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Opera is Spyware!?! | |
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||
| Time: 07:48 EST/12:48 GMT | News Source: the inquirer | Posted By: Bill Roach | ||
|
RESTING IN SUNNY FLORIDA, I was Running Opera on a nephew's system, specifically ver 7.03 US - the adware version. I didn't mind ignoring the ads too much, and even occasionally clicked on a few to feed the clikthru hungry bannerati. Lo and behold, without entering any voluntary location data, and always entering such info in a dodgy fashion when it was a "required field", the banner ads started getting personal, or at least - local, advertising businesses very close by. It seemed as if the browser might be feeding back URL lists, or perhaps, gasp, form field content, or XML. Naw... I thought - not Opera. I like those folks, and have recommended it to so many. | ||
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| #1 By 2960 (156.80.64.196) at 4/21/2003 8:58:14 AM |
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IF this guy is right, then Opera Software has some serious 'splainin to do.
TL |
| #2 By 143 (199.35.35.169) at 4/21/2003 9:16:24 AM |
| Can’t blame this on MS… |
| #3 By 7390 (198.246.16.251) at 4/21/2003 9:55:56 AM |
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If this was IE then it would on the front page of the New York Times and every other journal in the world
"Microsoft spies on you for Iraq" please excuse the hyperbole |
| #4 By 8241 (205.189.47.238) at 4/21/2003 9:56:50 AM |
| when in doubt, blame the nephew!... or blame ARIN! |
| #5 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 4/21/2003 10:39:54 AM |
| Does Opera have a privacy policy? |
| #6 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 4/21/2003 11:19:04 AM |
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Wrong # 12.
The ad *stuff* in Opera is NOT 3rd party, only the ads are. Alexa is NOT inserted into IE via Windows Update. PLEASE research before posting. |
| #7 By 20 (67.9.179.51) at 4/21/2003 12:55:07 PM |
| Reguardless of who's right or wrong, there is a huge difference between the on-demand Alexa, and Opera (if the Inquirer article is true, which I heavily, heavily doubt) which collects all your information and displays targeted banner ads |
| #8 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 4/21/2003 1:18:42 PM |
|
Jeez, daz, even when you're being sceptical, you're still hypocritical--even this ridiculous, and it is truly RIDICULOUS article (as per dkg, doesn't he know how to examine packets or is he simply an armchair paranoid who thinks he's exposed the Big Conspiracy using Process Viewer?), doesn't say that Opera collects all your information.
So, yes, I agree that there's a big difference beween something that is real and something that is being hypothesized and demonized without any real information. (By the way, I have no problem with the Alexa features, but I also see it as POTENTIALLY no different than what an ad-subsidized version of Opera is doing--that is, it's understood that the FREE version may transmit some form of info to 3rd parties--how much? That's a good question, but this article and the presumptuous-ness of this discussion don't help to answer that.) |
| #9 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 4/21/2003 2:09:18 PM |
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" I always find it amusing when people say "PLEASE research before posting" having just demonstated that they've done no such things before posting their own message. "
I find it amusing when people find it amusing when people say "PLEASE research before posting", yet the still never researched! Alexa isn't a program, nor is it software, nor is it spyware. It's a "what related" feature in the sidebar of ie that opens up a WHATS RELATED webpage within the sidebar. There is NO ALEXA installed by installing IE or Windows Update. By installing IE or updating IE via Windows update, IE will be updated to the most recent version, including reassociating the Alexa website with the sidebar, WHATS RELATED. No software, no spyware, no installation. |
| #10 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 4/21/2003 2:36:43 PM |
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Apparently AdWare mis-reports on the Alexa link in IE. So it's more of a problem with Adware than IE.
http://www.pestpatrol.com/pestinfo/a/alexa_adware.asp It seems to me that if you are using Opera for free, then you are agreeing to view their ads which means you are agreeing to send demographic info to them. If Opera were doing this in their pay version that would be an issue. |
| #11 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 4/21/2003 3:03:56 PM |
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Soda, say it aint true! And the people that say differently about Alexa say that they researched this?
