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Microsoft's masterplan to screw phone partner - full details | |
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| Time: 11:32 EST/16:32 GMT | News Source: The Register | Posted By: Bill Roach | ||
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If Microsoft's extended family of lawyers was thinking it could now kick back and anticipate a kind of extended Spring Break for the rest of this Bush administration, the pre-Xmas filing by British phone company Sendo could yet be the cause of a few unexpected late nights. Sendo's 27-page filing in a Texas court - disclosed here for the first time - is a rich litany of double dealing, betrayal and larceny - if the dramatic (and at times apoplectic) allegations can be believed. Until November, Sendo was Microsoft's flagship phone OEM. It then announced that its four-times-delayed Z100 Stinger phone would be canned, and threw its lot in with Nokia, terminating the Microsoft agreement. | ||
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| #1 By 2138 (62.201.74.58) at 1/5/2003 2:21:23 PM |
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this sounds really fishy to me.
belto... |
| #2 By 8062 (206.72.66.205) at 1/5/2003 3:30:20 PM |
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More trash talk journalism from that English POS rag called the register.
Will these people ever get a real life? |
| #3 By 3339 (64.175.42.195) at 1/5/2003 3:48:47 PM |
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"Really. HTC, Compal, and Samsung were chump change?" Abso--freakin--lutely. Who cares about what experience (and only Samsung, and maybe not even them, had more experience than Sendo; Sendo was a new company but they were the cream of Philips and Motorola), distribution channels, and cash they had? The important thing is MS was investing capital in Sendo because Sendo was sharing their technology and IP with MS. Without them, MS was screwed. Microsoft knew dick about phones. All they had was a stripped down, new version of PocketPC. They didn't know about cellphone hardware (evidenced by buggy prototypes, ridiculously pathetic battery life, and other performance issues), they didn't know about carrier networks and integrating hardware and software with provider networks, etc... And who is the only MS carrier? Orange. And who was the largest Sendo carrier partner? Orange. Hmm, quite the coincidence.
Absolutely, Sendo was the most important cellphone partner for MS. This post was edited by sodajerk on Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 18:27. |
| #4 By 3339 (64.175.42.195) at 1/5/2003 3:55:50 PM |
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by the way, Hailstorm, how does canceling releasing the Smartphone just a week or two before release indicate something shady on their part in your mind?
It indicates to me entirely the opposite. Even though they had a product, they foresaw legal issues. Despite the risk that they were imposing on themselves by abandoning what all of their capital went to create just when it could begin to make them money, they felt it was more important for them to not carry through with the relationship and to say that MS had violated the agreement. |
| #5 By 3339 (64.175.42.195) at 1/5/2003 4:13:54 PM |
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"Sendo did have to wait awhile for Microsoft's software...yet this has not adversely affected the other WPS products."
"They stopped all development on their phone "weeks before launch", and it had been "mere weeks" away from launch for months." Exactly. MS delivered the OS (which is still buggy) over NINE MONTHS late. Sendo says much of the code they had to develop on their own... Than MS handed the other partners (who are basically just hardware manufacturers not systems integrators) the work that Sendo produced--that's why it didn't adversely affect the others. (Of which there are only three approved products (in the US), the Orange phone is buggy but the best one (and not approved in the US, I think), and for which there is not a single carrier partner yet (again, in the US; are there any others besides Orange in the rest of the world?). Oh, and the companies that are producing other Smartphones, didn't BillG ridicule them as the Seven Dwarves?) This post was edited by sodajerk on Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 17:01. |
| #6 By 3339 (64.175.42.195) at 1/5/2003 4:27:28 PM |
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Oh, and one more comment, Hailstorm, on the timeline of events. Don't you think that Sendo's abandoning the Smartphone had something to do with Marc Brown suggeting they file bankruptcy a month before? Or announcing that HTC had developed the Orange phone at about the same time, even though they had told Sendo that they weren't working with anyone else in a technology partnership? Particularly since they officially abandoned the relationship the day after Brown resigned. No, no--there can't be a connection between them thinking they were getting screwed and a Microsoft employee on their board suggesting they go bankrupt, revealing that they were secretly working with another company, and then resigning. That's exactly what any company wants from a responsible board member, right? This post was edited by sodajerk on Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 18:28. |
| #7 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 1/5/2003 7:32:11 PM |
| Microsoft didn't only have Orange as a carrier partner. They also had Cingular with which they did trials of the Smartphone and PPC Phone Edition. Later came T-Mobil. |
| #8 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 1/5/2003 7:42:25 PM |
| enforcer, MS is claiming 21 carriers. But that doesn't mean a single one of these carriers is actually packaging Smartphone devices with their plans. I may be incorrect, but I believe to this day Orange is the only carrier which allows the use of an MS Smartphone with their service plans. |
| #9 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 1/5/2003 8:00:33 PM |
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This is because, IIRC, Orange was given a limited exclusivity deal. I could be wrong on this, but I swear I remember seeing/hearing this somewhere (Grain of salt type thing unless I can find something on it).
