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Apple intros Panther, iSight, iChat AV and the new G5's | |
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||
| Time: 14:20 EST/19:20 GMT | News Source: TopTechTips | Posted By: Brian Kvalheim | ||
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"We have so much good stuff for you today..." Safari SDK (Dev Toolkit) today Safari Gold! Today - Will be released in 2/3 hours time. Jaguar is dead Panther has a brand new Finder, old one was "too computer centric" Fast Searching Action button added - which shows u what you can do with a document Labels are back Dynamic Network Browser - search for specific servers Enhanced iDisk significantly for Panther Finder Windows all brushed metal. | ||
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| #1 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 6/23/2003 2:26:33 PM |
| Oh yeah SodaJerk, here comes the innovation from Apple! Fast User Switching! (NOT!) |
| #2 By 3 (62.253.128.4) at 6/23/2003 2:32:24 PM |
| Lots of innovation there, but they do admit Microsoft got one thing before them! the iSight webcam looks great, and the G5 finally looks like Apple might be getting something right! |
| #3 By 2459 (69.22.78.116) at 6/23/2003 2:43:37 PM |
| Looks like more than one thing. Apple also likes embedding Safari's web support into other apps. |
| #4 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 6/23/2003 2:53:23 PM |
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The IBM 970 is a great leap forward for Apple, and hopefully will cause some increased competition for Intel and AMD. The implication behind this was that the G4 platform wasn't the fantastic performer that so many for so long claimed it was, and couldn't (and probably will never) admit it wasn't. Inability to face the facts... something that has long characterized the Apple faithful. Anyhow, this is great win for the consumer... it should be a particularly great upgrade for heavy Photoshop and digital video folks.
Interesting that IBM and Apple are now "partners," though! |
| #5 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 6/23/2003 3:02:59 PM |
| n4cer... they're embedding Safari rendering into other apps? Isn't that like how *gasp* Microsoft uses IE rendering throughout Windows and gets criticized for it all the time??? |
| #6 By 2459 (69.22.78.116) at 6/23/2003 3:27:28 PM |
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Right, bluvg, it's the double-standard at work again :-)
MS makes the web available to all apps and it's anticompetitive (even though the 3rd party devs using it like it). Apple does roughly the same thing, and first showcases it in iTunes (WMP [and hundreds of other apps] has been doing it for how long?) and it's an innovation in home desktop computing. Same old story.... |
| #7 By 2459 (69.22.78.116) at 6/23/2003 3:39:09 PM |
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Wow!!!
I thought that had to be a joke, Mr. Dee, then I went to Apple.com Those G5s must run pretty hot fo them to make the whole case a giant air vent. I've ported a couple of PC towers to provide better airflow before, but the result is more elegant than that. They talk about cutting clutter, but the case looks pretty cluttered compared to PCs I've worked on. Plus they cut internal expansion (yes, I know, who needs internal expansion with USB and FW, but internal is cheaper and doesn't clutter your desktop.) |
| #8 By 3 (62.253.128.4) at 6/23/2003 3:44:08 PM |
| All the screens and photos are up : http://www.toptechtips.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=627 |
| #9 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 6/23/2003 3:44:39 PM |
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I'll reserve my opinion until I see the cases in person, but from the photo link, it doesn't look as nice as previous cases (is this how the cases will look for sure?).
As for the "giant air vent," isn't that just a plexiglass cover so you can see the inside? Or is this actually how they will look? |
| #10 By 2459 (69.22.78.116) at 6/23/2003 3:57:33 PM |
| bluvg, check http://www.apple.com/powermac/design.html |
| #11 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 6/23/2003 4:00:28 PM |
|
Thanks for the screenshots, Byron! n4cer, it does look like you are right about internal expansion--it looks like there are very few bays. "Up to 500 GB of internal expansion" I'm guessing refers to 2 250 GB IDE drives (though the 300 GB ones are out now), but it looks like any other internal drives would have to be moved out of the case? It's hard to tell from a screenshot, though (looks a little like the newer Proliant cases, actually...). If those are open holes for air, they would provide incentive to blow out the dust often... every case that I've seen with that type of hole ends up with lots of dust hanging off of them.
