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The Linux Uprising | |
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| Time: 00:35 EST/05:35 GMT | News Source: Business Week Online | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
|
Meet Nicholas Walker, digital nomad. Like blues musicians who once wandered the South singing for their supper, this 18-year-old high school dropout lives out of a suitcase--sometimes trading his software programming skills for a place to crash or some spending money. His travels have taken him far and wide, from a programmers' confab in Istanbul to Massachusetts Institute of Technology's famed Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. Walker's fresh, earnest face tells all: He's an idealist. He believes in sharing his software innovations with others. "I'm not comfortable with selling the things I do and making money from them," Walker says during a stopover at his parents' home in New Hampshire. | ||
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| #1 By 135 (208.50.206.187) at 2/23/2003 2:29:22 AM |
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Halcyon-X12 - "For example, anyone can learn math and it is an intellectual property, yet just because it's free doesn't mean it has no value. "
That's crap. People who have devoted their lives to better understanding math problems ought to be able to trade that knowledge for money just as much as a sales person, or a financial analyst. The thing I just don't get is why you aren't supportive of people in the profession. You hurt other software developers, and the people you help are the ones you claim to despise the most... The "suits"... the financial guys, the sales persons. It's schmucks like Robert Young who haven't coded anything in their entire lives who are benefiting from your naivety... He's a Finance guy for christ's sake! At least Bill Gates was a developer. |
| #2 By 7754 (209.98.24.241) at 2/23/2003 12:34:06 PM |
|
Let's merge philosophy with reality. There are definitely many benefits to Open Source software, and I don't think anyone disagrees with those. But here's the reality--the reason so many businesses are curious about Open Source software is because it means less $$$ (at least on the surface--it's going to depend on the business). You have to be awfully naive to believe that isn't money that's coming out of developers' pockets in the long run. Open Source is developers as a whole agreeing to a considerable pay cut. Fine if they want to do that, I suppose, but it stinks for those that don't, and it stinks for the industry as well.
What spurred the incredible growth of the PC industry during the last two decades? People thought they could make a buck. Take the buck away, and watch it stagnate. The "invisible hand" theory of economics isn't without flaws, but its merits can be seen quite clearly in the software industry. |
| #3 By 135 (208.50.206.187) at 2/23/2003 1:19:45 PM |
|
gg- "It is patents that really screw with the latter part though which is unfortunate. "
I agree with this, but that's not what Halycon said, or if he meant it, he didn't go into into such detail. He simply said that people shouldn't be allowed to sell the efforts of intellect . "And the fact that various programming techniques etcetc are kept secret also tends to curb progress. " Well this certainly goes back to my general complaint that software derives protection in three areas... copyright, patent and trade secret. This is unique to this particular industry, and I don't think it's necessarily right. However correcting this, and going down the path of GNU are two entirely different things. |
| #4 By 3653 (216.153.67.116) at 2/23/2003 1:21:38 PM |
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#7 - "Most people who uses Linux are kids, of course there are exceptions."
