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Mistrusting Microsoft's philanthropy | |
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| Time: 00:00 EST/05:00 GMT | News Source: E-Mail | Posted By: Todd Richardson | ||
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Even when Microsoft Corp. attempts to do good, it seems, its critics distrust its motives. The company is significantly increasing its donation of software to U.S. nonprofit organizations, to a level that may approach $1 billion annually in the next three to four years, according to the organization that will distribute the software. Executives at nonprofit organizations are applauding the expected increase in donations, from $207 million in estimated retail value last year. But the increase has also drawn objections from developers of "open-source" programs (programs for which the source code is freely distributed). Those critics say they believe Microsoft is using a giveaway strategy to undercut the so-called free software movement in the potentially promising nonprofit market. . | ||
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| #1 By 2332 (65.221.182.2) at 5/26/2003 11:23:33 PM |
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Hmmm, let's see here. As far as I can tell, the only people who even potentially lose out is those that advocate open source even when it's not the best option.
If Microsoft gives their software away, it's still up to those non-profit organizations to take them up on that offer. Their not forcing them to do anything. If they still think open source is better, they can go open source. The difference now being that if price was the source of the worries surrounding Microsoft, that worry is now gone. Basically, this gives everybody MORE choice, and can only be a good thing unless you're the open source advocate who's only leverage was the fact that their software appeared cheaper. The "critics" should be happy... it's called competition! Isn't that what they wanted all along? |
| #2 By 12071 (203.185.215.149) at 5/27/2003 12:23:27 AM |
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#1 I guess that you would see things that way - not suprisingly mind you. Whilst from the outside I definetely don't have any issues with any company or group of people giving anything away for free to non-profit organizations, it is quite straightforward to understand where certain critics are coming from. You may disagree but Microsoft do have Linux as a competitor, they have not only said so or said comments implying so but many would argue that their actions recently and in the past prove that Microsoft do in fact see Linux as a strong competitor. That's not to say that they are worried about Linux taking over the market next year, but they are worried about what would happen if Linux gets it's foot in the door this year, creeps in a little more next year and so forth.
Microsoft was found guilty of abusing their monopoly and now they are giving away software which increases that monopoly. You obviously see nothing wrong with that because it's about Microsoft, but some critics may. Sure they aren't making money on that software but they are helping to ensure that XXXX people are using their software on their OS rather than on a competitor's OS, whether than be Linux or Solaris or OS X! But it's up to the individual nonprofit organizations to decide - they shouldn't be forced one way or the other or be swayed by 'additional gifts' by choosing one over the other. i.e. The best tool for the job should be selected - although I'm curious to know just how often the 'best tool' (whatever it may be) gets selected. |
| #3 By 116 (66.69.198.173) at 5/27/2003 1:58:32 AM |
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Of course they get angry...
MS just took away the only reason they might maybe consider crappy linux software. The one competitive advantage it has... its free. However its been said that linux is only free if your time is worth nothing... Peace, RA |
| #4 By 8273 (4.47.72.198) at 5/27/2003 2:29:39 AM |
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About 5 minutes ago there was a news segment here in Seattle about the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation funded a movie called "The Day My God Died" about the child sex slave trade in India.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was turned around and used against the Gates' by the ABM crowd. |
| #5 By 12071 (203.217.68.216) at 5/27/2003 6:29:44 AM |
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#3 Parker.... you're obviously a very angry person, or you feel unbelievably strong about anyone saying anything negative about Microsoft, in either case, relax.
Redhad do not dump their software below cost. Linux is free (read $0). They cannot provide it for below $0. What they can do is offer it for $xx but that $xx is for support or some of the commercial applications that they may provide with their distro (e.g. Accel-X). They do not need to be in court answering any questions, they are not abusing the monopoly they don't have! They are not criminals and should not go to jail. Where do you come up with this stuff? |
| #6 By 135 (208.50.204.91) at 5/27/2003 8:52:44 AM |
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Interesting. ABMers complain that Microsoft software is too expensive for use by non-profits.
Now that Microsoft has addressed that, the ABMers are complaining that Microsoft software is too cheap. Is there anything that will make ABMers happy? |
| #7 By 2332 (65.221.182.2) at 5/27/2003 9:19:59 AM |
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#2 - What, exactly, is your point? You basically said what I said, but in a more round about way, and with some anti-MS stuff thrown in.
#6 - "Redhad do not dump their software below cost. Linux is free (read $0)." Wrong. Redhat does indeed lose money on every copy of Linux they distribute. Linux may be free, but Redhat spends a lot of money paying its developers to write software they bundle with their version of Linux. Unless those developers are working out of the goodness of their hearts, and unless Redhat's costs (hosting, offices, payroll, etc.) are funded by the Linux Fairy, Redhat is indeed giving Linux away well below cost. Redhat, and most OSS companies, make their money off of support. |
| #8 By 7390 (198.246.16.251) at 5/27/2003 9:53:37 AM |
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anothe case of Microsoft being damned if they do and damed if they don't.