It looks like they have a nice implementation of fast user switching. iChat2 doesn't seem all that impressive, but it will be nice once we can actually start using these solutions pervasively (bandwidth issues aside). I would like to see the demo of Expose... sounds similar in some ways to an idea I've had for window management, so I'm curious to see how it works. |
| #12 By 6859 (204.71.100.243) at 6/23/2003 4:05:16 PM |
| Those are some ULGY cases. Man, I thought the G4 tower case was ok, clearly they fired that designer...and hired a blindman. Looks like crap. |
| #13 By 3 (62.253.128.4) at 6/23/2003 4:42:04 PM |
| I must be the only one who quit likes the look of it! |
| #14 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 6/23/2003 5:00:24 PM |
| Byron, I will have to see (and hear) it in person, I think... to me, plastic tends to look better in photos than in person, and metal tends to look worse than in person. There may be good reasons for doing so, but like stubear said, I wish they still had the foldout motherboard. |
| #15 By 2459 (69.22.78.116) at 6/23/2003 5:04:50 PM |
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The SPEC numbers that give them the "World's Fastest" claim are also questionable. Maybe when they first benchmarked their machine, they were world's fastest personal computer (at least, compared to Dell), but Dell's current numbers (obtained from http://www.spec.org ) beat Apple's and tie in the FP throughput test. Some Athlon XP numbers were also ahead (didn't check Opteron).
Also, why use GCC and RedHat 9 for the comparisons? Windows is what most people would be switching from. I realize using GCC/Red Hat would better insure that Apple has a performance edge, but they lose out even more on initial cost (though, of course, most benchmarks don't mention price). Last, is Apple triple or quad pumping the memory they use? If not, they can't fully utilize the FSB bandwidth because memory bandwith becomes a bottleneck. |
| #16 By 3339 (66.219.95.6) at 6/23/2003 5:11:19 PM |
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Just got back from the show! Let's see if I can clear up some misperceptions:
1) Beauty is a subjective matter, but the pics do not convey what these machines look like. The "cheese grater" panels look nice. The alu is gorgeous. (But I don't give a sh!t about looks and I'm surprised to see this the focus of the softy commentary.) 2) The front and back panels are not "entirely" vents. There is internal casing that discretly blocks the case into 4 or 5 regions. The graphics at the site show this, but you really don't have 2 big dust collectors front and back: this case design shouldn't collect too much dust. There are fans everywhere though. This may be good--it's impossible to reconcile Apple's "thermal zone" design and 9 "quiet" fans with reality yet (Does the heat really get trapped in each zone, etc?) ... Maybe I'll know more in the next couple of days. 3) Internal expansion. Yes, two HD bays, one occupied. Six PCI slots (of various flavors), FW800, and FW400. If you need more than 500GBs of internal storage, I would hope that a RAID server or even an xServe would take care of your needs better (+500GB you are probably talking video--in which case, you're talking fibre channel). I don't see the expense really anyway: I picked up a 270GB HD for less than $300 recently. Clutter? I have never seen a tower with such a clean, compact, easy to access and service design before. 4) Case door/easy access. It's still there. Just pop the latch and the whole side drops down. 5) Availability. 1.25 SP G4s are available immediately. (Oops, i edited that--this machine is still a G4; thought it was a low-end/test G5, but nevermind.) The 1.6, 1.8 2X, and 2.0 2X will be available in August. Remember this is a dev conference. I didn't expect any availability. 6) Brian, enforcer, bluvg, hilarious!! I'd point out your silliness, but I've got better things to do right now. This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, June 23, 2003 at 17:45. |
| #17 By 2459 (69.22.78.116) at 6/23/2003 5:14:26 PM |
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BTW, for those interested, the keynote appears to be up.
http://stream.apple.akadns.net/ |
| #18 By 1868 (66.228.94.190) at 6/23/2003 5:20:53 PM |
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Yikes!!! its a 64-bit "cheese grater". Well, its nice to see something completely different every once and a while(remember the 3 wheeled car--the della?). Who knew a single company could create such unique products like the icube or this new product.
I don't need to see another apple switch commerical, I want to have one of these in my kitchen. Just think with those 4 seperate thermal zones I could cook my eggs, fry my bacon, make my toast, and lets not forget warm up my coffee. And now I'll be able to put highly graded cheese on my eggs.... Yummy... Apple thinks of everything... And Microsoft's got it all wrong...Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. |
| #19 By 2459 (69.22.78.116) at 6/23/2003 5:48:01 PM |
| BTW, Steve said MacOS was the most popular UNIX in the world again. How can this be when it technically isn't UNIX? :-) |
| #20 By 2459 (69.22.78.116) at 6/23/2003 5:50:13 PM |
| The Action button - going the extra mile to avoid a right mouse button :-) |
| #21 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/23/2003 6:14:51 PM |
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stu, I say aesthetics are subjective and you rant without having seen this thing in person! Whatever! It's the best looking box I've seen.
I apologize if I didn't realize you want the components to drop with the draw. I see no need for this seeing how the internals are organized. (It's still the easiest entry, cleanest layout, etc... I've seen. The Dell attempt at ripping this off is pathetic.) Mr. Dee, not much difference. A little thinner, a little shallower. Because of the handle config it's actually taller. |
| #22 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 6/23/2003 6:22:00 PM |
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Sodajerk, thanks for the first-hand info. My guess is similar to what you said--they will look better in person, FWIW. Apple seems to have two styling themes--the brushed metal look (which, personally, I think is a bit ugly), and the gooey, translucent candy look. It seems like the case has switched from the translucent look to the brushed metal--except with actual metal. I'm anxious to see how it works and sounds up close.
