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Why Panther May Tear Up Longhorn | |
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||
| Time: 14:16 EST/19:16 GMT | News Source: Microsoft Watch | Posted By: Jonathan Tigner | ||
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Sorry, Linux desktop fans: When it comes to desktop operating systems, it's currently a two-way race between Windows and the Mac OS. While Microsoft's market share dwarfs Apple's, the GUI diehards have keep each other busy for nearly two decades—and end users have regularly reaped the benefits of that competition, thanks to upgrades designed to top the competition's features and performance. This week, the cross-platform debate's been hot and heavy. Is Microsoft racing to catch up to Panther, the Mac OS X upgrade due to roll out at June's Worldwide Developers Conference? Should Apple be running scared after Microsoft's demos of its Longhorn OS at last week's Windows Hardware Engineering conference? | ||
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| #1 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 5/16/2003 2:53:13 PM |
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On the performance front, Apple is reportedly working to match XP's GUI responsiveness as well as launch, boot and log-in times. For features, Apple is burning the midnight oil to add capabilities that will rival Windows Terminal Services' access to multiple desktops, XP's ability to create profiles that travel with them among machines, and extensible help-system features that allow third-party developers to provide support and updates from within the OS. Add in such niceties as transparent, file system-level compression and encryption, and Apple has a sizeable task list in front of it. -Mac veteran Matthew Rothenberg... managing editor of Ziff Davis Internet and a regular eWEEK columnist.
Wow, say it isn't so. You'd be left scratching your head reading this after all the other mainstream media reports... XP has something on OS X besides not being bound to proprietary hardware? Yes, Virginia. |
| #2 By 20 (67.9.179.51) at 5/16/2003 3:43:11 PM |
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Basically, XP has all the features, and a fairly decent GUI and it working slowly but surely towards a really, really nice GUI while still maintaining compliance with various user interface theories.
OSX, on the other hand, has very little features and is mostly eye candy and is trying really hard to throw a bunch of features in at the last minute to catch up. Boy that doesn't sound like a recipe for disaster. It took MS many versions to get compression, encryption, offline files (remember briefcase?!!!), etc working very well. |
| #3 By 61 (65.32.171.144) at 5/16/2003 4:06:39 PM |
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Yeah, this article is a complete joke.
It's supposed to be a comparison, it's not at all a comparison. He's trying to compare an OS that is all hype from MS and two years away to an OS that is all hype from users (Apple is, as always, very tight-lipped about it's products.... wouldn't suprise me if Apple decided on what to release based on what the fansites were rumoring) and at LEAST 6 months away. In reality, he doesn't even have the slightest idea on what is going to be in Panther, and to a lesser degree, what is going to be in Longhorn. |
| #4 By 3465 (65.222.152.3) at 5/16/2003 4:35:46 PM |
| hehe, you non mac users are funny. |
| #5 By 3653 (63.162.177.140) at 5/16/2003 5:07:04 PM |
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Ever since someone posted that Apple commercial on AW about a week ago... I've been laughing. I'll post it again for those who missed out.
http://jeremy.zawodny.com/media/bitch.mpg |
| #6 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 5/16/2003 5:15:02 PM |
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I'll reserve my comments, but I feel some of these misperceptions or out and out lies need to be addressed:
"OS X is trying really hard to throw a bunch of features in at the last minute to catch up." No, these aren't being rushed--compression, encryption has been around for years in various incarnations. The ATG still does some of the most advanced compression and encryption research of most commercial R&D groups. Apple had been discussing mulit-logins/user switching 5 years ago when it was first announced that X would have a Unix base. Offline files are going to work much better, and the .Mac initiative goes back three years now. "wouldn't suprise me if Apple decided on what to release based on what the fansites were rumoring) and at LEAST 6 months away." Rumors are based on what's leaking out--not the other way around. Fans didn't think up 64bit support, piles, remote access and syncing of home files, etc... Some of us are going to have a dev preview in hand in three weeks. It will be on desktops and in packages in any where from 2 to 4.5 months (at the latest). "Its stress being a Mac user right now, you have to upgrade everything because support for OS 9 is dwindling, because Apple is pushing people to the new OS. Your old OS 9, 8.6, 8.1 applications can't run on 10." Dee, come on, you know better than this. Throughout the updates Classic has come to operate seemlessly. I haven't experienced any feature or stability issues with Classic in over a year, and Classic apps run at native speeds--i.e. as fast as if you were still running 9 or earlier, faster than in the OS X environment. "Another reason why OS X is just costly, look at the amount of times Apple has released new versions of OS X, 3 times,( 4 in September, when Panther comes out), come on, they released their OS even before Windows XP was ready for market." In 2 and a half years, I have paid for the OS twice totalling $229. I've had OS X since it was a developer preview. "Another thing I don't like the code names, whats OS 10.4 going to be called, Kitty-Kat?" Are you serious? You don't like a product because of an internal codename? whatever. This post was edited by sodajerk on Friday, May 16, 2003 at 17:15. |
| #7 By 10748 (169.3.169.138) at 5/16/2003 5:28:11 PM |
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I think all of us "OS enthusiasts" would like an updated "state-of-the-art" UI... But MS being the overwhelmingly most popular OS has too many obligations to consider other than making geeks happy with a snazzy whiz-bang UI. The UI and how it interacts with the user has many ramifications.