Thanks for the great info Sodablue! |
| #12 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 4/21/2003 5:11:40 PM |
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Gotta give props where it's due. This is from Bascule at OSnews (if you go to the site, you've got to know the name); here is his info in its entirety (in two posts because of restrictions):
First, let's get Opera's side of the story: http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=453 "When Opera connects to the ad servers to download new ads, no information which can identify a person is sent, and everything can be viewed as pure text. There are no attempts to hide the transmitted data." I found it incredibly odd that for all the monitoring software this guy downloaded, he never downloaded a packet sniffer. Run a packet sniffer in the background and what do you see? Opera periodically connecting to the ad servers and making plaintext HTTP requests. The information that's set is everything you've filled out in the "Personal Information" section of the configuration. But then during a now seemingly routine DLL load notification, I read that Opera had loaded a pgpmn.dll file, that I couldn't explain. After all, I wasn't using pgp on this machine, and my nephew hadn't fired it up in weeks, or longer, so I had to wonder - What was Opera doing with my pgp files, without my express permission to be there? I downloaded the Process Viewer utility linked to in the article. At no point in time was "pgpmn.dll" loaded. Furthermore, I have no "pgpmn.dll" on my system. |
| #13 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 4/21/2003 5:12:08 PM |
|
Here's a quick listing of all DLLs that come with Opera 7.10:
C:Program FilesOpera>dir /s *.dll Volume in drive C has no label. Volume Serial Number is C070-1B26 Directory of C:Program FilesOpera 04/10/2003 05:21 PM 167,936 es262-32.dll 04/10/2003 05:21 PM 198,656 m2.dll 04/10/2003 05:21 PM 53,248 Opjpeg32.dll 04/10/2003 05:21 PM 65,024 Oppng32.dll 04/10/2003 05:21 PM 46,592 OUniAnsi.dll 04/10/2003 05:21 PM 31,744 vxpi.dll 04/10/2003 05:21 PM 47,616 xmlparse.dll 04/10/2003 05:21 PM 39,424 zip.dll 8 File(s) 650,240 bytes Directory of C:Program FilesOperaPlugins 03/04/2003 09:09 PM 98,304 npqtplugin.dll 03/04/2003 09:09 PM 98,304 npqtplugin2.dll 03/04/2003 09:09 PM 98,304 npqtplugin3.dll 3 File(s) 294,912 bytes Directory of C:Program FilesOperaProgramPlugins 02/11/2003 07:02 AM 32,768 np32dsw.dll 09/18/2002 03:31 AM 4,608 NPAdbESD.dll 11/01/2002 09:15 PM 86,125 NPJava11.dll 11/01/2002 09:15 PM 86,125 NPJava12.dll 11/01/2002 09:15 PM 86,125 NPJava13.dll 11/01/2002 09:15 PM 86,125 NPJava32.dll 11/01/2002 09:15 PM 86,122 NPJPI140_03.dll 08/12/2002 12:42 AM 103,344 nppdf32.dll 03/04/2003 02:06 PM 109,056 nppl3260.dll 03/05/2003 12:51 PM 729,088 NPSWF32.dll 12/20/1999 02:16 PM 8,704 npwmsdrm.dll 11/19/2002 04:01 PM 28,672 PlugDef.dll 12 File(s) 1,446,862 bytes The Process viewer also showed me the 8 threads it was running, and strangely, though MS Task Manager showed Opera operating at normal priority, the child threads showed a different story. No less than two threads were running at Time-Critical priority, and another thread was "above normal". As far as I can tell, it's not possible for the Windows Task Manager to display priority... I downloaded the "Process Viewer" utility. Virtually every application had at least one thread running at higher than normal priority. My copy of Opera had three threads running, one of which was running at a higher-than-normal priority (10). Opening notepad.exe and viewing it in Process Viewer showed one thread, also running at priority 10. Clearly this isn't something out of the ordinary. As far as I'm concerned, they have a near-impossible chance of winning back any trust from me, and despite the many features of Opera that I truly enjoyed, like mouse gestures and easy page ZOOM, I'm going to flip over to Phoenix. I've been playing with it, and thought it wasn't quite ready, but I now think that it is ready enough, based on the alternatives. (Phoenix and Mozilla also have the best support I've seen for Math-ML, do render complex mathematical formulae almost as well as TeX.) Phoenix is FAST, has a tiny memory footprint, and it is open source. Yes, nothing like filling your head with paranoid delusions then pushing another browser. I don't know about you, but I believe this article is total bullshit. |
| #14 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 4/21/2003 5:40:13 PM |
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Ok, this pretty much seals the case... sodajerk is a bonified ABMer. If this article had been about Microsoft IE, he'd have been all over it.