As for the internal expansion, I have to say it's a bit disappointing. On the one hand, it is definitely very clean and nice inside--in part attributable to the switch to serial-ATA (hooray for no more ribbon cables!). But it comes at the cost of expansion, apparently. True, you could hook up the other devices externally, but a similar sized Dell will hold 4 drives in a drive cage in the front, with room for 3 more (CD/DVD/ZIP/Hard drive/whatever) above the cage. That allows for quite a bit of RAID flexibility for digital video and whatnot, whereas you're forced to go with an external cage with the Apple... not the worst thing in the world, but definitely more expensive in both cost and space. But, if you want to put an extra CD/DVD drive/burner or ZIP drive in there, you're out of luck--that's a bigger drawback. Even with the different zones, if air is going through any of them, I can see the dust collecting. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though--it's a good visual reminder to clean the things out occasionally. BTW, are there 8 memory slots on the machine? Is this true of both single and dual processor motherboards? So you're saying it's true that they kept the foldout motherboard design? Does it work the same way or as easily as before? That would be cool if they did, but it sounds as though you're talking only about the case door, and not the motherboard. Is there any mention of the power usage of the G5? Will they be putting it in their xServe machines anytime soon? As n4cer mentioned before, though, it will be interesting to see what the comparative benchmarks look like come August, when these are actually available. The responses from the conference so far are as I expected (and predicted). Obnoxious spoon-fed Apple drones aside, though, this is a great leap forward for Apple hardware. |
| #23 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 6/23/2003 6:28:38 PM |
| Sodajerk, as far as Dells go, I would hardly call them pathetic. As far as newer machines go, I've worked on blue and white G3s and G4s (and iMacs), and the Dell Optiplex machines are by far the fastest to fix. The drop-down motherboard is nifty, but I'd still pick the Optiplex anyday when it comes to service. I'm anxious to try out the G5, though.... |
| #24 By 37 (24.241.230.234) at 6/23/2003 6:36:32 PM |
| lol@SodaJerk |
| #25 By 3339 (66.219.95.6) at 6/23/2003 6:42:35 PM |
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bluvg, jeez, I can hear you panting, calm down. Let's see:
yes, they look good, well-organized, sturdy, even though they aren't smaller they "feel" more compact... You're the only person I've heard complain about internal drive bay space. I don't see much need for another CD, DVD, or Hard drive (and what's this thing called a Zip Drive?) internally. People used to always bitch about the PCI slots--now that that's well in hand the complaint is about the drive bays, whatever. As I said, show me a workstation that needs more than 500GB of local storage and I'll show you an individual or company that doesn't know sh!t about networking. (Are you really suggesting you want/need more HD capacity INSIDE your workstation?) The dust thing: yes, but like the Dell's and others that use this grate design, there is internal casing below the surface of the grate and it is compartmentalized. I do not forsee any problems. Memory--no, just the DPs. Each chip can independently access their own bank of 4 Gig o' RAM. No, it's just the case door. It drops down and slides out a la the QTVR... I actually prefer this. From the setup, the internals are very accessible. The design wouldn't work well the old way because of the vertical clearance below the base--i.e. it would dropp down at a bad angle. Also, I'm not sure if it would be good to have the weight of the internals coming down with the door--although it is about the same weight. Nothing on power. I did hear quite a bit of "murmoring." Scientific and UNIX app vendors are sh!tting themselves (well, they are excited--not shocked, not overwhelmed, but very happy and excited to get on the Mac); apparently, there is going to be a very rapid transition to 970s, but I'm unsure of notebooks. iMacs might get 'em soon though. We'll have to wait and see. I left because I needed to be in work and was only there on my own time and free access via some dev'ers I know. I'll get more info from them and return tomorrow as well, I think. The benchmarks aren't that crazy... Here is the deal. They were conducted independently. They use parts that Dell actually ships, not ones they plan to introduce in a month or a couple of weeks. They use GCC and Red Hat. Why? As I said above, Apple is going after highend UNIX vendors--and from what I gathered, it seems to be working. Whether or not the Dell is slightly ahead or slightly behind, the Apple option is still cheaper. The G5 is twice as cheap as the UNIX option. And these benches are the PC users' high and mighty SPEC int and fp. Who cares about fp and int? I like the full picture: vector computations, I/O, latency issues, the speed of the TCP/IP stack, optimization of apps, many other issues. (The Mathematica demo was particularly ass-kicking in my mind.) This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, June 23, 2003 at 18:51. |
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