open source is great, until you get that mortgage and start to like that flashy new car... THEN you see the benefits (to the developer) of the "old" ways. The points in this thread are good... the ONLY reason the suits even listen to the "open" source argument is because it sounds like their utopia... a FREE team of developers. And YES, most definitely, that sum total shift in $ is out of the pockets of developers and onto the bottom line... assuming it isn't first soaked up in new costs. Its a shame to see smart devs stabbing themselves and their peers each day. |
| #5 By 135 (208.50.206.187) at 2/23/2003 1:27:32 PM |
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Steven123 - "Why do you fear open source? It's unrealistic to presume that it'll make you unemployed. "
Why do you think I fear it, considering I write open source software? Maybe if you spent more time understanding the issue... |
| #6 By 135 (208.50.206.187) at 2/23/2003 4:48:43 PM |
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Steven123 - "I'll rephrase it, why do you fear the GPL license considering it's just another competitor to your license & way of doing business? "
Because it is not another way of doing business. If you read the Communist, er I mean GNU Manifesto it is quite clear that the purpose behind GNU is to eliminate the role of software developer as an employed occuptation. This is not forward progress, but rather, a grasp of the way it used to be. GNU is all about moving the software profession back to the way it was in the earliest days, when developers worked for Universities and Government research programs. If you do not understand what I'm talking about due to your lack of experience, I'd suggest reading Steven Levy's Hackers book. In there you'll read about the history of Richard Stallman at the AI lab and his effort to destroy the business spinoffs that derived from there. "Silly question, a businessmans greatest fear is competition, why should you be any different. " Because it's not competition. GNU has been quite clear in their position that they know they cannot compete through normal market roles, so they have worked instead to use the governments to outlaw competition against GNU licensed products. We've seen this in the United States, as well as many third world nations and now Europe. http://www.redhat.com/opensourcenow/bill_opensource.html Government mandates are not competition, and you are being dishonest with yourself and your argument to claim otherwise. "My income isn't derived from the software industry, that's probably why it's easier for me to side with Linux, I doubt I would have been this accomodating if my income came through software development. " As I said, the people who make money and are pleased with GNU are the schmucks who don't develop software, but instead pride themselves on making money off the hard work of others. "As for the consequences of a GPL'd world, none of us know, could be positive or negative, only time will tell(if it ever occurs) " Perhaps. The "Open Source Movement" has pretty much collapsed in upon itself with the downturn economy. While Linux will remain, the reality of the gift culture doesn't play over well with the unemployed. Most companies also understand the danger of single-source solutions, whereby they obtain software from the same company building the hardware. Like I said... GNU is about taking the industry back to the past. "What we do know is that we're locked into a monopoly and history has proved, that's rarely a good thing. " Except in the the pre-monopoly computer world we were worse off. This is something that GNU doesn't take into their equation when they desire to go back to the past. It was consumer demand that drove Microsoft to monopoly position, not mergers, acquisitions or any other control of limited resources. This is one of the realities to this argument that you appear to be totally unwilling to accept. History has taught us that being true to oneself is one of the most important virtue. Calling GNU competition, refusing to understand the nature of the Microsoft monopoly... these are examples of lying to oneself to justify a preconceived notion. The debate requires more intelligence than that. Personally I think there are some serious questions to be asked with regards to the role of software in the computer industry, and how that role should be encouraged to flourish. I don't see GNU asking those questions, instead they are taking positions which will cause worse problems than the ones we have now. It is akin to complaining about a door sticking, and recommending we burn the house down to solve it. |
| #7 By 135 (208.50.206.187) at 2/23/2003 7:59:49 PM |
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linuxhippe - "Could customers ever demand that they don't want a Microsoft monopoly?"
Yes, they can stop buying the product, certainly. "Unfortunately, this is exactly where free software excels and is making inroads. One-size-fits-all, one-app-is-all-you-need, one-api-and-damn-the-torpedoes has turned out to be an imperfect strategy for the long haul." " Huh? That's one of the most nonsensical comments I've ever seen you make. Free software does not offer any different alternative to this than Windows. It's one size fits all, and if you don't like it well you can damn well write your own solution! "Where did GNU make that quite clear? Any links for this?" I gave you one at Redhat. You can also read the GNU Manifesto if you'd like. |
| #8 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 2/23/2003 8:42:30 PM |
| Well said, Sodablue. |
| #9 By 135 (208.50.206.187) at 2/23/2003 10:11:07 PM |
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linuxhippie - "the bill mentions several competitive advantages of F/OSS "
Competitive advantages don't require laws. "I mean, I know it's quite clear, but it doesn't jump out at me. " Look for the line in the GNU manifesto that talks about banning high paying jobs for software developers. You know... we've been through this before. Like i said, be true to oneself... This post was edited by sodablue on Sunday, February 23, 2003 at 22:13. |
| #10 By 3653 (216.153.67.116) at 2/24/2003 12:40:49 AM |
| linuxhippie, he gove you references. Reread his posts, if you are still unclear. |
| #11 By 135 (208.50.206.187) at 2/24/2003 2:18:40 AM |
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linuxhippie - Oh good grief, this is only like the 6th time I've pointed this out to you:
Right there, out of the GNU Manifesto: "What the facts show is that people will program for reasons other than riches; but if given a chance to make a lot of money as well, they will come to expect and demand it. Low-paying organizations do poorly in competition with high-paying ones, but they do not have to do badly if the high-paying ones are banned. " Again, I think you are afraid of the truth. |
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