It seems that the Linux community expects Microsoft to stand still, not be responsive to customer needs and changing market conditions. If they lower the price it is called dumping. If they raise the price it is called leveraging their monopoly. This post was edited by RedHook on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 09:58. |
| #9 By 13030 (198.22.121.120) at 5/27/2003 10:02:00 AM |
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MS is in a unique position in that they can afford to give away (Internet Explorer), or sell at a substantial loss (Xbox), any product in order to continue to dominate a market position, prevent a competitor from achieving market share, or make a maneuver to attempt to control an emerging market.
Only a fool would truly believe that the donation of software by MS is completely and unequivocally altruistic. Since many non-profits operate on very limited budgets, the price, not features, of software can direct a usage decision. Combine that with the very nature of the hardware used by many non-profits (old and mismatched) and you have another compelling argument for free alternatives to MS products. MS knows this and feigns altruism to attempt to hide their market controlling tactics. If they didn’t have their monopolistic Office revenue stream, then I seriously doubt they would be able to afford to give products away for free. Of course, I do not expect them to refrain from many of these types of tactics, they are competing, I just don’t fall for the phony altruism. I use MS Office and Open Office. I find their feature sets and reliability to be comparable for all typical day-to-day tasks. I do find the MS Office APIs, supporting documentation, suite integration, and overall product usability to be the primary advantages of MS Office over Open Office. |
| #10 By 61 (24.92.223.112) at 5/27/2003 1:04:53 PM |
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ch: With your logic, which is the same stupid logic that all ther other ABMers use, Microsoft is not allowed to do ANYTHING. They can't expand into any new markets, they can't lower their prices, they can't add new features to their software, etc...
This is where the Sherman Antitrust Act fails, it was written in a time VERY different from today and needs SERIOUS re-writing. |
| #11 By 3653 (63.162.177.143) at 5/27/2003 3:34:55 PM |
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#11 ch - "MS is in a unique position in that they can afford to give away (Internet Explorer), or sell at a substantial loss (Xbox)"
Hmm... last I checked, Netscape gave Navigator away for free for years. So, I suppose Microsoft isn't so UNIQUE after all. And they most definitely COULD afford to do this at the time... before there was any credible competition. Hmm... last I checked, gave OpenOffice away for free for the better part of a year. So, I suppose Microsoft isn't so UNIQUE after all. Hmm... last I checked, both Sony and Nintendo LOSE money on their consoles the first 2 years. So, I suppose Microsoft isn't so UNIQUE after all. |
| #12 By 12071 (203.185.215.149) at 5/27/2003 7:57:44 PM |
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#9 "#2 - What, exactly, is your point? You basically said what I said, but in a more round about way, and with some anti-MS stuff thrown in. "
My point, exactly, is that I am trying to put forward a reason or two to explain why the critics may be reacting the way they are. i.e. After MS being found guilty and being "punished" for it here they are offloading their software for free which does, believe it or not, extend their desktop monopoly. Whether you believe or even understand that reason is beside the point, it's painfully obvious that you do not, I'm just trying to offer a potential other side of the story. Note that I never said that it is the other side of the story nor that it is the whole of the other story, some critics simply laugh at these actions my Microsoft calling them nothing but a PR stunt for instance. Is this a case of "damned if you do and damned if you don't" like #10 said? Possibly. But if you open your mind up just a little I'm sure you'll be able to see it from the other point of view where Microsoft is able to extend it's desktop monopoly - the same one they were found guilty of abusing. From that point of view, this action isn't all that sweet and innocent now is it. Note that before you get on your high horse and start protesting like a child that must be an ABM'er or Linux zealot or whatever the hype word of the week happens to be, I have not as yet said that is the case, I've just put forward a single argument from the other side. It makes a nice change from the same 5 or 6 people in here preaching Microsoft as being God. Now, what did I say that was anti-MS? The fact they were found guilty? Get a grip would you. You then come out and preach that you're not all pro-MS and that you are in fact pro-"best tool for the job" yet you cannot stand criticism of Microsoft. Learn to take the good with the bad. |
| #13 By 135 (208.50.204.91) at 5/27/2003 11:27:09 PM |
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"But if you open your mind up just a little "
Would a Dremel help? I think I need to remove the upper half of my brain in order to open my mind up enough to comprehend kabuki logic. |
| #14 By 12071 (203.217.70.131) at 5/28/2003 10:25:13 AM |
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#18 JaggedFlame, do you have anything useful to add to the conversation or is that it? I'm really curious since I see so many comments from you which are in a similar fashion.
"Strange. That's exactly what you do." What is exactly that I do? Hate to dissapoint you but I am in fact, in most cases, pro-"best tool for the job". I say most cases because I will be honest there are certain applications which I happen to prefer over others based on past experiences etc. Visual Studio happens to be one of those applications for instance. But unlike some here I can see both sides of the argument without too much trouble and by being able to put my own personal little biases on the side. "I'm sure you'd be hard pressed to find a single example where RMD totally embraces MS for no reason at all." Oh he has his reasons. However, those reasons don't in any way preclude him from being seen as a MS zealot for instance. A "reasonable" sign of someone who isn't a zealot is someone who can talk about a company or product and both acclaim and criticise it. Someone who only acclaims or only criticises usually has another agenda. |
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