Also, many of the US providers won't have access to SP2k2 for consumer availability until later this year. Some of the SPs recently received FCC approval (not referring to the article a few days ago concerning PPCPE devices). My point was that MS had more than one carrier provider they were partners with long before SP2k2's launch. MS regularly used Cingular in their US demos and Orange in their European demos. This still counters the Reg's claim that MS had none. |
| #10 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 1/5/2003 8:24:04 PM |
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It's a matter of semantics, enforcer. I would rather see you address the many other issues.
For example, MS said Sendo was a partner and would produce a Smartphone in August 2001. That never happened, did it? So when the Reg or I says they don't have a single carrier--I think it's perfectly logical to interpret this as true and significant. So it doesn't counter the claim--you are chosing to interpret it your own way--I would say you have clarified it. Thanks, but have you, really? As I said, MS claims to have 21 carriers. Mmm, hhmmm, that's a credible and reliable number. You claim they have three even though two of them do not provide MS phones. At the most, you (and I) have clarified a small, relatively inconsequential, piece of information. |
| #11 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 1/5/2003 8:30:30 PM |
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Found a few things:
Orange had a 12-month exclusive license on the SPV. The phone is also SIM-locked to their network to prevent its use with other providers. One of the upcomming SP2k2s from HTC is an update of the HTC Canary(SPV) phone called Tanager. There will also, of course, be phones from other manufacturers. |
| #12 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 1/5/2003 8:39:19 PM |
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Yeah, again, so what. The Samsung phone was approved by the American FCC in August. I presume it could have been approved sooner in Europe. Are you suggesting that because a phone manufacturer engaged in a short-term exclusive agreement that meant that no other phone or carrier in the world could use th Smartphone OS? I hope you aren't because that's idiotic.
So again, to clarify: to date, there is only one phone carrier which allows MS Smartphones to work on their network. This post was edited by sodajerk on Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 20:43. |
| #13 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 1/5/2003 8:45:27 PM |
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:-)
Again, I'm not saying MS has 3 carriers in total. I'm not disputing the 21 MS stated. I'm saying that the Reg article stated that at the time in question (Before Smartphone's launch/While Sendo was working on their phone), MS had no carrier partners and would not have had any had it not been for Sendo. I disproved this because during that time, and before that time with PPCPE, MS had a partnership with Cingular. I don't know how the Orange partnership came about, but there is apparent evidence that Sendo wasn't the initiator or this partnership. In the shots of the prototype phones, none of the Sendo phones are Orange branded, and they are shown using VoiceStream's network. Only the MS/TI OMAP phones are Orange branded and on their networks. I know this is highly circumstantial, but this, the product demos, and the press releases/documentation is about all I can go on until this goes to court. |
| #14 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 1/5/2003 8:48:35 PM |
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Yeah, again, so what. The Samsung phone was approved by the American FCC in August. I presume it could have been approved sooner in Europe. Are you suggesting that because a phone manufacturer engaged in a short-term exclusive agreement that meant that no other phone or carrier in the world could use th Smartphone OS? I hope you aren't because that's idiotic.