At least I'm consistent. :) BTW, in Task Manager go to View -> Select Columns. What you want is Base Priority. "Yes, nothing like filling your head with paranoid delusions then pushing another browser. " Now you know how I feel. This post was edited by sodablue on Monday, April 21, 2003 at 17:41. |
| #15 By 7390 (198.246.16.251) at 4/21/2003 5:53:14 PM |
| This comment has been removed due to a violation of the Active Network Terms of Use. |
| #16 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 4/21/2003 6:47:05 PM |
|
Wait, I post about daz's hypocrisy towards the Inq and I post someone else's info (not mine and not my opinion) that is highly accurate that demonstrates that Opera is doing about what Alexa is doing (except the info transferred is the same info as what the user submits to Opera in the first place), and don't express an opinion one way or the other... about either browser.
By the way, my opinion is in accord with your's, soda, the free/ad version is of course going to transfer some personal info, and the user should except to give up that element of privacy. Did I say: "IE is spying on you!" Did I say: "No way in hell Opera is doing this, they're my favorite!" (And they aren't.) No, no, no. |
| #17 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 4/21/2003 6:48:12 PM |
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Red: "As I have said before he is Melkor, Sauron and Sauraman rolled into one..."
I've said before you are a pathetic loser. And once aain you continue to be wrong about this: "As it turned out (thanks to many on this for providing the information) it was a user configuration issue." |
| #18 By 37 (66.168.16.248) at 4/21/2003 7:08:05 PM |
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Sodajerk, are you aware of what the pgpmn.dll is?
As far as I can tell, it's not possible for the Windows Task Manager to display priority... Have you used Windows? Or, have you used the Task Manager? If you have, you would know this is an option. My experience mimics this article as far as the thread priorities with Opera. csrss, taskmanager were the only two high priority (on my system) besides the child threads from Opera, which really put the nail in this coffin. (for those interested in duplicating the article findings, and mine, download the utility here: http://www.teamcti.com/pview/prcview.htm). I recommend running the command line version. |
| #19 By 37 (66.168.16.248) at 4/21/2003 8:45:45 PM |
| IE doesn't contain spyware Syncope. |
| #20 By 37 (66.168.16.248) at 4/21/2003 9:31:02 PM |
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My point syncope is that the MS *bashers* out there in the world, and those that visit here are so fast to point out an MS short coming, yet at the same time, when something NON-MS has a shortcoming, those NAY SAYERS are the first to either not say anything, or are there to defend that NON MS product to the best of their ability.
Hypocrites or double standards? You choose...I don't know what to call them. |
| #21 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 4/22/2003 1:13:44 PM |
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"Sodajerk, are you aware of what the pgpmn.dll is?"
Brian are you aware of how to read? "This is from Bascule at OSnews (if you go to the site, you've got to know the name); here is his info in its entirety (in two posts because of restrictions)" These are someone else's words and opinions. Not mine. |
| #22 By 37 (66.82.20.150) at 4/22/2003 1:24:09 PM |
| Great comeback Sodajerk. Now that you are officially LOST, did you need some direction? |
| #23 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 4/22/2003 2:05:11 PM |
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Lost? In what way? I am aware of what's going on here. THe more recent post has some of you softies saying now: well, it's not a big deal; the Inq is a bunch of idiots. I have never had such problems with Opera. I know what I have said and I know you don't know how to read.
What sort of directions would you like to give me, Mr."MVP"? (Ha, ha, ha) |
| #24 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 4/22/2003 6:22:27 PM |
| Hey, we broke 40 without mhfm! |
|
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