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Microsoft joins with Bar to aid INS detainees | |
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| Time: 08:08 EST/13:08 GMT | News Source: Seattle Times | Posted By: Todd Richardson | ||
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Foreigners detained in Washington on immigration violations will be provided free legal help under a plan announced yesterday by the American Bar Association and Microsoft, which decried the "dire situation that immigrants face in the United States today." In Washington, about 300 people are being held by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service. Because they have not been charged with crimes, they have not been provided lawyers, and only about 10 percent can afford to hire legal help. As a result, many wind up being detained for more than a year. | ||
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| #1 By 9156 (192.55.140.2) at 2/11/2003 11:12:07 AM |
| Immigration is not a crime? Send them back to there homeland. There are other places to be spending money besides defending immigrants. We just really dont know whats going on huh? Defend the immigrants and let the people who defended our country live homeless. |
| #2 By 135 (208.50.206.187) at 2/11/2003 8:54:44 PM |
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z00ker - "Use those and you won't be locked up and you won't be deported."
Hmm, many of those detained were here legally. It's just that there are now some questions. Which I don't have a problem with. What I'm baffled with is why you would be against them having legal counsel. Are you so unsure of the charges brought against them, that a fair trial should be avoided? "I, nor anyone else, need live their life for the benifit of others. To claim that the only morality resides in the service of others and giving of yourself to others is irrational. " This statement strikes me as hyperbole... What do you mean "To claim that the only morality"? I see no person making such a claim. Most people who profess to follow objectivism don't, it's sort of like claiming to be Christian. It sounds kind of cool, but when push comes to shove they don't follow the teachings. To the point, I do not find your arguments to contain anything in the form of reason. They are rather irrational, filled with hyperbole which indicates you have completely failed to objectively listen to the arguments being put forth. "It is not my, nor anyone elses job to give them a free ride for breaking the law. " Again, nobody is suggesting this, they are suggesting legal counsel which has been established by our courts as a right afforded to defendants. Our Constitution is also quite clear on being detained without charge. The Constitution may be the law, but it codifies the value system of our nation. It should not be necessary to enforce such behavior in Americans, but rather Americans should understand the reason behind the law and not make the same mistakes that they attempted to correct by mistreating others in the ways forbidden to treat our own citizens. I find such behavior reprehensible and quite clearly un-American in it's design. A large part of the problem the US faces right now is that our foreign policy is entirely inconsistent with our domestic policy. A start in correcting this would be to treat all people fairly, whether they be citizens, non-citizens, criminals or even prisoners of war. It is entirely unclear to me why you equate the fair treatment of people with releasing them back into the public. Nowhere in the Constitution does it state this, it rather says that charges shall be presented and the defendent has a chance to answer to his accusers. Providing legal counsel to people who are detained does not mean that we are releasing them, it simply means we are providing them with an understanding of our legal system, and a voice to help present their defense in a manner consistent with our legal system. |
| #3 By 20 (24.243.41.64) at 2/11/2003 10:54:37 PM |
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soda: I'm still not sure how I feel about the immigrants being detained. From how I understand it, they're mostly here illegally (or partially illegaly -- like their student visas recently ran out, etc).
But I think there is SOME credibility to the Government's claim that to present evidence in a public court against these people would compromise intelligence and I think a lot of people in the public don't recognize just how important it is to protect every little bit of intelligence you have on someone or some group of people. Just Colin Powell's address gave away tons of information to Sadam about how the U.S. collects information, where they have people and how they can get them there, etc. I'm not defending the Gov. on this, I'm just saying that they are caught between a rock and a hard place. Also, for enemy combatants, part of getting them to give up intelligence information is to isolate them and build trust, and if you allow them to communicate with lawyers and other counsel, they will be advised to not talk and strengthened by their counsel and hardened. This serves no one. The enemy combatants, at least, are not mere criminals, they are Enemies (1st class) of the United States and therefore have only the most basic human rights (i.e. not due process or habeas corpus, etc) I mean, what do you suggest we do with them (I ask that sincerely, not sarcastically)? |
| #4 By 135 (208.50.206.187) at 2/12/2003 12:06:03 AM |
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daz - "I think there is SOME credibility to the Government's claim that to present evidence in a public court against these people would compromise intelligence"
There is likely some credibility to the claim, however this Administration has a penchance for secrecy well beyond what is reasonable. It's hard to take seriously their claims. "I mean, what do you suggest we do with them (I ask that sincerely, not sarcastically)? " Why not just treat them fairly? But most importantly, make it known that we are treating them fairly. This administration has a huge perception problem because of their secrecy and unwillingness to answer any questions. Maybe they are being treated fairly, but we'd never know. We are either supposed to just flat out trust them, or assume the worst. Anybody that says "Trust me, I know what's good for you" probably doesn't. |
| #5 By 135 (208.50.206.187) at 2/12/2003 12:27:25 AM |
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By the way, I urge you read the transcripts of FDR's Fireside chats. Listen to the language as he explains the issues. He didn't dictate... he explained and provided reason.
http://www.mhric.org/fdr/fdr.html Chat 19 involves the decision for the US to enter the war, which is of particular interest. Again, listen to the language: "If you feel that your Government is not disclosing enough of the truth, you have every right to say so. But in the absence of all the facts, as revealed by official sources, you have no right in the ethics of patriotism to deal out unconfirmed reports in such a way as to make people believe that they are gospel truth. Every citizen, in every walk of life, shares this same responsibility. " It was the way things were presented, it invoked strength but also trust. He acknowledged that as an American you have the right to question your government, but he also pointed out that such questioning must be reasonable and not designed to provoke hysteria. |
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