Case in point- When they were working on IE 5 they had a really cool new tool bar that actually let you dock and re-dock components, made it keyboard accessible... very cool. It was pulled because it was going to break screen readers for the blind... among other things that were in the market. Rather than face a law suit or make everyone buy new software that is very expensive, the new UI feature was pulled. This is just a small part of the political structure that has to be followed keeping the millions of users with different needs happy. OSX and Linux have a much easier environment to deal with, they won't piss off more than 5% of the computer users, who are mostly enthusiast users.... |
| #8 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 5/16/2003 6:03:50 PM |
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"The point is OS X was released before Windows XP and it has not taken off sucessfully. XP is presently at 94 million, OS X, 5 million. " No, that's not the point. OS X adoption in the Mac world is occuring at about the same rate as XP is in the Windows world. This article is just looking at features/technology (poorly) and development schedules; no where has anyone said : "OS X is more advanced than Windows and will soon surpass Windows in global marketshare."
Dee, XP didn't and still doesn't cost just $100. The majority of people do not know they can pretend to be eligible for educational pricing. "I just think they are taking it a bit too far. I didn't see Windows 98, Code named: Memphis on the 98 box, I didn't see Windows XP, code named: Whistler on the box, its just over done and full of hype. Whats going to happen after they run out of names, OS 11, Code name: a dog named Spot? Whatever" So this is the first time they have ever associated a codename with a product commercially, marketing-wise. How can one time be a "bit too far." You don't even know if they are going to do a Panther "thing." And you presume this will go on ad infinitum even though most Mac fans are aware of every single codename of every single product they've ever produced and did this way before Apple did (i.e codenames are frequently used to refer to particular models of Mac because they were more distinct--this was done without Apple's prodding, it was entirely spontaneous within the community)? Run out of names? They've had like 500 codenamed projects that people are publicly aware of. This post was edited by sodajerk on Friday, May 16, 2003 at 18:14. |
| #9 By 11888 (64.230.72.103) at 5/16/2003 6:15:36 PM |
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"Macs are for people who are very wealthy, stupid, like wasting time and just don't know how to use a real computer or OS."
I used to think the same thing until I switched. Now I can't believe how much time I wasted having to tinker with my computer in years gone past. And no fears and of the latest worm. |
| #10 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 5/16/2003 6:25:35 PM |
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Mr. Dee--I think you are the one making the big deal about UI. I see more PC fanboys either drooling over X, begging for it to be ported, or claiming the Second Coming when they speak of LH's "3D" UI even though they don't know what the features are. In the Mac community, you actually see intensive levels of criticism of the Mac UI, appreciation for its actual benefits, or they've gotten past the effect of the look-and-feel, or they are the small minority who think UI elements are the biggest selling point. The point being both platforms (even Liinux) have a full spectrum of views on the significance of UI (and most frequently its really focused on look-and-feel -- I focus on UI which I do see as significant but not l-n-f): it's just a matter of how much you talk about it (and this includes b1tching about it or saying it's not important.)
For every time you say, "I shut everything off," I hear someone beg for OS X or Longhorn. Yes, I do use Windows more than my Mac. (I've said it a number of times.) But this has actually shifted up quite a bit--I'm doing more side projects now outside of work--so it's nearly 50/50 now. What's your point? While at work I'm frustrated frequently using the PC, and some times I bring home work--not because I really want to work more hours, but because I'd rather do the work on the Mac. I began on a Mac, am proficient on a PC, and still love the Mac. This post was edited by sodajerk on Friday, May 16, 2003 at 19:17. |
| #11 By 2459 (69.22.78.22) at 5/16/2003 6:28:57 PM |
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You don't have to be eligible for educational pricing to get XP Home for $100. If you were elegible for educational pricing, you could get it for a lot less than that in many cases.
