By 135 (208.50.204.91) at 7/12/2003 12:51:31 PM |
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You gotta love daz!
"First, you guys are horribly ignorant for judging me because of what I happen to listen to." I judge you not based on what you listen to, but your ignorant comments. "It just shows the hypocrasy of liberals how they criticize everyone else for being biggots, when they themselves are the worst kind. " Where is the hypocrisy? That you judge everybody who disagrees with your moronic statements to be a liberal? "Second, not that you a-holes deserve any response, but I do happen to listen to National Pravda Radio every morning and I switch between NPR and a local radio show on the way home. Some nights I'll listen to Savage between commercials (or NPR's equivalent) " National Pravda Radio? What's with that statement? Do you call Rush's show Exellence in Bullcrud? "Third, sodablue likes proving me wrong by agreeing with me and proving what I said. " Agreeing with you? This is what you said: the guy was personally insulting Savage and hurling his own brand of racial slurs, I'm looking for it, and I'm just not seeing it. I've found half a dozen articles which interview this Foster guy, and not one of them back up your claim he hurled a string of racial slurs. But it doesn't matter. We know this Foster is a crank caller, that's why radio shows have the silence button and can drop the call. What we're discussing is Savage's behavior, and this claim that he has been the victim of gays who forced him into uttering these vile statements just isn't making hay. "I'm not defending Savage, I'm just telling you the facts (which Soda always seems to mistake for something else) " If you're not defending Savage why do you keep trying to claim his side of the story is correct? Even when it's clear from listening to the clip that it isn't correct. This BS that Savage is a victim because he attacks other people just isn't logical. It's clear you aren't interested in facts. You've even gone beyond lying. All that's left is your little fantasy world where liberals hide behind every corner trying to attack you. Well guess what? I don't know where the liberals are, but I'm definately here, and I'm going to call you out for what you are if you continue to make political comments here on activewin. |
| #19 By 1295 (68.97.186.211) at 7/12/2003 12:55:38 PM |
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to anywone defending savage,
just because someone was slurring to him and insulting him doesn't give him the EXCUSE to use the same slander against that person be it on the air or not. It shows a side of his character that prehaps he only lets out in front of friends and family etc. If another talk show host had been called by a crank caller or was setup or whatever the excuse and it was about racial issues and he started busing out "you stupid ni**er" or making references to cotton picking etc. NOONE WHOULD BE TAKING HIS SIDE... this is not much different. He is blasting in the most hateful way towards someone... something I can safely say I would never do no matter how pestering or taunting or utterly insulting someone was being to me in public or in private. BTW I like Savage... I'm not going to stop listening to him (never watched him on TV) but I do have a much lower respect for him as a person. |
| #20 By 135 (208.50.204.91) at 7/12/2003 12:59:16 PM |
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johnnyq - "I heard the whole clip, and what new is playing is not correct, the caller made claims to being from MBLA (Man Boy Love Association) and stated that children should be able to make decision to have sex at age 4, but no one is playing that at all. "
Post a link to the clip. "The funny part is an NPR reporter about a year ago wished that a Republican would get Aids or that his grandkids would, (i think is was former president Bush), on MSNBC, and they did nothing, I e-mail and complained, even sent in a copy of the clip, (i have a DVR and recorded) they still denied it. " Post a link to this clip. Which NPR reporter was this? Do you even have a name? "Double standard plan and simple. " Yeah, Savage is clearly a victim. Whatever. This post was edited by sodablue on Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 13:02. |
| #21 By 135 (208.50.204.91) at 7/12/2003 1:15:48 PM |
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Mr.Humpty - "I'm not going to stop listening to him (never watched him on TV) but I do have a much lower respect for him as a person. "
I'm still not going to listen to him as I find his attitude simply repulsive, but I had absolutely no respect for him when he filed a lawsuit against Savagestupidity.com to try to silence any opposition to his points. http://www.savagestupidity.com/ For years now I've been trying to point out to liberals that the right-wing is mostly composed of bullies. And like all bullies, the one thing they can't handle is when people stand up to them. So I see this article, I go pull up some links and all I find is Michael Savage crying like a baby, just like any other bully would do when some little kid finally clubs them in the nose. It's typical. It's just typical how right-wingers won't take any responsibility for their own actions, and instead try to blame it on someone else. (Once again looking at daz's lame defense of Savage) |
| #22 By 135 (208.50.204.91) at 7/12/2003 1:31:02 PM |
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Further research, this right from Michael Savage's website... Which is an interesting example of just how stupid these types of people really are, that they would throw the evidence out which convicts them and not even realize it:
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/savagesetup.html This is the exact quote... " 'Don and Mike' should take over your show so you can go to a dentist appointment, because your teeth are really bad." Now go back and listen to that mp3 clip again and you'll see Savage only silenced out the part between 'Don and Mike' and 'teeth are really bad'. This silenced out part about going to the dentist is the racial slur that daz is claiming the caller made. Insult sure. Racial slur? I'm struggling with that one. Then you look back at how this article was linked, and he claims it's proof he was setup: http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/index.html What a whiny little cry baby. Even gay men I know have more balls than this guy. |
| #23 By 135 (208.50.204.91) at 7/12/2003 5:02:08 PM |
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Maybe while we're at it, we can get Pat Robertson's 700 club off the air.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/11/national/main562915.shtml |
| #24 By 3653 (209.149.57.116) at 7/12/2003 7:38:04 PM |
| its a real shame that we cant all be a little thicker skinned about slurs, jokes, stereotypes. We all waste alot of time either being offended or hiding in corners telling jokes. It all just seems like such a waste of time. To each their own! Stop taking each and every unique detail about yourself personally. Laugh it off, and perhaps we can all get along for a change. |
| #25 By 20 (67.9.179.51) at 7/13/2003 2:52:05 AM |
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I won't dignify Soda's lame comments attacking non-sequitors and strawmen and ignoring the point altogether and not even reading my comments, but I did want to say:
I love it how Soda, a liberal, associated with a group who talks about 'diversity' and not stereotyping people, tries to lump all conservatives into the Savage group of froth-mouthed anti-homosexual morons. Argue to emotion soda, it worked for Bill Clinton, it works for you, I guess. (p.s.- I never defended Savage, like I said, I just want people to know the truth. He shouldn't have said those things, but the fact that he did doesn't automatically make him anti-homosexual. Have you ever uttered the 'N' word from your mouth? If so, then by your logic you are now, and always have been and always will be a racist) On a different note... Again, I'm not defending the notion, but for the sake of facts and full disclosure, most correct-minded Christians (not the froth-mouthed ones or the crazies who claim Christianity) believe the ACT of sodomy is morally wrong and a 'sin'. They do not believe Homosexuals are not evil people (no more evil than the rest of us who speed, accidentally walk out with more than we paid for at the store and don't make a point to return it, etc). And this belief, from what I understand, is not based on Leviticus 12:1 or whatever the verse was, it's based on New Testament teaches of morality w/r/t sexual relations with other people and the bond of marriage and family. The act of homosexuality seems to go against the basic plan of marriage and family in the Bible, I think that's their point. Of course, now Soda will try to pigeon-hole me into being a ultra-Christian whacko just because I happen to know something about how Christians think and a little about monotheistic theology, but then, Soda always attacks character, not facts. |
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