No, I'm not saying that. I remembered something involving Orange and an exclusive deal. I wanted to find out and clarify what that deal was. That's all. |
| #15 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 1/5/2003 8:55:49 PM |
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enforcer, Orange was definitely first, before Cingular and T-Mobil--so actually, we've gone full circle to the point where the Reg is right. When Orange was signed as a carrier partner, there were no other partners.
I don't give a crap about Pocket PC Phone Edition; that's not relevent--we're talking about an OS that Sendo largely developed, not a hacked piece of crap. As for your blather about prototypes and how they are branded, who gives a crap. This is pure idiocy and means nothing. As I said, the Samsung phone approved in August 2001 for American use was branded with Verizon logos. Does that mean they actually beat Orange to market and should be considered the fourth carrier? Come on, enforcer, you better than this. How the hell can you claim: "I don't know how the Orange partnership came about," and then say: "but there is apparent evidence that Sendo wasn't the initiator or this partnership." in the same sentence no less? Apparent evidence, my @ss. |
| #16 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 1/5/2003 8:59:47 PM |
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Well, I also said:
"I know this is highly circumstantial, but this, the product demos, and the press releases/documentation is about all I can go on until this goes to court." BTW, can you provide evidence that SP2k2 was largely developed by Sendo. The OS is based on Windows CE, and MS has had involvement in the mobile market before they hooked up with Sendo. |
| #17 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 1/5/2003 9:06:01 PM |
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Also, just found out that T-Mobile is launching SP2k2 in Germany in 1Q 2003.
http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2003/01/02&pages=03&seq=17 |
| #18 By 3339 (64.175.42.195) at 1/5/2003 10:05:03 PM |
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Enforcer, I don't care if you qualified it as "circumstantial"; it's just plain illogical and moronic--it doesn't even rise to "circumstantial". Because YOU personally haven't seen a prototype Sendo phone with an Orange logo on it, this is your evidence that MS didn't need Sendo to connect the Smartphone to the Orange network. That's insanely laughable!! How the hell do you find this more "apparent" (or even more like "evidence" at all) than the numerous sources citing a close relationship between Sendo and Orange and Sendo's own citing of technical meetings where MS was probing about integrating with networks, which is outside their tech agreement. Isn't that also "circumstantial" evidence?
And by the way, do you completely give up on your point that up until Orange there was not a single carrier deal? That was your point, wasn't it? |
| #19 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 1/5/2003 10:22:27 PM |
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Correct. Both are circumstantial.
I can't give much more evidence because I don't work for MS. Until this goes to court, the amount of available information is somewhat limited, and one-sided, due to most information to date comming from Sendo. RE: Orange I can't give up that point until I see proof otherwise. As yet, I haven't found anything that says Orange was first, other than being first to launch the SP2k2. BTW, does anyone know where the filing can be obtained? This post was edited by n4cer on Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 22:24. |
| #20 By 3339 (64.175.42.195) at 1/5/2003 10:45:16 PM |
| So in other words, you had no evidence to support your claim nor a reason to believe they were wrong, you just wanted to do a little FUD dance yourself and say they were wrong. Great. Great. |
| #21 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 1/5/2003 10:55:56 PM |
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Didn't you do the same? You've not exactly provided evidence to support your claims. You basically agreed with a Sendo statement as distributed by the Register, and automatically took it as proof that MS was in the wrong.
My statement about Cingular still hasn't been disproven. |
| #22 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 1/6/2003 1:08:34 PM |
| No, actually my four major posts are reiterating FACTS (I took most of my info from other sources, BBC and the Guardian, or mulitple sources) which I leave out there for people to draw their own conclusions. Yes, I find these FACTS suspicious and put the onus on Microsoft, but how many times have we been here before? Beyond that, the only speculation on my part is that Orange was the first carrier partner, but I didn't start by saying this is wrong because I belive something I made up, did I? |
| #23 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 1/6/2003 10:01:24 PM |
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Who cares? If Microsoft did to this company what they claim they did... slap 'em with a huge fine.
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