The majority of XP purchases are with new systems and as upgrades. XP Home, when purchased with a new system, only costs $50. Retail Upgrades are generally just under $100. Full version OEM discs can be purchased for less than $100. |
| #12 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 5/16/2003 6:31:00 PM |
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upgrade is 99.95
full is 189.95 |
| #13 By 2459 (69.22.78.22) at 5/16/2003 6:34:28 PM |
| You're paying too much :-) |
| #14 By 16045 (32.96.48.4) at 5/16/2003 6:45:41 PM |
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am i the only one that thinks both windows xp and jaguar both rule?? i would use either or both any day. i get equally excited reading about both and where they are going. its not a race or a war as far as i'm concerned - its healthy competition where the consumers win. if one side comes up with something innovative i can hardly wait for the other to pick it up. together along with other os's like linux, they are driving the future of computing and it looks awesome from here to me! This post was edited by reactionary007 on Friday, May 16, 2003 at 18:46. |
| #15 By 9549 (68.44.192.65) at 5/16/2003 6:51:14 PM |
| #7 that was the first time I saw that Mac Commercial and I never laughed so hard in my life it is all true |
| #16 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 5/16/2003 7:08:01 PM |
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No, I don't pay too much. I don't pay anything.
Saying that you can sneak around and depending on who you are, you can get OEM disks is not very interesting. I could have paid zero for Mac OS too, or cited educational pricing (which is unlimited licensing), or ADC member costs. But the REAL retail price is what most people are paying. |
| #17 By 2459 (69.22.78.22) at 5/16/2003 7:17:32 PM |
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Who has to sneak around? OEM discs are available to anyone as long as you make a hardware purchase (hardware being anything, a mouse, for example).
And there is still the fact that most purcchases are upgrade versions or part of new system purchases. In either case, the price of Windows XP Home is less than $100 ($50 to 100 to be exact). Apple doesn't have upgrade pricing, so XP ends up being cheaper than OS X in the majority of cases. |
| #18 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 5/16/2003 7:42:32 PM |
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And it's zero for Mac OS when you buy hardware.
So... you could have paid $50 or $100 or $189 for XP (no PLUS! packs though) in the last TWO years, or you could have paid ZERO, $99, $129, or $229 for Mac OS X over the last THREE years. You're right HUGE difference. |
| #19 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 5/16/2003 7:44:51 PM |
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enforcer, can you seriously get an OEM disc with a full system and valid PA code with a mouse?
Just curious, I used to get OEM disks through our systems vendor (with good licenses for our uses), but I never heard of getting OEM disks with ANY hardware purchase--nevermind that actually included a legal license. |
| #20 By 2459 (69.22.78.22) at 5/16/2003 7:48:59 PM |
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Sodajerk, you can't be serious...
"And it's zero for Mac OS when you buy hardware." By hardware, I'm talking about a $5 mouse or similar, not an entire computer. If you want to talk entire computers, Windows still wins over OS X. The price of Windows is included in the price of the computers the same way Mac OS X's cost is included in the cost of a Mac. PC's running Windows cost a lot less than Macs. |
| #21 By 2459 (69.22.78.22) at 5/16/2003 7:52:01 PM |
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"enforcer, can you seriously get an OEM disc with a full system and valid PA code with a mouse?"
Yes, you can. |
| #22 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 5/16/2003 7:55:50 PM |
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Well, I thought it was stupid that you were saying it was $50 when you buy hardware.
But still, do you actually get a FREE (or $50) OS (i.e. with valid license and activation code) when you purchase a mouse? Please explain. I've never heard anyone speak of getting cheap OEM disks with any hardware purchase. (Seriously. I'm curious. I think the demonstrated range of $0-189 (for Home only) over 2 years versus $0-229 over 3 years is pretty clearly negligible anyway so I have no interest arguing. I just want you to answer straight...) Do you get an OS license and activation code with the purchase of ANY hardware for $50? How do you go about this? |
| #23 By 2459 (69.22.78.22) at 5/16/2003 7:58:46 PM |
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Check these two links...
XP Home OEM http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=37-102-014&DEPA=6 Hardware (Examples not mice, but you get the idea, and these items don't even add cost) http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=12-101-20 |
| #24 By 2459 (69.22.78.22) at 5/16/2003 8:03:32 PM |
| The $50 price is when XP is part of a new system (like a Dell). It's included in the system price. You can get additional licences (no media) for $50+. A quick check shows $58+ currently. |
| #25 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 5/16/2003 8:05:39 PM |
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Okay, I do that and it gives a $93 price tag. Cheaper than $189, but not $50.
And I get a useless closeout item from a store I wouldn't trust after it produced three errors in the 10 or so clicks I went through trying to get the price down to $50. Big freakin deal. |
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